Antenna & Signal Issues

chaaur · 11-24-2006, 09:32 PM

The signal strength as displayed on my Sony SXRD Antenna Diagnostics screen constantly ranges from a locked 81 to unlocked 41 this is the situation on the four major networks, the numbers listed above are NBC local channel 3.1.
I have two CM 4228 installed vertically, combined by 300 ohm to a Terrestrial Digital Pre-Amp PA-16 and RG 6 to the set. These antennas are installed 25 feet above the ground. (I have 100 feet of tower to erect to whatever height is required & a HyGain Ham IV controller and rotor to install on the tower.)
I live in a hollow in St. Albans, WV 25177, GPS N38.20.434 / W81.52.807. The view to the north & south are obstructed by mountains. The feet above MSL 707.
If you believe these antennas are adequate, what pre-amp would you suggest to combine these antennas at the mast and any other suggestions you might have. My interest is in a digital signal only.

Thank you in advance,
Charlie

Rick0725 · 11-25-2006, 09:31 AM

-It is very tricky installing a 2 antenna setup.

-combine the 2 uhf antennas through an antenna combiner using equal lengths of 75 ohm RG6 coax from antenna balums to the combiner. Would rather not use 300 ohm wire.

-your stations are close by and the preamp chosen is most likely overloading your system. once your system is installed at more height, the stations should fall into place.

-I would prefer not to install 2 cm4228's on a tower. way too much weight and windload. would prefer a lighter weight setup like 2 antennas direct 91xg's mounted horizontally about 40" apart.

uhf WCHS-DT 8.1 ABC CHARLESTON WV 303° 4.4 41
uhf WVAH-DT 11.1 FOX CHARLESTON WV 303° 4.4 19
uhf WSAZ-DT 3.1 NBC HUNTINGTON WV 300° 22.9 23
uhf WLPX-DT 29.1 i CHARLESTON WV 32° 6.9 39
uhf WOWK-DT 13.1 CBS HUNTINGTON WV 300° 22.2 47

I would start by reengineering your combination setup, go higher, try without a preamp direct line to a tuner, and go from there.

Also check your analog signal to get your "bearings. Is it snowy, ghosty, etc. and peak and tweak from there.

The geography of your area is going to present some challenges to reception.

The winegard hdp269 preamp would be a better choice of preamp from your distances from towers if you need one.

toejam · 12-05-2006, 12:18 PM

chaaur, did you have no luck with one 4228, or did you just start with two durring initial setup. maybe your dual setup is hurting you. iam trying 2 91xg and found that 2 vertical is worse than one. there is a way to do it but iam still messing around with them. i wanted to do the 2 4228 but the weight would be overwhelming.

Rick0725 · 12-05-2006, 03:16 PM

The two 91 xg's should be mounted side to side about 40" apart and not stacked on top of each other

toejam · 12-05-2006, 06:03 PM

i did post a thread on some advise on how to combine two antennas but no answers yet, i see alot of pictures with vertical stacks as well as horizontal. vertical i tried knowing that its much easier to mount to a mast, horizontal is a matter of teeing off the mast wich i did. i constructed a steel bracket to hold both masts, but then last week there were storms that brought winds and stood the both antennas into the air. the mounting brackets from antenna direct are weak i broke the one already trying to tighted it so it wouldnt swing around in the wind. i had them 44 inches apart and at first worked well, but since then couldnt get them to do anything. so iam back to one on a sigle mast. its hard to mount both antennas on a pole so that there perfect in length and tilt. so you think around 40 inches and what about the tilt or is that a matter of trial and error. y doesnt anyone make a setup for this type of configuration?

