tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Tower Guy

I'd look for FM interference from KHPT on 106.9. Remove any preamps and try again. A HLSJ (High Low Splitter Joiner) can be used as an FM trap.

gjvrieze

I would grab a Winegard HDP-269 and see what that does for you. The weaker stations could use a little boosting on the line to your tuners, more then likely.

__________________
KD0GTI

http://rochestermnhd.blogspot.com/

oldmanriver85

I can get 8.1, I can get all the channels that I always get, but 13.1 is gone. 13 comes up alright on sat.

jim_woodhen

Hello all. This is what I am working with:

Anti spam rules making it tough to post my tvfool report:
(www tvfool dot com here)/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d23c5ac2187ac3 e

I got a Zenith Urban/Suburban Outdoor UHF HDTV/DTV Antenna, GEMDTV1 from the local WallyWorld and climbed up a ladder and waved it around with no effect.

I didn't have compass points form TVFool at the time. I hoped I might be able to toss it in the attic and be done. No good.

Then I hoped to find out if mounting it on the roof would work. No good.

So I did some homework and am guessing the prescription is my best chance:

>1 Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna
>1 Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF antenna
>1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp
>1 Channel Master 9521a rotator
>30'+ antenna height from the ground

Everything I have any hope of tuning is hi-VHF or UHF, so I am thinking I can skip the Wade-Delhi VHF antenna. Does that sound right? This is a seasonal/weekend cabin situation. I don't mind giving up a channel or three. I would be happy with one station for news and weather. NBC was always the best reception in analog. PBS would be icing on the cake.

If I skip the VHF is the 7777 still the best choice for an amplifier since it is optimized for weak signal areas? I just cap the VHF port and run the UHF side?

Are the digital converter boxes all created equal? I got a cheap one. Do some tune with less real signal strength or some require an extra strong signal from the antenna?

It is a two story house with a very steep roof. The 30' will not be a problem with a mast, but I am surrounded by a lot of big trees.

Any suggestions, hints, tips, or reassurances for my wife that this will work?

Thanks.

Jim

JB Antennaman

I guess you already figured out that the cheap antenna deal would not work for fringe reception, and the same holds true for the cheap box. The people that sells that crap should be arrested.

The cheap boxes were sold in drug stores and Walmart with the hopes that people would buy them, use them one or two times and then throw them away before the house burned down.

Many of them did not have even a vent to keep them cool.

Once you bought the box and connected it to the wrong antenna and got no signal, you would loose all hope and throw it all away and subscribe to cable or the dish.

The two boxes I like is the CM 7000 and the Zenith DTT 900 - 901, although the DTT 900 did not have the pass through technology and was obsolete before it even hit the shelves. Circuit City sold pallets of them, and had pallets of the 901's in the back of the stores and would not bring the new boxes out until they sold the old ones- because they knew that once the 901's came out, they would get stuck with the old ones.

Radio Jap sold me a couple of DTT 900 boxes for $80 each! Definitely - some price gouging went on there.

You need the best antenna for the situation, depending on terrain and how high you are willing to put it up in a remote location.

The 4228 is ok if you give it lot's of height and there is nothing blocking the signal. But something with a narrow view such as a Winegard Yagi style antenna sometimes works better in a fringe area.

If it was me, I would start out with a Winegard 7698 and a CM 7777 and a good quad shield wire.

If the roof is 30 feet, I would put the antenna 10 feet above the roof - 40 feet. There you would get a decent amount of gain.

Use a rust inhibitor in all connectors and tape all connectors before you come down off the roof.

Ground the antenna and the antenna wire.

The CM 4228 antenna does not receive VHF and capping the VHF port will do nothing for your reception problems. You need to use a good combo antenna to receive both UHF and VHF, and use the pre amp with the factory settings.

That set up should give you years of enjoyment.

tigerbangs

Your TVFool.com report is no longer available on the server. I will try to help if you can post the actual page...

__________________
Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

jim_woodhen

The url got garbled when I was playing games to get around the 5 post minimum rule. There was an extra space before the last letter.

(www tvfool dot com here)/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d23c5ac2187ac3 e

Weird still a space. I posted it all together and it is one string in the edit mode but when it displays it has that extra space near the end. I might get 5 posts in before this address is usable!

tube69

Jim, your TV Fool link HERE.

__________________
Westinghouse LVM-37W1 LCD Monitor
Dish Network DTVPal DVR
Harman-Kardon AVR 635 AV Receiver
5 Dynaco A25 Speakers
1 JBL CinemaVision 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer
Logitech Harmony 550 Remote Control
Channel Master 4228 8-Bay UHF Antenna
Winegard YA-1713 High Band VHF Antenna
Channel Master 9521A Rotator
Channel Master 7777 Titan2 Preamplifier
55' Antenna Tower
Harman-Kardon DVD 48 DVD/SACD Player
Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray Player
Adcom ACE-515 Power Conditioner

Tower Guy

The antenna that you have is narrow beam UHF only. Your three UHF stations are all in different directions. With the antenna that you have and if you were careful on aiming, you would get one at a time.

