Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule

**rbinck** · 03-28-2005, 08:35 PM

I would think the fact that you can not get UHF analog on a new TV would be enough, but you could hire a tech to verify the poor antenna system, I suppose.

Another idea would be to get a Zenith Silver Sensor UHF antenna and see if that would work for you. It is an indoor unit that has had very good reports for people that are as close to the stations as you are. You can get them at Sears.

amf1932 · 03-28-2005, 08:48 PM

I was trying to avoid the hassle of trying indoor antennas, since I've never been successful in that area, and I don't want an ugly antenna displayed in my living room.
I really want to notify the building management in a professional manner and let them know what has to be done to the master antenna system so I can receive HD.

If you were writing this letter, what would you say?

Alan

**rbinck** · 03-28-2005, 08:55 PM

If you were to get an indoor antenna to prove the central system was defective, that would be a start. My experence is if you do not have factual proof of the system being defective, they will do nothing and words will not help. On the other hand if you could prove their system faulty, they still may not do anything, but at least you would know.

amf1932 · 03-28-2005, 09:57 PM

It seems that other tenants in this building with HDTV's can't receive these HD signals either, so it's definitely a problem with the master antenna.
At the moment the building management is looking into this situation, but the company that services this system sent them this reply:

" There is no special antenna for an HDTV. The antenna accepts any incoming signal and the tenants television will convert it to HDTV if he has the capability." Is this answer a joke or what?

Alan

Robbiee19 · 03-29-2005, 06:07 AM

Sorry, but they are right on the antenna for HDTV. Any antenna can get the signal and supply it to your receiver. Its the receiver that does the conversion not the antenna. But you do need a good antenna to receive the signal to supply it to the receiver, so the receiver can do its thing.

amf1932 · 03-29-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbiee19

Sorry, but they are right on the antenna for HDTV. Any antenna can get the signal and supply it to your receiver. Its the receiver that does the conversion not the antenna. But you do need a good antenna to receive the signal to supply it to the receiver, so the receiver can do its thing.

This I understand, but isn't it possible that there are problems further down the chain, such as distribution amps that use cutoff filters that attenuate the UHF signal component?
Question: Isn't it necessary to receive the UHF signal along with the VHS signal to receive HD?

BTW: There are many outdoor antenna designs today, some will pickup VHS, some will pickup UHF, and some are designed to pickup both VHS & UHF. This master antenna system NEVER gave a satisfactory UHF signal.

Alan

**rbinck** · 03-29-2005, 08:45 AM

It is quite possible that they have a VHF only antenna on the roof. It is less likely that the distribution amps would not be good for UHF. If they are the problem, most likely they are defective or unplugged.

It is also possible that your unit is disconnected from the system or there is a bad cable. It is sometimes suprising how well a cable will pass signal with a center core break.

Robbiee19 · 03-29-2005, 11:19 AM

rbinck is right. The antenna could be a VHF only. How old is the complex and when was the antenna installed. It may be a pain in the behind, but all cables and connections need to check. I know you said you don't want a indoor antenna, but it works. I have an indoor it works fine and it doesnot look that bad. Just a thouhght.

amf1932 · 03-29-2005, 10:08 PM

Can someone please answer this question?

Is it necessary to receive the UHF signal along with the VHS signal to receive HD on any one channel?

Alan

**rbinck** · 03-30-2005, 07:43 AM

If the DTV is broadcast on the UHF channel, then that is the only channel required.

RSawdey · 04-01-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

It is also possible that your unit is disconnected from the system or there is a bad cable. It is sometimes suprising how well a cable will pass signal with a center core break.

Only while it is being debugged or tested... the second you stop testing it, it will fail. Murphy's law!

UHF & VHF are just different frequency ranges of the radio spectrum. Different frequencies need different sized resonant elements, so antennas have different sizes & designs. Which is in use by any particular channel depends on the channel assignment... numbers higher than 13 (?) are UHF. When analog transmission is turned off in 20 months, many stations will move their UHF channel down to the original VHF assignment, since power bills are lower there. If I was buying an antenna, it'd get a combo for 'future' insurance.

**rbinck** · 04-01-2005, 05:38 PM

The ultimate goal is to get all DTV in the UHF band on channels 14 to 51. This will allow the VHF band channels 1-13 and the upper UHF band channels 52-69 to be reclaimed for future auction by the FCC. First will be the upper UHF band channels 52-69 followed by the VHF band channels 1-13. Here is a good article about all of this goings on with the whys and wherefores:
http://www.r-vcr.com/~television/TV/Lost.htm

Also check out this Power Point Presentation:
(H)DTV and the Broadband Digital Migration

Nu2HD · 04-04-2005, 09:06 PM

Background
I recently purchased an HD "ready" TV, haven't received yet, and want to get OTA transmissions. I'm not planning on getting Cable or Satelite receivers.

Questions:
Should I be looking at a receiver that only receives HD OTA transmissions (does this exist)?
Do cable/ satelite HD receivers pick-up OTA transmissions? (with antenna)
Which receivers should I be looking at and where can I get them?

Thanks,
2Nu2getit

slowmo · 04-05-2005, 09:32 AM

Yes, there are stand-alone HD OTA tuners. Several current choices include:

LG LST-4200A - approx. $250-300. Has both NTSC (analog) and ATSC (digital) tuners as well as QAM (free digital cable if available in your area).

LG LST-3510 - approx. $350-400. Includes the HD OTA tuner as well as a progressive scan DVD player.

Samsung SIRT-451 - approx. $250. Has ATSC and QAM tuners.

