tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Tower Guy · 05-30-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbuckner

While we are talking amplifiers could you recommend an amplifier to distribute to five different locations in the house?

I'd look for one with a high output capability and an FM trap.

willscary · 06-14-2009, 10:11 PM

I am considering a Blonder Tongue BTY-10-U(A) antenna for channel 16. How does its gain at channel 16 compare to my 91XG and my Antennacraft MXU59? Is it at least as good? The mfgr claim is 10dBd broadband from 14-19. I am hoping that it is perhaps tuned for 16 and may be a touch better...perhaps 11dBd.

Anyone have any thoughts on this antenna?

thanks,

Bill

Hans09 · 06-15-2009, 10:55 AM

I located in the national forest about 65 miles nw of Grand Rapids, Mi. I have a radio shack deep fringe 8 foot antenna on a rotor 35 feet above ground and a radio shack pre-amp followed by a distribution amp. Prior to D day but after many stations started also broadcasting digital aslo I recieved
wwmt 2 Chicago analog
3 Kalamazoo analog, digital 3.1, 3.2 (CBS) always
4 Wisconson analog
5 Wisconson analog
6 Wisconson analog (CBS)
7 Traverse City analog (NBC)
8 Grand Rapids (should be able) analog Seldom digital 8.1, 8.2 8.3, never (NBC) fortunatly they simocast or rebroadcast on 46 analog which comes in always
9/10 Cadillac analog (CBS)
13 Grand Rapids analog, digital 13.1, 13.2 always
17 Grand Rapids analog never digital 17.1 never, but always on rebroadcast 52 analog
29 MYnet analog most times
35 Grand Rapids analog (PBS) digital 35.1, 35.2, 35.3, 35.3, 35.4 all always

After D day
analog 3, digital 3.1, 3.2 none
4 none
5 none
6 none
7 none
8 none (still able to get analog 46)
9/10 none
13.1, 13.2 always
17 none (still able to get 52 analog)
35.1, 35.2, 35.3, 35.4 digital always
My wife prefers the prime time programing on CBS, I prefer the news and sports on 8 NBC and 13 ABC and the programing DIY on 35 PBS.
Why did we loose digital 3 when we were recieving it prior to D day and can I get it back, also 8 which is much closer.

jim5506 · 06-15-2009, 02:20 PM

Your info is practically useless without more detailed info on your location.

Can you give us a lat/lon or go to TVFool.com and input your exact location and post the link to the report in this thread.

owennatekha · 06-16-2009, 08:49 PM

Greetings!

I understand that Tigerbangs suggests mounting a AntennasDirect Xg-91 UHF on top of a rotator on top of a Wade-Delhi VIP-306SR VHF. I also want to put a receiver on the mast, as high up as possible, to get wirerless internet. Where should it go and how much spacing should there between all of them?

Stewboat · 07-01-2009, 11:54 PM

Tigerbangs, I'm located in Winlock WA, TV fool and photo of UHF gear attached. I'm on a hill at about 450' elev, the top of my stacked 91XG's is about 42' off the ground. I'm using a CM7777 pre-amp, a winegaurd 7870 joiner for the XG's, a CM 9521A rotor, a thrust bearing approx 20" above the rotor, an Antennacraft Y107-13 and a CM 3045 Dist. Amp. The Y10 was a recent addition as channels 8,10 and 12 in Portland went back to VHF post transition. Prior to that life was good and we had all the digital TV we wanted. The Y10 does not pull in any reliable signal for 8 or 10, and no signal at all for 12. So I took it down. I had it mounted 28' off the ground and tried a 25' radius around my UHF setup. I also tried just below the rotor on the UHF stack. I understand the internal switching on the CM7777. I currently receive 2.1,2.2, 6.1, 13.1,13.2,15.1-15.4,22.1-22.3,32.1,32.2 and 49.1. I need to get 8.1 and 10.1-10.3 as well. I can get by without 12.1 as 13.1 has the same Fox programing. I did loose 13.1 when I switched the CM7777 to seperate and tried the Y10, but it came back when I took down the Y10 and switched the 7777 back to combined. I cannot get the Y10 above the rotor with my current set up and I am considering going back to the drawing board with a Delphi VIP 307 and a CM 4228 or DB8 or whatever you suggest, all above the rotor. The UHF I am currently getting is solid, except for 2.1,2.1. At times it will cut in and out. None of my tuners have signal meters on them. My 4 TV's are all Poloroid . I know from past experience that at 70+ miles alot of this is trial and error, but would like to know your recomendations. Thanks.

tigerbangs · 07-02-2009, 09:34 PM

If you are seeing the Portland digital UHF stations pretty reliably, you are doing very well indeed, since they are all below 0Nm at your location. The trick to VHF digital reception is going to be a better VHF antenna. While the YA-1713 is pretty good, and among the best yagis currently available in the US, a few dB more gain may make the difference between seeing the VHF digitals and not seeing them.

