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Better than AntennaWeb. All you need to know about your local OTA stations.

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Old 10-12-2006, 09:37 AM   #1
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Default Better than AntennaWeb. All you need to know about your local OTA stations.

This is a complete 'How To' use the site '2150.com':

I've done this many times for individuals that are having issues receiving stations or have no idea what/where they are or even if they are within range.
It's too bad AntennaWeb always gets referenced. It's no doubt for it's 'simplified' interface. I find it VERY lacking, failing for these reasons:
1. Most that come to an internet forum are not your average 'joe sixpack' and can comprehend something better then just simple color charts.
2. No idea how/where those results come from.
3. It gives you no data for transmitter output or antenna height which tells you nothing.
4. It is sponsored by the CEA which is only in the business to sell you something.
There also is a site called TVFool. The results are graphs and pie charts, but they are way too small, cluttered and hard to read. The site substitutes computer modeled speculation for actual ERP and HAAT data. There's too many variables involved to bother guessing received signal levels.

Just a few initial steps are all that is needed to have a far superior list for your local stations. It even includes Canada, where that 'other' site doesn't seem to know the country exists.

Step 1; Go here and enter your zip code, then click 'search' (it will give your approximate coordinates);
http://geocoder.ibegin.com/geolive.php?view=auto

Step 2; Do a copy/paste of those coordinates watching exactly what you copy. Include the '-' in the longitude with no spaces before either number and then go here;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

Step 3; Select how you want the search to be configured. Choose the distance you want to cover and be sure to check "Include Expired Records" and "Include Construction Permits"! I check also "By distance".

Step 4; To be really accurate you need to find the magnetic declination of you location. A zip code should is sufficient. The results now include a map with a compass showing magnetic north and true north;
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp

Step 5; Click on "Compute Declination" and do a C&P to the space provided at the 2150 site (default is -13.25) and click on "Show Stations".

Step 6; If you are satisfied with the results you can 'save' this list as a bookmark by clicking on the "Bookmark this link to save this report" link which will bring up another window. This way, all you have to do is refer back to this bookmark (after you saved it in your bookmarks) and all your data is there.

Notes;
Column 3; Channel, the first is the actual digital channel, the one in () is the original analog number. Unfortunately, this doesn't show if the station will be reverting back to their original channel (as of yet).
Column 10; HAAT (Height Above Average Terrain) this isn't just the tower height, but a combination of that height and the average elevation of the surrounding area. ERP (Effective Radiated Power) is not the transmitter output, but the combined gain and loss of the system.
Column 11; The circle with the dot in the center is the transmitter location, NOT your location! Where that red line meets the outer circle is YOU!
Aim your antenna at the center.
Column 12; If you click on that image, it will show you a map of the transmitter location. Please note, the city stated for the licenesse is rarely where the xmitter is actually located. Some may be 30 miles away.

Hope this helps................
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Last edited by rbinck; 01-14-2009 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Per videobruce's request
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Old 10-19-2006, 08:07 PM   #2
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Am I missing something - it does not list the major networks. ABC, NBC, and CBS are MIA
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:46 PM   #3
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It's a useful site but the database is so out of date, many stations don't appear at all, possibly because the database still has them at low power or the temporary operating license in the database has passed its expiry date.
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Old 10-20-2006, 05:31 AM   #4
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The database is from the FCC. If there are errors compalin to them. The FCC is well know for outdated data. There are stations listed that haven't been on the air for a decade. This applies for 2-way licences also. Been that way for as long as I remember.

kierandill; It would help if you let us know where you are. Latitude & longitude or at least town and/or zip code.

As example, here is the data from downtown Buffalo (actually City Hall);
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations
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Last edited by videobruce; 10-20-2006 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 10-20-2006, 06:00 AM   #5
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antennaweb is easier.
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Old 10-20-2006, 06:28 AM   #6
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So is looking at 3rd grade reading material with all the pretty colors.
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Old 10-20-2006, 10:22 AM   #7
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Tried it, it shows many stations I can't get, while refusing to show stations that I receive at 90+ percent. Contains no info that can't be obtained from the FCC website, plus the FCC website is easier to use.


http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

Other than that it is great.

PS I have two Master's degrees, and I prefer Antennaweb so lay off the "third grade" ad hominem attacks.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
So is looking at 3rd grade reading material with all the pretty colors.

Your clever. I'm sorry my opinion is different from yours.
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
kierandill; It would help if you let us know where you are. Latitude & longitude or at least town and/or zip code.

As example, here is the data from downtown Buffalo (actually City Hall);
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations
I live in Lafayette, IN and I plug in my Lat/Lon and 100 mile radius. I get plenty of stations in the search results, many of which are further than Indy, but none of the major networks in Indy. PBS is the only significant Indy station that shows up. Yet I can receive all the major networks from Indy on my current OTA setup.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:07 AM   #10
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If you check the expired records item it will include all your stations.

It seems the FCC database is awaiting being updated from the hundreds of permits that expired in early October. Since this site pulls it's data directly from the FCC database, it is as wrong as the FCC database is.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:16 AM   #11
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Prefer the map (all on 1 page) in antennaweb listing the direction of all available channels with corrected compass direction.