Most (if not all) cable boxes do not include an OTA HD tuner. Most (if not all) satellite HD boxes do include an OTA HD tuner.

Starting to see OTA HD tuners integrated with HD DVR (LG LST 3410). $800 - $1,000. Certain limitations.

If you're not planning to use cable or satellite, I'd go with the 451 or 4200 (unless you also need a dvd player as well).

RSawdey · 04-05-2005, 11:03 AM

Note the OTA tuners in the Sat STBs from Dish or VOOM will NOT work without a subscription. DirecTV will, after changing the setup.

04-01-2005, 05:38 PM	#27
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	The ultimate goal is to get all DTV in the UHF band on channels 14 to 51. This will allow the VHF band channels 1-13 and the upper UHF band channels 52-69 to be reclaimed for future auction by the FCC. First will be the upper UHF band channels 52-69 followed by the VHF band channels 1-13. Here is a good article about all of this goings on with the whys and wherefores: http://www.r-vcr.com/~television/TV/Lost.htm Also check out this Power Point Presentation: (H)DTV and the Broadband Digital Migration Last edited by rbinck; 04-01-2005 at 05:45 PM.

04-04-2005, 09:06 PM	#28
Nu2HD What is HD? Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	Receiver recommendations? Background I recently purchased an HD "ready" TV, haven't received yet, and want to get OTA transmissions. I'm not planning on getting Cable or Satelite receivers. Questions: Should I be looking at a receiver that only receives HD OTA transmissions (does this exist)? Do cable/ satelite HD receivers pick-up OTA transmissions? (with antenna) Which receivers should I be looking at and where can I get them? Thanks, 2Nu2getit

03-28-2005, 08:35 PM	#16
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	I would think the fact that you can not get UHF analog on a new TV would be enough, but you could hire a tech to verify the poor antenna system, I suppose. Another idea would be to get a Zenith Silver Sensor UHF antenna and see if that would work for you. It is an indoor unit that has had very good reports for people that are as close to the stations as you are. You can get them at Sears.

03-28-2005, 08:48 PM	#17
amf1932 Sony 52" XBR4 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 546	I was trying to avoid the hassle of trying indoor antennas, since I've never been successful in that area, and I don't want an ugly antenna displayed in my living room. I really want to notify the building management in a professional manner and let them know what has to be done to the master antenna system so I can receive HD. If you were writing this letter, what would you say? Alan

03-28-2005, 08:55 PM	#18
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	If you were to get an indoor antenna to prove the central system was defective, that would be a start. My experence is if you do not have factual proof of the system being defective, they will do nothing and words will not help. On the other hand if you could prove their system faulty, they still may not do anything, but at least you would know.

03-28-2005, 09:57 PM	#19
amf1932 Sony 52" XBR4 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 546	It seems that other tenants in this building with HDTV's can't receive these HD signals either, so it's definitely a problem with the master antenna. At the moment the building management is looking into this situation, but the company that services this system sent them this reply: " There is no special antenna for an HDTV. The antenna accepts any incoming signal and the tenants television will convert it to HDTV if he has the capability." Is this answer a joke or what? Alan

03-29-2005, 06:07 AM	#20
Robbiee19 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 51	Sorry, but they are right on the antenna for HDTV. Any antenna can get the signal and supply it to your receiver. Its the receiver that does the conversion not the antenna. But you do need a good antenna to receive the signal to supply it to the receiver, so the receiver can do its thing.

03-29-2005, 08:45 AM	#22
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	It is quite possible that they have a VHF only antenna on the roof. It is less likely that the distribution amps would not be good for UHF. If they are the problem, most likely they are defective or unplugged. It is also possible that your unit is disconnected from the system or there is a bad cable. It is sometimes suprising how well a cable will pass signal with a center core break.

03-29-2005, 11:19 AM	#23
Robbiee19 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 51	rbinck is right. The antenna could be a VHF only. How old is the complex and when was the antenna installed. It may be a pain in the behind, but all cables and connections need to check. I know you said you don't want a indoor antenna, but it works. I have an indoor it works fine and it doesnot look that bad. Just a thouhght.

03-29-2005, 10:08 PM	#24
amf1932 Sony 52" XBR4 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 546	Can someone please answer this question? Is it necessary to receive the UHF signal along with the VHS signal to receive HD on any one channel? Alan

03-30-2005, 07:43 AM	#25
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,338	If the DTV is broadcast on the UHF channel, then that is the only channel required.

04-05-2005, 09:32 AM	#29
slowmo High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 759	Yes, there are stand-alone HD OTA tuners. Several current choices include: LG LST-4200A - approx. $250-300. Has both NTSC (analog) and ATSC (digital) tuners as well as QAM (free digital cable if available in your area). LG LST-3510 - approx. $350-400. Includes the HD OTA tuner as well as a progressive scan DVD player. Samsung SIRT-451 - approx. $250. Has ATSC and QAM tuners. Most (if not all) cable boxes do not include an OTA HD tuner. Most (if not all) satellite HD boxes do include an OTA HD tuner. Starting to see OTA HD tuners integrated with HD DVR (LG LST 3410). $800 - $1,000. Certain limitations. If you're not planning to use cable or satellite, I'd go with the 451 or 4200 (unless you also need a dvd player as well).

04-05-2005, 11:03 AM	#30
RSawdey Mr. Wizard Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ferndale, Michigan Age: 61 Posts: 5,981	Note the OTA tuners in the Sat STBs from Dish or VOOM will NOT work without a subscription. DirecTV will, after changing the setup.