A Plea For Help (from You)

Rickfla · 03-01-2008, 03:47 AM

Yes, thanks I'll try the tilt today; it's tilted slightly up now but nowhere near 12 degrees. Also noticed that I am off quite a bit in direction its aimed now, its aimed more towards the Riverview antenna farm SE of Tampa and will have to be turned west some more to be more towards channel 40 (52digital). It's picking out channel 10 west of here fine off the side at 30 miles or so. So I'l see what happens today.

Rick0725 · 03-01-2008, 10:38 AM

The 91 xg (11-14+dbd) has much more gain then the rs u75r (8-10 dbd). The 91 xg is directional and I am able to receive stations with my set of variables in a 30 degree space. so there are possibilities.

Rickfla · 03-01-2008, 12:56 PM

I am able to get the Orlando u's pretty well here in the early afternoon, most of them that is on analog with the antenna aimed generally towards Orlando and looking slightly over a large oak tree in the fornt yard; they don't look bad at all and according to tvfool they are 70-80+ miles form here; so there must be something about channel 40 in sarasota not being received well here at 44 miles. I can tell that with a rotor and pre-amp these distant U's will look pretty good. I have the antenna tilted up about 10 or so degrees I'd say. When I get the rotor and more coax to raise the antenna up all the way I'll be even higher and they should come in even better. I'll have to say I'm pleased so far with the 91-XG, will just have to completely finish the installation to be able to tell more. Now if I had a 50 ft. tower, mmmm...............

QueryAll · 04-02-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

I don't know where to post this so I will try here...

I agree 100% with the concern about posters not providing enough info, but this problem is site-wide, not just the OTA area. I think there should be a new category added at the top of the home page with a very prominent "new posters please read this first before you do anything else" type of heading, and then put a number of the various overview and general HD topic stickies from different categories in there. There are posts throughout the site where the original poster has obviously not tried to search for previous answers, or doesn't provide enough basic information, or hasn't read some of the general threads first, etc. One of the entries should tell folks what they should (must?) put in their profile and signature to get a quick and accurate response (and if mine are missing something necessary please tell me and I will add it!).

I find this site very interesting and informative, but there really is a tremendous amount of repetition that I think could be reduced with some kind of prominent getting-started area at the top.

IMHO of course.

This should be done if not already. I looked but didn't see it anywhere.

snedecor · 06-16-2008, 02:44 PM

Looking for help in troubleshooting.

Live in Angleton, TX 77515, about 28 mi from Houston's antenna farm. I have an older Radio Shack antenna (unknown model, used for NTSC stations before satellite locals). It has ~5 rows or chevrons of elements on the VHF side, and a UHF section with top and bottom "wings" over and under the UHF portion of the boom. It is mounted on a 20 foot tall pipe mast and is pointed slightly west of north (per antennaweb). There is a balun right on the antenna, and RG-6 to the splitter in the center of the attic. I had a Radio Shack 4 output amp there(now taken out, didn't seem to make much difference). Output from the splitter is unknown 75 ohm cable down the walls to wall plates.

I'm currently trying to use a HDTV (Olevia) and RCA-DT-800A converter box for my SD TV.

Some DTV stations come in with only occasional noise disruptions. Some stations are better than others. NTSC reception has snow on NTSC channels that I have trouble getting on digital. Slightly moving the antenna seems to improve some channels at the expense of others, which seems strange, since they're all pretty closely bunched at the antenna farm. Strangely, some of the channels come in fine, with fairly high signal strength (S/N ratio?) but regularly dip down to low enough levels to cause audio/video dropouts.

I'm looking for troubleshooting tips. I'm sure some of you experts can give me some rule of thumb advice, such as "At 28 miles, you can get by with tin foil and a coat hanger" or "At 28 miles, you need a MasterSignal 9800, Zenith 389 pre-amp, and a rotor" or "That antenna should be fine, replace all your old cable and you'll be fine", etc.

I'm willing to replace my antenna, add a pre-amp or amp, fish new cable to my outlets, etc. I'm less willing to raise the antenna, but will if I have to.

I'd also like to know what will be needed (if anything) in Feb, 2009, when I heard some channel remapping will be done.

Also, lots of people on the web are selling "HDTV antennas" . Why do I need a "HDTV antenna" and how is it different than any other good antenna?

Thanks for all you smart ones who help us out.

jim5506 · 06-16-2008, 08:55 PM

I'd replace the antenna and the cable from the antenna.