If you want to broaden the search add heigth.

Ran and printed this map yesterday and realized I was off with antenna direction with several towers. used this as a tool to program the rotor correctly.

There is confusion out there concerning compass direct. It is good to have corrected bearings (magnetic north vs true north). My deviation is 13 degrees and that is alot in the general scheem of things.

It does help to know how to use a compass though.

A: 34, 66
B: 7, 7.1, 16, 16.1, 50, 56, 56
C: 18, 23.1
D: 11, 20, 41, 53, 59
E: 2, 2.1, 49
F: 20.1, 27
G: 29
H: 15
I: 9, 9.1
J: 3, 3.1, 5, 12, 12.1, 24, 24.1, 26, 34, 34.1, 40, 40.1, 46, 46.1, 47.1
K: 11, 14, 19.1, 43, 44.1, 51, 68
L: 7, 16
M: 18, 18.1, 20, 36, 55
N: 39, 48
O: 20, 60
P: 26
Q: 8, 8.1, 10, 10.1, 13, 13.1, 15, 21, 21.1, 31, 31.1, 38, 40, 42
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Last edited by Rick0725; 10-22-2006 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:14 AM   #12
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Default Is a db8 that much better than a db4?

I live in zip code 14113. I have a roof mount and a db6 cable (from an unsuccessfult hughesnet attempt). I've checked the attennaweb.org site and the 2150.com site and it APPEARS I can get all my locals OTA. I currently only have a 10 dollar set of rabbit ears that will pull in abc, nbc, cbs but I want to get my fox affilate (ch 29) and a few others.

Would a DB4 or a CM 42 something be my best option? I don't think I need (or want) a rotor.

Thanks,
Rich

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rabbit ears from AJ Wright

Last edited by NJRich; 03-13-2007 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick0725
Prefer the map (all on 1 page) in antennaweb listing the direction of all available channels with corrected compass direction.

If you want to broaden the search add heigth.

Ran and printed this map yesterday and realized I was off with antenna direction with several towers. used this as a tool to program the rotor correctly.

There is confusion out there concerning compass direct. It is good to have corrected bearings (magnetic north vs true north). My deviation is 13 degrees and that is alot in the general scheem of things.

It does help to know how to use a compass though.

A: 34, 66
B: 7, 7.1, 16, 16.1, 50, 56, 56
C: 18, 23.1
D: 11, 20, 41, 53, 59
E: 2, 2.1, 49
F: 20.1, 27
G: 29
H: 15
I: 9, 9.1
J: 3, 3.1, 5, 12, 12.1, 24, 24.1, 26, 34, 34.1, 40, 40.1, 46, 46.1, 47.1
K: 11, 14, 19.1, 43, 44.1, 51, 68
L: 7, 16
M: 18, 18.1, 20, 36, 55
N: 39, 48
O: 20, 60
P: 26
Q: 8, 8.1, 10, 10.1, 13, 13.1, 15, 21, 21.1, 31, 31.1, 38, 40, 42
Hey Ricky-Roo

So antennaweb.org adjusts for magnetic declination? For me it says to shoot at 20 deg. compass orientation. But, my delcination is -14deg. So where should I be shooting? 6 deg.???
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:24 PM   #14
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first off you need to enter your address and find the address on the map that pops up. then the listing of channels comes up. you then click on the tab to display the street level map, compass, and direction of stations. if the map still is not right you need to get your bearings again by pointing the cursor to the correct spot.

The map at antenna web shows the distribution of stations around your address. When installing an antenna, you should point your antenna or align your antenna's rotor system to point in the direction of the stations of interest.

The compass arrow in the lower left can help match the orientations on the "Stations" page to the map: the compass arrow shows the direction of magnetic North.

I print the map sometimes, match the bearings to the street, place the map under the antenna and aim in that direction. gets you in the ball park.

DEF are the utica station east

the syracuse stations are south O-I

and the B station is the ch 56 I always talk about with the jointenna

I added height to get more stations in the map you posted

The direction in which a compass needle points is known as magnetic north. In general, this is not exactly the direction of the North Magnetic Pole (or of any other consistent location). Instead, the compass aligns itself to the local geomagnetic field, which varies in a complex manner over the Earth's surface, as well as over time.

The angular difference between magnetic north and true north (defined in reference to the Geographic North Pole), at any particular location on the Earth's surface, is called the magnetic declination. Most map coordinate systems are based on true north, and magnetic declination is often shown on map legends so that the direction of true north can be determined from north as indicated by a compass.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/ge.../magnetic.html

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/old/lesson3.html

Last edited by Rick0725; 03-13-2007 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeerHunter
Hey Ricky-Roo

So antennaweb.org adjusts for magnetic declination? For me it says to shoot at 20 deg. compass orientation. But, my delcination is -14deg. So where should I be shooting? 6 deg.???
It depends on how you determine north. If you use a compass, the Antennaweb direction is correct in reference to north on the compass. If you use a topo map to reference a landmark or walk the line with a GPS; use 6 degrees.
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