A Discussion On HDTV OTA Reception

jim5506 · 12-04-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjcx

well, i wonder will it be a difference when connect the antenna(OTA) to the HDTV set top box?? because i'm living in the apartment, the normal anolog TV often receive "snowy" pictures from the free-to-air channels. when connected to the digital HDTV ready LCD TV 32", the appearance of those "snowy" pictures become worst. so i thought if i got the HDTV set top box, will it make any differences?? do i need additional antenna?? i'm getting quite confuse whether it's the antenna problem or i just need the set top box.

i hope someone here can reply me! thanx heaps!!

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If your analog is fuzzy, the digital will probably be zero.

The first thing you need to do is determine which digital channels are available. Look at www.antennaweb.org and input your exact street address and zipcode. This lists all your channels. Click the digital radio button on the result screen to see the digitals (they have a * next to them). From this you can see how far away the stations are, which direction and get an estimate of which antenna you need for decent reception.

OOPS - YOU ARE IN AUSTRALIA... NEVER MIND!

The basic digital reception rules are bigger and higher is better. Are your digitals VHF or UHF? I am not familiar with Australian digital.

For Deep fringe UHF reception, a multi-bay (8) bow-tie type antenna (Channel Master 4228) with a low noise/high dB amplifier (Channel Master 7777) on at least a 30 ft. mast is minimal.

RSawdey · 12-04-2005, 02:30 PM

Unfortunately, AntennaWeb doesn't even work for Canada, let alone Oz... and since he's an apartment dweller, he probably has little to say about the antenna system.

One thing that's international... unless you're VERY close to the transmitters (less than 20 miles) an indoor antenna won't work well... although it would give you the option to repoint - which the roof won't. Direction is important to avoid 'multipath' (reflections, they cause 'ghosts' on analog).

One thing about digital (both pro & con) is that IF you get an image it will be perfect... but that also means if you can't get a perfect image you won't get anything. If you were in an ATSC country, I'd say get a receiver with the latest Zenith chip, but Australia uses DVB standard - and with 8 MHz wide channels instead of the 6 MHz used in North America & Europe.

Sorry we're not more helpful, best of luck...

xjcx · 12-07-2005, 03:39 AM

jim5506 & rsawdey!!!! thanx so much for replying me!!

))

u guys are so technical!! i don't know anything much about tv antenna and stuff. i'm trying to discover it and the more info i read through the more confuse i become.

yea, got the fuzzy or snowy images when the tv analog is connected to the supplied antenna (from the wall and out to the roof - i guess since i live in the apartment, there would be the satelite dish up the roof)

basically, i know its UHF reception (if i'm not wrong) and the one thing i would like to know is, buying the HDTV set top box, can i still view the channels without the fuzzy or snowy images on the LCD TV??

bill2975 · 12-07-2005, 11:36 PM

I live in Reno and am able to get most of the local channels digitally with a big old (20+ years) Winegard antenna mounted in the attic (we can get big winds here, and I thought I would see if I could avoid hanging it outside). I'm running a Radio Shack amplifier right next to the antenna, or the reception would be much worse than it is.

A problem is that some of the local transmitting antennas here are 150 degrees apart relative to my home, and the transmitting power of stations like NBC seems pretty weak compared to bigger places. Is there a way to use a second antenna, and then point each at the right set of target antennas and then combine the two antenna signals before feeding them into the Hughes HD-DVR I'm using for HD?

Or is there a better solution so that we can get NBC in high-def?

Or should I wait for DirecTV to go high-def on local stations? <grin>

Thanks in advance for any advice.

bill2975

Yaamon · 12-08-2005, 08:08 AM

Bill what you should do is then consider a channel master 4228 its 40" high by 20" turning radius and mount it in your attic with the channel master rotor.

If that antenna is too big try the smaller 4221 that is 40" high by 10" turning radius and maybe a preamp with of course a rotor.

The chanel master rotor are now wireless and you can program in up to 69 channels or just direct access by compass position.