Get a good quality antenna by Channel Master (3600 series) or Winegard (HD series) add to it a pre-amp, either a CM7777 (~30dB) or a Winegard HDP-269 (12dB) for fear of the Galveston channel overloading your tuner at 16 miles away.

I'd select an antenna that has a medium amount of elements, you don't need a monster or a 20-30 element one but you still need enough antenna to have a good clear signal to amplify on all channels.

hoopitup2000 · 06-16-2008, 09:44 PM

I would "definitely" recommend the Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp over the CM 7777. You have a very powerful analog UHF station less than 16 miles away.(TV fool says 2 million watts/ FCC says 5 million) Either scenario is a likely recipe for overload.(Yikes!!) The CM 7777 works best at 30 miles or more out.

snedecor · 06-17-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopitup2000

I would "definitely" recommend the Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp over the CM 7777. You have a very powerful analog UHF station less than 16 miles away.(TV fool says 2 million watts/ FCC says 5 million) Either scenario is a likely recipe for overload.(Yikes!!) The CM 7777 works best at 30 miles or more out.

Thanks to all who have replied. I'm learning, bit by bit. I have a few questions about directionality and overload.

1-My Radio Shack antenna, which looks almost identical to the Channel Master 3016, appears to be pretty directional. Wouldn't this pretty much exclude the off-angle UHF station? I can't get a good signal from this source on NTSC right now. If I get too directional, will I exclude this channel from ever being able to be shown?

2- Is there a quality pre-amp that has variable gain?

3- Sorry for all the questions, does anyone have any thoughts on why the "signal strength" with my current setup would be relatively high for a majority of the time, yet every 15 seconds or so, pretty regularly, drop down enough to cause audio/video glitches? It only happens on some channels.

Thanks again for the answers.

hoopitup2000 · 06-17-2008, 11:27 AM

Are there a lot of trees around you? As soon as the wind starts moving the leaves around, it completely changes the way your antenna see's the incoming signal. They make the signals bounce all over the place(multipath). A highly directional antenna will zero in on the actual signal path, and reject all the reflected signals coming from other directions. These reflections will make your signal strength very inconsistent. I like the Winegard antennas because of the 75 ohm hookup, but the HD7082P I tried just wasn't very directional, and the UHF was a bit of a dissapointment for the size of the antenna. I started with the HD7210P which actually gave better than expected results here.(Suprisingly good on UHF,especially with multipath) It is much more directional, and with your good signal strengh, I personally would give it a try. (Only $44.95 plus shipping on NEWEGG). If you only needed UHF, I would recommend the 91-XG, but it looks like you will need VHF.(2 antennas). With 2 TV's hooked up, you will probably need a good pre-amp to keep the signal levels up for both sets. I like the HDP-269 because it accepts moderate to high signal levels better. At 28 miles out a CM7777 is a risk. There is no right answer, and it sometimes takes a bit of experimentation to get what you desire. Hope this helps.

jim5506 · 06-17-2008, 09:10 PM

Such a strong UHF channel at only 16 miles, will be picked up off the side of the antenna anyway.

hoopitup2000 · 06-17-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5506

Such a strong UHF channel at only 16 miles, will be picked up off the side of the antenna anyway.

True, but it would more than likely be more attenuated. I can receive a very watchable analog UHF station at 85 miles out(WJAL-68@-108 dBm) with the more directional 91-XG or HD7210P, but with the less directional HD7082P, it never shows up. There are many 3-4 megawatt UHF stations within a few miles of here.

dgcaste · 07-03-2008, 06:51 AM

--edit: realized this should be on a post of its own--

tunamike · 08-01-2008, 08:09 AM

just wondering i see you are from arlington VA i am from north of hagerstown Md and having horrendous time getting balt or DC stations from here I have a Cm 4228 with rotor up 23 feet agl I am at 615 ASL I can only get 13 out of baltimore with any reguarity. I had a 7777 pre amp I could get some DC stations very very marginal but took the AMP of I seem to get the baltimore station more regular no amp. my zip is 17225 the channel 68 WJAL is rather close to me I dont know if that was the AMP problem or not I guess I am just trying to find any help possible to get DC and Baltimore better. I am contemplating another 4228 dual 16 bay setup but just lost at this time. anybody any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

hoopitup2000 · 08-01-2008, 07:11 PM

Hi Tunamike,

A couple quick questions. How is your picture on "analog"? Do you have a lot of ghosting in the picture? Do you have the FM trap engaged? You have (2) 50kw FM stations within 10 miles of you which can compromise your DX'ing abilities. As far as WJAL goes; you are getting a pretty strong analog signal in your area; so it could be causing an issue with the CM7777 preamp. If the FM trap doesn't help, I would consider an 91-XG purchase instead of trying to gang 2 - 4228's(Especially if you are seeing the ghosting). Can you provide an address, or post your TV FOOL results so we can get a better idea of any terrain issues you may be dealing with?