Rick0725 · 12-05-2006, 09:21 PM

would not be concerned about tilt. You need the system to be stable and would be careful when planning heigth. would suggest heavy duty masting (16ga) which is sold at ratio shack.

here a couple things to read. the stacking kit and phase harness is the most important part of the install. I like the idea of the fiberglass boom.

http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod...tenna_boom.htm

http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod..._harnesses.htm

http://www.bobmerritt.com/dtv/dtv.htm

toejam · 12-06-2006, 12:11 PM

i will get the hardware i need and try again this weekend and let you know how it goes. i would like to try the fiberglass boom but 40 bucks, does he hand make them. lol i wonder if pvc would be strong enough, maybe treated wood.

toejam · 12-07-2006, 03:14 PM

rick with the 91xgs what would be a nice vhf antenna to go with this setup?

tigerbangs · 12-07-2006, 05:11 PM

If you need VHF, the best VHF only antennas these days are mde by
Wade-Delhi: You might want to consider a VIP-306 or a VIP-305 to go with those XG-91's

http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/VIP...20Antennas.pdf

toejam · 12-07-2006, 07:13 PM

They have a few dealers in Pa, so i can call and c if they have those models. what price range are they in, i still have to upgrade my 1 year old, dead, piece of garbage cm rotar with a hy-gaine or something of better quality. that antenna looks like death to any cm rotar. y is wade-delhi hard to buy, they need a online market.

tigerbangs · 12-07-2006, 08:05 PM

I agree that the Wade-Delhi antenas are hard to find: they are a Canadian company, and while their products are good, their marketing stinks. The antennas were originally branded Jerrold, and were made in Pennsylvania years ago, so they still have a good following in most of PA. Expect to spend about $150.00 or so for a VIP-306SR and maybe $15.00 to $25.00 less for the VIP-305SR. If they charge you anything more than that, move on! As for a suitable rotator, look at the Hy-Gain AR-40

http://www.hy-gain.com

toejam · 12-08-2006, 10:11 AM

Lafayette Electronic Supply Lafayette, IN (765) 447-9660 i hope its ok to say that, wade-delhi can be ordered and shipped ups from there warehouse.

vip-305sr out of stock, can be ordered from canada with a 20.00 fee
vip-306sr is 200.00 plus shipping
vip-307sr is 270.00 plus shipping

11-24-2006, 09:32 PM	#1
chaaur What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	Antenna & Signal Issues The signal strength as displayed on my Sony SXRD Antenna Diagnostics screen constantly ranges from a locked 81 to unlocked 41 this is the situation on the four major networks, the numbers listed above are NBC local channel 3.1. I have two CM 4228 installed vertically, combined by 300 ohm to a Terrestrial Digital Pre-Amp PA-16 and RG 6 to the set. These antennas are installed 25 feet above the ground. (I have 100 feet of tower to erect to whatever height is required & a HyGain Ham IV controller and rotor to install on the tower.) I live in a hollow in St. Albans, WV 25177, GPS N38.20.434 / W81.52.807. The view to the north & south are obstructed by mountains. The feet above MSL 707. If you believe these antennas are adequate, what pre-amp would you suggest to combine these antennas at the mast and any other suggestions you might have. My interest is in a digital signal only. Thank you in advance, Charlie

11-25-2006, 09:31 AM	#2
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	-It is very tricky installing a 2 antenna setup. -combine the 2 uhf antennas through an antenna combiner using equal lengths of 75 ohm RG6 coax from antenna balums to the combiner. Would rather not use 300 ohm wire. -your stations are close by and the preamp chosen is most likely overloading your system. once your system is installed at more height, the stations should fall into place. -I would prefer not to install 2 cm4228's on a tower. way too much weight and windload. would prefer a lighter weight setup like 2 antennas direct 91xg's mounted horizontally about 40" apart. uhf WCHS-DT 8.1 ABC CHARLESTON WV 303° 4.4 41 uhf WVAH-DT 11.1 FOX CHARLESTON WV 303° 4.4 19 uhf WSAZ-DT 3.1 NBC HUNTINGTON WV 300° 22.9 23 uhf WLPX-DT 29.1 i CHARLESTON WV 32° 6.9 39 uhf WOWK-DT 13.1 CBS HUNTINGTON WV 300° 22.2 47 I would start by reengineering your combination setup, go higher, try without a preamp direct line to a tuner, and go from there. Also check your analog signal to get your "bearings. Is it snowy, ghosty, etc. and peak and tweak from there. The geography of your area is going to present some challenges to reception. The winegard hdp269 preamp would be a better choice of preamp from your distances from towers if you need one. Last edited by Rick0725; 11-25-2006 at 09:38 AM.