I'm not a fan of rotators for DTV antennas, so what are your options?

Many have reported success with a 4221 with the screen reflector removed. That antenna would be bidirectional. If you positioned the elements East-West it might get all three UHFs at once without reaiming.

The next antenna would be a Y10-7-13 for ABC and CBS aimed at 27 degrees.

The 7777 preamp has two inputs and would combine the two antennas.

jim_woodhen

What are the disadvantages of a DTV antenna on a rotator? I thought I would have to use one since the signals are all pretty weak and coming from 3 directions.

Does the same strategy of removing the screen reflector work on the 4228? I thought I read that the 4228 tunes high band VHF. Is the VHF part not sensitive enough to pick up weaker signals?

Thanks!

Jim

JB Antennaman

The disadvantages are, you would get to watch all the channels possible, as much as possible. But you would have to push a button every time you switched from a station in one direction to a station in another direction.

Removing the screen from behind the antenna would drop gain about 3 db, a lazy mans way of putting up a antenna and then not pointing it properly and still expecting it to perform as designed.

The 4228 catches the UHF signal ok, but does nothing for the VHF.

You are better off to spend the money once and get one really good antenna, then to buy two antenna's and have problems down the road.

A pre amp is a must for fringe reception.

Tower Guy

To change channels with the setup suggested;

push channel up/down button
watch in 3 seconds

To change channels with a rotor;

rotate antenna
push channel up/down button
watch in 20-40 seconds

To use a DVR with a rotor;

Preset the rotor before you leave the house.

To use a DVR with the suggested setup;

The DVR works right all the time.

To watch one channel while recording another:

They must be the two VHF stations that are in the same direction.

To split the signal to two TVs and watch different channels on those TVs:

They cannot be the UHF stations.

Tower Guy

Only in places with strong signals and little multipath.

JB Antennaman

Programming the DVR and then programming the rotor - is going to require a change of lifestyle if that is a program you wish to record.

It will no longer be just program the program and walk out of the house and forget it. It will be program the DVR and program the rotor and walk out of the house and forget it.

If you shine a flashlight to the east, it will not shine light to the south.

If you point it up in the sky, it will not shine back down onto the ground.

If you want to pick up a UHF signal - you are going to have the same problems. Trying to make a directional antenna, unidirectional - so a lazy person doesn't have to turn the rotor, isn't going to get it done in a fringe area.

THE FIRST TIME DANCING WITH THE STARS IS ON AND YOUR WIFE WANTS TO WATCH IT, YOU WILL GET UP OFF THE COUCH AND BUY A ROTOR WITH A REMOTE CONTROL THAT WILL MOVE IT TO A PRECISE POINT WHERE THE STATION WILL COME IN BEST. YOU WILL ALSO ATTEMPT TO MOVE IT OFF CENTER OF THE SIGNAL - TO TRY TO GET A BETTER SIGNAL IF THE SIGNAL DOES NOT COME IN CLEARLY. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A ANTENNA ROTOR AND THE SIGNAL DOES NOT COME IN CLEAR. PANIC WILL SET IN AND THE NEXT DAY, WEEK, MONTH, YOU WILL EITHER BUY A GOOD ANTENNA ROTOR OR WILL HOOK UP TO CABLE, BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT WANT TO MISS YOUR SHOW TWO WEEKS IN A ROW.

THE SAME HOLD TRUE IF YOU ARE A FOOTBALL FAN AND YOUR FAVORITE TEAM IS PLAYING AND YOU CANNOT WATCH IT BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER, WHERE YOUR SIGNAL FADED OUT THAT DAY.

I WOULD RATHER CLIMB UP ON THE ROOF ONE TIME, IN NICE WEATHER AND INSTALL EVERYTHING IN ONE SHOT, THEN CLIMB UP ON THE ROOF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WINTER WHEN THERE IS SNOW AND ICE AND TRY TO DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM AND CHANGE A ANTENNA AND INSTALL A ROTOR THEN TO DO IT WHEN THE SUN IS SHINING AND IT IS 70 DEGREES OUTSIDE.

You can do what you want to do. It is nothing to me.

Elijah

I'm looking for the recipe to the most HD and regular channels I can bring in, also can the signal be channel surfed by more than 1 tv, if so how:

My address is seven two six five N. Ute Dr, Eagle Mountain UT 84005. I have a 2 story home and mounting on the roof is not an issue. I have some taller hills, probably 75-100 feet taller than my roof, directly west of me (not sure if this is a problem or not). I have a Samsung 42" HDTV that is 3 years old and used to have Dish Network, so I have a dish without a head on the south side of the house about 10 feet off the ground. Any other info needed from me? Also would like to know who you recommend the equipment to be purchased from. Thanks in advance for your time and help.

Elijah