Glen

smdp1 · 08-01-2008, 08:26 PM

I had to put an external fm trap on my rig because of so many 100kw stations nearby many on the lower end of the fm band and most traps don't do much below 95mhz so I had to get a full band fm trap, but it ruins ch 6 so its a give and take thing....also note that if you have really strong uhf stations nearby it can overload your pre-amp....91xg is a great antenna choice, but if you have real strong uhf signals it can reek havoc with your preamp.

03-01-2008, 03:47 AM	#61
Rickfla Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wesley Chapel, FL Posts: 95	91-xg Yes, thanks I'll try the tilt today; it's tilted slightly up now but nowhere near 12 degrees. Also noticed that I am off quite a bit in direction its aimed now, its aimed more towards the Riverview antenna farm SE of Tampa and will have to be turned west some more to be more towards channel 40 (52digital). It's picking out channel 10 west of here fine off the side at 30 miles or so. So I'l see what happens today.

03-01-2008, 12:56 PM	#63
Rickfla Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wesley Chapel, FL Posts: 95	More 91XG Info I am able to get the Orlando u's pretty well here in the early afternoon, most of them that is on analog with the antenna aimed generally towards Orlando and looking slightly over a large oak tree in the fornt yard; they don't look bad at all and according to tvfool they are 70-80+ miles form here; so there must be something about channel 40 in sarasota not being received well here at 44 miles. I can tell that with a rotor and pre-amp these distant U's will look pretty good. I have the antenna tilted up about 10 or so degrees I'd say. When I get the rotor and more coax to raise the antenna up all the way I'll be even higher and they should come in even better. I'll have to say I'm pleased so far with the 91-XG, will just have to completely finish the installation to be able to tell more. Now if I had a 50 ft. tower, mmmm...............

06-16-2008, 02:44 PM	#65
snedecor What is HD? Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4	Novice Plea- 77515, Radio Shack ant. on 20' mast. Looking for help in troubleshooting. Live in Angleton, TX 77515, about 28 mi from Houston's antenna farm. I have an older Radio Shack antenna (unknown model, used for NTSC stations before satellite locals). It has ~5 rows or chevrons of elements on the VHF side, and a UHF section with top and bottom "wings" over and under the UHF portion of the boom. It is mounted on a 20 foot tall pipe mast and is pointed slightly west of north (per antennaweb). There is a balun right on the antenna, and RG-6 to the splitter in the center of the attic. I had a Radio Shack 4 output amp there(now taken out, didn't seem to make much difference). Output from the splitter is unknown 75 ohm cable down the walls to wall plates. I'm currently trying to use a HDTV (Olevia) and RCA-DT-800A converter box for my SD TV. Some DTV stations come in with only occasional noise disruptions. Some stations are better than others. NTSC reception has snow on NTSC channels that I have trouble getting on digital. Slightly moving the antenna seems to improve some channels at the expense of others, which seems strange, since they're all pretty closely bunched at the antenna farm. Strangely, some of the channels come in fine, with fairly high signal strength (S/N ratio?) but regularly dip down to low enough levels to cause audio/video dropouts. I'm looking for troubleshooting tips. I'm sure some of you experts can give me some rule of thumb advice, such as "At 28 miles, you can get by with tin foil and a coat hanger" or "At 28 miles, you need a MasterSignal 9800, Zenith 389 pre-amp, and a rotor" or "That antenna should be fine, replace all your old cable and you'll be fine", etc. I'm willing to replace my antenna, add a pre-amp or amp, fish new cable to my outlets, etc. I'm less willing to raise the antenna, but will if I have to. I'd also like to know what will be needed (if anything) in Feb, 2009, when I heard some channel remapping will be done. Also, lots of people on the web are selling "HDTV antennas" . Why do I need a "HDTV antenna" and how is it different than any other good antenna? Thanks for all you smart ones who help us out.