The Wade-Delhi VIP-307 will give you about 3dB of additional gain over the YA-1713, but, by god, it's a monster, and has a lot of its size dedicated to low-band VHF that you don't need. Using a VIP-307 will also necessitate using a heavier-duty rotator, as the 9521a just won't turn that antenna system, at least for very long.

You can look into stacking YA-1713's and they are cheap enough that you can afford to experiment. Many people use a diamond-array of 4 antennas to get additional gain, and I would defer to Midwest DXr about the best way to stack antennas for your situation. He also used to import the Funke PDP-1922 VHF yagi, which has about the same amount of gain on high-band VHF as the VIP-307, but in a smaller package. I don't think he has any more of them available, but you can ask. I am looking around for a Funke-quality VHF high-band yagi, since there seems to be pretty great demand for it, and if I find one, I will let you know.

pick4pam · 07-02-2009, 10:48 PM

Tigerbangs, thanks in advance for your help. I'll try to make this short and sweet.
My location is in northwest Alabama 35646 - Latitude = 34.6773, Longitude = 87.5761. I live in the heart of the Tennessee Valley as do the stations i want to receive (Huntsville, AL - WHNT, WAAY, WZDX and WAFF). Fairly flat terrain and some fairly large trees to shoot through. I have been using digital sat for years and have decided to switch to antenna. Tired of paying the bill I guess. I basically want to get all I can with antenna, rotor, and preamp(if necessary). Attached is my TVFool information. I have a 40 foot tower to mount it all on.

Thanks again for your response.

Stewboat · 07-03-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

If you are seeing the Portland digital UHF stations pretty reliably, you are doing very well indeed, since they are all below 0Nm at your location. The trick to VHF digital reception is going to be a better VHF antenna. While the YA-1713 is pretty good, and among the best yagis currently available in the US, a few dB more gain may make the difference between seeing the VHF digitals and not seeing them.

The Wade-Delhi VIP-307 will give you about 3dB of additional gain over the YA-1713, but, by god, it's a monster, and has a lot of its size dedicated to low-band VHF that you don't need. Using a VIP-307 will also necessitate using a heavier-duty rotator, as the 9521a just won't turn that antenna system, at least for very long.

You can look into stacking YA-1713's and they are cheap enough that you can afford to experiment. Many people use a diamond-array of 4 antennas to get additional gain, and I would defer to Midwest DXr about the best way to stack antennas for your situation. He also used to import the Funke PDP-1922 VHF yagi, which has about the same amount of gain on high-band VHF as the VIP-307, but in a smaller package. I don't think he has any more of them available, but you can ask. I am looking around for a Funke-quality VHF high-band yagi, since there seems to be pretty great demand for it, and if I find one, I will let you know.

Thanks Tigerbangs, I will have to think on that for a while. Maybe I'll try raising the Y-10 a little higher. So do you think I should leave the 91XG's as is, and not try just one of them? Or try on DB8 or 4228hd along with my Y-10? I started with 1 91XG a couple years ago with marginal results, I got alot of improvement when I stacked the 2nd one, but I also went up 10' at the same time, so I may never know if it was the height or the second 91xg that helped. I had assumed it was both. Thanks for the reply and the advice.

electriczipper · 07-03-2009, 09:53 AM

Hi tigerbangs, Would you have a recommendation for a low signal loss coaxial cable splitter? Grounding block? or should I even be concerned about this?
Thank you,
EZ

smdp1 · 07-03-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pick4pam

Tigerbangs, thanks in advance for your help. I'll try to make this short and sweet.
My location is in northwest Alabama 35646 - Latitude = 34.6773, Longitude = 87.5761. I live in the heart of the Tennessee Valley as do the stations i want to receive (Huntsville, AL - WHNT, WAAY, WZDX and WAFF). Fairly flat terrain and some fairly large trees to shoot through. I have been using digital sat for years and have decided to switch to antenna. Tired of paying the bill I guess. I basically want to get all I can with antenna, rotor, and preamp(if necessary). Attached is my TVFool information. I have a 40 foot tower to mount it all on.