A very nice feature. OTA has a much better signal then what Directv can deliver to you. OTA are a uncompressed full bandwith signal either 1920x1080i or 1280x720p.

Directv reduces and compress the HD signals so that it's no longer 1920x1080i its 1280x1080i. That is why they look soft compared to dishnetwork.

Dishnetwork has ripped off Voom HD customers and reduced the bandwidth like that Directv has done.

Now all of Voom channels are 1280x1080i. Please send email to dish complaining about the picture quality. Since the change the picture has lost much of the detail and I can see some digital artifact at times.

The premium HD so far are still 1920x1080i like Hbo, Showtime Discover, HD, Espn at 1280x720p etc.

sasteel · 12-08-2005, 11:36 AM

Without getting too technical, combining UHF antennas aimed in different directions will reduce the signal as compared to using one antenna and rotating it. Antennas aimed in different directions can be combined further down the line when adequate isolation of each has been provided (as they do in your local cable company). Go with the CM 4228 and rotor as mentioned in the previous response if you can.

Colonel Mac · 12-08-2005, 10:07 PM

Hi all, just joined this forum and haven't had a chance to read many of the posts, but I do have a question. Live in Peachtree City, Georgia (30269) and desire an outdoor antenna for HD broadcasts. Have DirecTV going through an HD DVR. Only problem is that due to some legal mumbo jumbo we can't receive network broadcasts in HD as long as it goes through the HD DVR. So, outdoor antenna. We are between 25 - 35 miles from all of the desired stations and it looks like they are generally in the same direction. The question is, if money is not a matter (within reason, of course) which is the best antenna and what accessorries, if any, should accompany it (preamp, etc). We live in a two story home and other than a few tall pines there is not much to obstruct a signal. Also, if placed at the highest point there will be about a 50 -60 ft cable run... how will this affect things and how can we address this run if it is a problem?

Thanks for any assistance.

bill2975 · 12-13-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

Bill what you should do is then consider a channel master 4228 its 40" high by 20" turning radius and mount it in your attic with the channel master rotor.

If that antenna is too big try the smaller 4221 that is 40" high by 10" turning radius and maybe a preamp with of course a rotor.

The chanel master rotor are now wireless and you can program in up to 69 channels or just direct access by compass position.

Thanks for the reply, Yaamon. I think I'll look into trying the 4221 and see how well it works.

Bill

srrobinson2 · 01-24-2006, 03:27 PM

Antenna rotor doesn't do much good for an HD DVR.... What other options are available in that circumstance.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

Bill what you should do is then consider a channel master 4228 its 40" high by 20" turning radius and mount it in your attic with the channel master rotor.

If that antenna is too big try the smaller 4221 that is 40" high by 10" turning radius and maybe a preamp with of course a rotor.

The chanel master rotor are now wireless and you can program in up to 69 channels or just direct access by compass position.

A very nice feature. OTA has a much better signal then what Directv can deliver to you. OTA are a uncompressed full bandwith signal either 1920x1080i or 1280x720p.

Directv reduces and compress the HD signals so that it's no longer 1920x1080i its 1280x1080i. That is why they look soft compared to dishnetwork.

Dishnetwork has ripped off Voom HD customers and reduced the bandwidth like that Directv has done.

Now all of Voom channels are 1280x1080i. Please send email to dish complaining about the picture quality. Since the change the picture has lost much of the detail and I can see some digital artifact at times.

The premium HD so far are still 1920x1080i like Hbo, Showtime Discover, HD, Espn at 1280x720p etc.

alphanguy · 02-03-2006, 07:48 PM

I have decided to stay with my SD television, but eventually, I know I will need to have an ATSC tuner to recieve OTA broadcast. Is there such a thing as a VCR that has an ATSC tuner built into it? If so, will this work? I'm dissapointed with my DISH local feeds, and am wondering if digital OTA on SD tv will look better. currently, the analog isn't bad, but my antenna is aging, and am going to need to replace soon. any recommendations appreciated.