06-16-2008, 08:55 PM	#66
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,416	I'd replace the antenna and the cable from the antenna. Get a good quality antenna by Channel Master (3600 series) or Winegard (HD series) add to it a pre-amp, either a CM7777 (~30dB) or a Winegard HDP-269 (12dB) for fear of the Galveston channel overloading your tuner at 16 miles away. I'd select an antenna that has a medium amount of elements, you don't need a monster or a 20-30 element one but you still need enough antenna to have a good clear signal to amplify on all channels. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

06-17-2008, 11:27 AM	#69
hoopitup2000 No Static At All Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arlington, Va Posts: 408	Are there a lot of trees around you? As soon as the wind starts moving the leaves around, it completely changes the way your antenna see's the incoming signal. They make the signals bounce all over the place(multipath). A highly directional antenna will zero in on the actual signal path, and reject all the reflected signals coming from other directions. These reflections will make your signal strength very inconsistent. I like the Winegard antennas because of the 75 ohm hookup, but the HD7082P I tried just wasn't very directional, and the UHF was a bit of a dissapointment for the size of the antenna. I started with the HD7210P which actually gave better than expected results here.(Suprisingly good on UHF,especially with multipath) It is much more directional, and with your good signal strengh, I personally would give it a try. (Only $44.95 plus shipping on NEWEGG). If you only needed UHF, I would recommend the 91-XG, but it looks like you will need VHF.(2 antennas). With 2 TV's hooked up, you will probably need a good pre-amp to keep the signal levels up for both sets. I like the HDP-269 because it accepts moderate to high signal levels better. At 28 miles out a CM7777 is a risk. There is no right answer, and it sometimes takes a bit of experimentation to get what you desire. Hope this helps. Last edited by hoopitup2000; 06-17-2008 at 11:33 AM.

03-01-2008, 10:38 AM	#62
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	The 91 xg (11-14+dbd) has much more gain then the rs u75r (8-10 dbd). The 91 xg is directional and I am able to receive stations with my set of variables in a 30 degree space. so there are possibilities.

06-16-2008, 09:44 PM	#67
hoopitup2000 No Static At All Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arlington, Va Posts: 408	I would "definitely" recommend the Winegard HDP-269 pre-amp over the CM 7777. You have a very powerful analog UHF station less than 16 miles away.(TV fool says 2 million watts/ FCC says 5 million) Either scenario is a likely recipe for overload.(Yikes!!) The CM 7777 works best at 30 miles or more out.

06-17-2008, 09:10 PM	#70
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,416	Such a strong UHF channel at only 16 miles, will be picked up off the side of the antenna anyway. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

07-03-2008, 06:51 AM	#72
dgcaste Mourning would Join Date: Sep 2007 Age: 29 Posts: 20	--edit: realized this should be on a post of its own-- Last edited by dgcaste; 07-03-2008 at 06:59 AM.

08-01-2008, 08:09 AM	#73
tunamike High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 31	just wondering i see you are from arlington VA i am from north of hagerstown Md and having horrendous time getting balt or DC stations from here I have a Cm 4228 with rotor up 23 feet agl I am at 615 ASL I can only get 13 out of baltimore with any reguarity. I had a 7777 pre amp I could get some DC stations very very marginal but took the AMP of I seem to get the baltimore station more regular no amp. my zip is 17225 the channel 68 WJAL is rather close to me I dont know if that was the AMP problem or not I guess I am just trying to find any help possible to get DC and Baltimore better. I am contemplating another 4228 dual 16 bay setup but just lost at this time. anybody any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

08-01-2008, 07:11 PM	#74
hoopitup2000 No Static At All Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arlington, Va Posts: 408	Hi Tunamike, A couple quick questions. How is your picture on "analog"? Do you have a lot of ghosting in the picture? Do you have the FM trap engaged? You have (2) 50kw FM stations within 10 miles of you which can compromise your DX'ing abilities. As far as WJAL goes; you are getting a pretty strong analog signal in your area; so it could be causing an issue with the CM7777 preamp. If the FM trap doesn't help, I would consider an 91-XG purchase instead of trying to gang 2 - 4228's(Especially if you are seeing the ghosting). Can you provide an address, or post your TV FOOL results so we can get a better idea of any terrain issues you may be dealing with? Glen

08-01-2008, 08:26 PM	#75
smdp1 digital DX'n is alive Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greenhill, AL. Posts: 658	I had to put an external fm trap on my rig because of so many 100kw stations nearby many on the lower end of the fm band and most traps don't do much below 95mhz so I had to get a full band fm trap, but it ruins ch 6 so its a give and take thing....also note that if you have really strong uhf stations nearby it can overload your pre-amp....91xg is a great antenna choice, but if you have real strong uhf signals it can reek havoc with your preamp. __________________ my antenna is bigger than yours...lol couldn't resist

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