12-07-2006, 05:11 PM	#9
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	If you need VHF, the best VHF only antennas these days are mde by Wade-Delhi: You might want to consider a VIP-306 or a VIP-305 to go with those XG-91's http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/VIP...20Antennas.pdf __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

12-07-2006, 08:05 PM	#11
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	I agree that the Wade-Delhi antenas are hard to find: they are a Canadian company, and while their products are good, their marketing stinks. The antennas were originally branded Jerrold, and were made in Pennsylvania years ago, so they still have a good following in most of PA. Expect to spend about $150.00 or so for a VIP-306SR and maybe $15.00 to $25.00 less for the VIP-305SR. If they charge you anything more than that, move on! As for a suitable rotator, look at the Hy-Gain AR-40 http://www.hy-gain.com __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

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12-05-2006, 12:18 PM	#3
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	chaaur, did you have no luck with one 4228, or did you just start with two durring initial setup. maybe your dual setup is hurting you. iam trying 2 91xg and found that 2 vertical is worse than one. there is a way to do it but iam still messing around with them. i wanted to do the 2 4228 but the weight would be overwhelming.

12-05-2006, 03:16 PM	#4
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	The two 91 xg's should be mounted side to side about 40" apart and not stacked on top of each other

12-05-2006, 06:03 PM	#5
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	i did post a thread on some advise on how to combine two antennas but no answers yet, i see alot of pictures with vertical stacks as well as horizontal. vertical i tried knowing that its much easier to mount to a mast, horizontal is a matter of teeing off the mast wich i did. i constructed a steel bracket to hold both masts, but then last week there were storms that brought winds and stood the both antennas into the air. the mounting brackets from antenna direct are weak i broke the one already trying to tighted it so it wouldnt swing around in the wind. i had them 44 inches apart and at first worked well, but since then couldnt get them to do anything. so iam back to one on a sigle mast. its hard to mount both antennas on a pole so that there perfect in length and tilt. so you think around 40 inches and what about the tilt or is that a matter of trial and error. y doesnt anyone make a setup for this type of configuration?

12-05-2006, 09:21 PM	#6
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	would not be concerned about tilt. You need the system to be stable and would be careful when planning heigth. would suggest heavy duty masting (16ga) which is sold at ratio shack. here a couple things to read. the stacking kit and phase harness is the most important part of the install. I like the idea of the fiberglass boom. http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod...tenna_boom.htm http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod..._harnesses.htm http://www.bobmerritt.com/dtv/dtv.htm

12-06-2006, 12:11 PM	#7
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	i will get the hardware i need and try again this weekend and let you know how it goes. i would like to try the fiberglass boom but 40 bucks, does he hand make them. lol i wonder if pvc would be strong enough, maybe treated wood.

12-07-2006, 03:14 PM	#8
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	rick with the 91xgs what would be a nice vhf antenna to go with this setup?

12-07-2006, 07:13 PM	#10
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	They have a few dealers in Pa, so i can call and c if they have those models. what price range are they in, i still have to upgrade my 1 year old, dead, piece of garbage cm rotar with a hy-gaine or something of better quality. that antenna looks like death to any cm rotar. y is wade-delhi hard to buy, they need a online market.

12-08-2006, 10:11 AM	#12
toejam Buell Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 39	Lafayette Electronic Supply Lafayette, IN (765) 447-9660 i hope its ok to say that, wade-delhi can be ordered and shipped ups from there warehouse. vip-305sr out of stock, can be ordered from canada with a 20.00 fee vip-306sr is 200.00 plus shipping vip-307sr is 270.00 plus shipping