hphocl · 02-04-2006, 10:50 PM

I have been searching the net and have not found anyone having this issue. I recently got Directtv HD with the off air antenna, I live in 45011 (butler county ohio). I get all of the local HD channels during the day (5.1, 9.1, 12.1, 5.2, 9.2, etc.). At night, however, I lose channel 9 (9.1 and 9.2). I lose the station sometime between 6 and 8. During the day, the signal varries around 60%. At night, its between 0 and 5%. I have tried adjusting (aiming) the antenna - even to the piont of calling the station to ask where their tower is so I can use a compass to help zero in on the tower. The tower is roughly 18 miles from my house and I have an outdoor antenna. The only issue I maybe foresee is the antenna is mounted on the garage roof so maybe the signal is bouncing off the second floor exterior wall. The wall is behind the antenna about 6', but not totally perpendicular to the antenna.

I tried to call directtv and a tech can come out but I worry since this is an 'evening thing' it will work for the tech.

**rbinck** · 02-05-2006, 12:09 AM

I know some radio stations have to cut their power at night, but
I've never heard of a TV station having to, but there is always a first for everything. When you called the station, you didn't ask that question, did you?

Tower Guy · 02-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hphocl

I have been searching the net and have not found anyone having this issue. I recently got Directtv HD with the off air antenna, I live in 45011 (butler county ohio). I get all of the local HD channels during the day (5.1, 9.1, 12.1, 5.2, 9.2, etc.). At night, however, I lose channel 9 (9.1 and 9.2). I lose the station sometime between 6 and 8. During the day, the signal varries around 60%. At night, its between 0 and 5%. I have tried adjusting (aiming) the antenna - even to the piont of calling the station to ask where their tower is so I can use a compass to help zero in on the tower. The tower is roughly 18 miles from my house and I have an outdoor antenna. The only issue I maybe foresee is the antenna is mounted on the garage roof so maybe the signal is bouncing off the second floor exterior wall. The wall is behind the antenna about 6', but not totally perpendicular to the antenna.

I tried to call directtv and a tech can come out but I worry since this is an 'evening thing' it will work for the tech.

It could be caused by interference from a piece of equipment that is only turned on between 6 and 8. It could be in either your house or a neighbors house. 9.1 is actually on channel 10. Channel 10 just happens to be the second harmonic of an FM transmitter such as an iPod FM adapter. Perhaps an amplified FM antenna connected to your stereo is oscillating. Tracking interference on DTV is not easy. You can turn things off one at a time and see when the problem goes away. If you switch your TV to analog on channel 9, do you see any obvious inteference patterns? If so, you can try to tack it down with the tips from an old FCC book, still available at: http://www.kyes.com/antenna/interference/tvibook.html

Tower Guy · 02-05-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill2975

I live in Reno and am able to get most of the local channels digitally with a big old (20+ years) Winegard antenna mounted in the attic (we can get big winds here, and I thought I would see if I could avoid hanging it outside). I'm running a Radio Shack amplifier right next to the antenna, or the reception would be much worse than it is.

A problem is that some of the local transmitting antennas here are 150 degrees apart relative to my home, and the transmitting power of stations like NBC seems pretty weak compared to bigger places. Is there a way to use a second antenna, and then point each at the right set of target antennas and then combine the two antenna signals before feeding them into the Hughes HD-DVR I'm using for HD?

Or is there a better solution so that we can get NBC in high-def?

Or should I wait for DirecTV to go high-def on local stations? <grin>

Thanks in advance for any advice.

bill2975

Here's a link to the diplexor that you are looking for. They are called Jointennas. They are special order because they are tuned to a single channel.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm

Your NBC DTV station is on channel 7. You'll want an antenna capable of VHF for NBC. One such antenna is the Antennacraft Model Y10-7-13.

hphocl · 02-16-2006, 06:40 PM

Well, Im not sure why this worked so well since in the day we got the channels and night didn't. I rotate the antenna while my wife watched the signal meter. We were able to get 55 to 70 pervent on three stations and 95 on Fox. Before we were at 100% on everything except ABC.

And, yes it seams at night the ABC station pixilates more than during the day

As with the gentleman from Reno, it seems that we have a group of transmitters on one hill and far off on another is ABC's tower - about 60 degrees from the others. I have a DB2 antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=AD-DB2) provided by direct TV. This may sound hoaky but can you get the DB2's cousin, a larger antenna that has two sections - similar to the DB8 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=AD-DB8) and bend each of the panels so they each face a tower? What other alternatives do I have?

12-07-2005, 03:39 AM	#33
xjcx What is HD? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2	jim5506 & rsawdey!!!! thanx so much for replying me!! )) u guys are so technical!! i don't know anything much about tv antenna and stuff. i'm trying to discover it and the more info i read through the more confuse i become. yea, got the fuzzy or snowy images when the tv analog is connected to the supplied antenna (from the wall and out to the roof - i guess since i live in the apartment, there would be the satelite dish up the roof) basically, i know its UHF reception (if i'm not wrong) and the one thing i would like to know is, buying the HDTV set top box, can i still view the channels without the fuzzy or snowy images on the LCD TV?? __________________ --==-- Your words living in my heart --==--

12-07-2005, 11:36 PM	#34
bill2975 bill2975 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 5	OTA with a "diplexer"? I live in Reno and am able to get most of the local channels digitally with a big old (20+ years) Winegard antenna mounted in the attic (we can get big winds here, and I thought I would see if I could avoid hanging it outside). I'm running a Radio Shack amplifier right next to the antenna, or the reception would be much worse than it is. A problem is that some of the local transmitting antennas here are 150 degrees apart relative to my home, and the transmitting power of stations like NBC seems pretty weak compared to bigger places. Is there a way to use a second antenna, and then point each at the right set of target antennas and then combine the two antenna signals before feeding them into the Hughes HD-DVR I'm using for HD? Or is there a better solution so that we can get NBC in high-def? Or should I wait for DirecTV to go high-def on local stations? <grin> Thanks in advance for any advice. bill2975

12-08-2005, 08:08 AM	#35
Yaamon HD all the way Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Markham, Ontario, Canada Age: 46 Posts: 64	Bill what you should do is then consider a channel master 4228 its 40" high by 20" turning radius and mount it in your attic with the channel master rotor. If that antenna is too big try the smaller 4221 that is 40" high by 10" turning radius and maybe a preamp with of course a rotor. The chanel master rotor are now wireless and you can program in up to 69 channels or just direct access by compass position. A very nice feature. OTA has a much better signal then what Directv can deliver to you. OTA are a uncompressed full bandwith signal either 1920x1080i or 1280x720p. Directv reduces and compress the HD signals so that it's no longer 1920x1080i its 1280x1080i. That is why they look soft compared to dishnetwork. Dishnetwork has ripped off Voom HD customers and reduced the bandwidth like that Directv has done. Now all of Voom channels are 1280x1080i. Please send email to dish complaining about the picture quality. Since the change the picture has lost much of the detail and I can see some digital artifact at times. The premium HD so far are still 1920x1080i like Hbo, Showtime Discover, HD, Espn at 1280x720p etc. __________________ Markham, Ontario, Canada Last edited by Yaamon; 12-08-2005 at 08:15 AM.

12-08-2005, 11:36 AM	#36
sasteel What is HD? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Springville, TN Posts: 3	Regarding use of diplexer Without getting too technical, combining UHF antennas aimed in different directions will reduce the signal as compared to using one antenna and rotating it. Antennas aimed in different directions can be combined further down the line when adequate isolation of each has been provided (as they do in your local cable company). Go with the CM 4228 and rotor as mentioned in the previous response if you can.

12-08-2005, 10:07 PM	#37
Colonel Mac What is HD? Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1	Which antenna Hi all, just joined this forum and haven't had a chance to read many of the posts, but I do have a question. Live in Peachtree City, Georgia (30269) and desire an outdoor antenna for HD broadcasts. Have DirecTV going through an HD DVR. Only problem is that due to some legal mumbo jumbo we can't receive network broadcasts in HD as long as it goes through the HD DVR. So, outdoor antenna. We are between 25 - 35 miles from all of the desired stations and it looks like they are generally in the same direction. The question is, if money is not a matter (within reason, of course) which is the best antenna and what accessorries, if any, should accompany it (preamp, etc). We live in a two story home and other than a few tall pines there is not much to obstruct a signal. Also, if placed at the highest point there will be about a 50 -60 ft cable run... how will this affect things and how can we address this run if it is a problem? Thanks for any assistance.

12-04-2005, 02:30 PM	#32
RSawdey Mr. Wizard Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ferndale, Michigan Age: 61 Posts: 5,981	Unfortunately, AntennaWeb doesn't even work for Canada, let alone Oz... and since he's an apartment dweller, he probably has little to say about the antenna system. One thing that's international... unless you're VERY close to the transmitters (less than 20 miles) an indoor antenna won't work well... although it would give you the option to repoint - which the roof won't. Direction is important to avoid 'multipath' (reflections, they cause 'ghosts' on analog). One thing about digital (both pro & con) is that IF you get an image it will be perfect... but that also means if you can't get a perfect image you won't get anything. If you were in an ATSC country, I'd say get a receiver with the latest Zenith chip, but Australia uses DVB standard - and with 8 MHz wide channels instead of the 6 MHz used in North America & Europe. Sorry we're not more helpful, best of luck...

02-03-2006, 07:48 PM	#40
alphanguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177	Recommendations? I have decided to stay with my SD television, but eventually, I know I will need to have an ATSC tuner to recieve OTA broadcast. Is there such a thing as a VCR that has an ATSC tuner built into it? If so, will this work? I'm dissapointed with my DISH local feeds, and am wondering if digital OTA on SD tv will look better. currently, the analog isn't bad, but my antenna is aging, and am going to need to replace soon. any recommendations appreciated.

02-04-2006, 10:50 PM	#41
hphocl What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	Off Air Antenna - Day vs night I have been searching the net and have not found anyone having this issue. I recently got Directtv HD with the off air antenna, I live in 45011 (butler county ohio). I get all of the local HD channels during the day (5.1, 9.1, 12.1, 5.2, 9.2, etc.). At night, however, I lose channel 9 (9.1 and 9.2). I lose the station sometime between 6 and 8. During the day, the signal varries around 60%. At night, its between 0 and 5%. I have tried adjusting (aiming) the antenna - even to the piont of calling the station to ask where their tower is so I can use a compass to help zero in on the tower. The tower is roughly 18 miles from my house and I have an outdoor antenna. The only issue I maybe foresee is the antenna is mounted on the garage roof so maybe the signal is bouncing off the second floor exterior wall. The wall is behind the antenna about 6', but not totally perpendicular to the antenna. I tried to call directtv and a tech can come out but I worry since this is an 'evening thing' it will work for the tech.

02-05-2006, 12:09 AM	#42
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,337	I know some radio stations have to cut their power at night, but I've never heard of a TV station having to, but there is always a first for everything. When you called the station, you didn't ask that question, did you? __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-16-2006, 06:40 PM	#45
hphocl What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	Able to tune it in (limited) Well, Im not sure why this worked so well since in the day we got the channels and night didn't. I rotate the antenna while my wife watched the signal meter. We were able to get 55 to 70 pervent on three stations and 95 on Fox. Before we were at 100% on everything except ABC. And, yes it seams at night the ABC station pixilates more than during the day As with the gentleman from Reno, it seems that we have a group of transmitters on one hill and far off on another is ABC's tower - about 60 degrees from the others. I have a DB2 antenna (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=AD-DB2) provided by direct TV. This may sound hoaky but can you get the DB2's cousin, a larger antenna that has two sections - similar to the DB8 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...T=&PROD=AD-DB8) and bend each of the panels so they each face a tower? What other alternatives do I have?

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