Thanks again for your response.

I live in Greenhill not to far from you across the river and I use the 91xg antenna and am having no trouble with huntsville even without a booster (I had to pull my titan7777 off because it overloaded with whdf being so strong)....of coarse mine is on a tower....but for Huntsville there is likely no better antenna for you than the 91xg and from the look of your tvfool report I'd say you are in about the same situation as me for signal levels. I actually could get Huntsville digital with the 91xg when I held it in my hand outside my front door testing it...I just have the tower because I watch stations that are from Nashville too. Hope this helps you.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=AD-91XG
the rotor listed in the first page of this thread might be needed to get the florence channels and whdf as they are not in line with the Huntsville stations....I'd almost say check first as they are quite strong and might just come in anyway......oh and the tvfool report is in error in our area as whnt is using rf 19 and waff is using rf 49 instead of the listed 46 and 48...not to mention that at the last scan I made wyle is still off air.

dirtyharry667 · 07-16-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

Um, I think you may have misinterpreted the measurements: the YA-1713 Winegard Yagi has 10.3 DB gain at channel 13: that should be plenty of gain for your needs, especially if you use a preamp. My sister lives in Centerville, near Dayton, and I installed a Wade-Delhi VU-936SR without a preamp at her house, and she picks up WSYX-DT just fine and she's quite a bit further than you are from their signal!

Hi there! Just curious if your sister receives any Columbus stations other than WSYX? I have a Zenith converter box and do get evening signal readings regularly for WDTN (NBC) and WHIO (CBS), but usually not enough to lock in a picture. I live in East Columbus (I-270/Main). With your "prescription," will the Dayton stations come in reliably? Not sure why I want them, but for some reason I do.

Also, should I keep the existing outdoor antenna (15-year old combo UHF-VHF-TV fringe antenna from Radio Shack) and try an amp first maybe?

Another question for my pending TV purchase, what brands have good tuners? Are Samsungs generally OK?

Here is my antenna, it sits on the chimney of a two story home; my antenna has 2/3 as many elements however ...

salestores com/chma30defrad.html

Here are my TV Fool results, if that helps:

WCMH-DT 14 (4.1) NBC 9.7 LOS 70.5
*WBNS-DT 21 (10.1) CBS 9.7 LOS 70.3
WTTE-DT 36 (28.1) Fox 9.7 LOS 68.9
WSYX-DT 13 (6.1) ABC 9.7 LOS 65.2
WOSU-DT 38 (34.1) PBS 13.5 LOS 62.7
WSFJ-DT 24 (51.1) Ind 10.8 LOS 57.2
WWHO-DT 46 (53.1) CW 30.2 LOS 55.5
WCPX-LP 25 (48.1) 9.8 LOS 47.5
W23BZ 23 (23.1) 12.1 LOS 45.9
*WDEM-CD 17 (17.1) 9.7 LOS 40.8
WGCT-CA 8 (8.1) 11.0 LOS 33.7
WHIO-DT 41 (7.1) CBS 76.2 2Edge 0.1
WBDT-DT 26 (26.1) CW 76.7 2Edge -1.5
WDTN-DT 50 (2.1) NBC 76.8 2Edge -2.8
*WXCB-CD 42 (42.1) 25.9 2Edge -4.6
WPTD-DT 16 (16.1) PBS 76.5 2Edge -4.9
WRGT-DT 30 (45.1) Fox 76.7 2Edge -6.2
WKEF-DT 51 (22.1) ABC 76.7 2Edge -10.5
WPBO-DT 43 (42.1) PBS 84.7 2Edge -13.0
WHIZ-DT 40 (18.1) NBC 45.6 2Edge -13.6
WMFD-DT 12 (68.1) Ind 56.0 2Edge -14.1
WQCW-DT 17 (30.1) CW 107.1 Tropo -15.9
WLWT-DT 35 (5.1) NBC 106.5 Tropo -15.9
WOUB-DT 27 (20.1) PBS 58.6 2Edge -17.4
WSAZ-DT 23 (3.1) NBC 106.7 Tropo -17.5
WLIO-DT 8 (35.1) NBC 86.7 2Edge -18.2
WKOI-TV 39 (43.1) Ind 100.1 Tropo -18.2

Stewboat · 07-17-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewboat

Thanks Tigerbangs, I will have to think on that for a while. Maybe I'll try raising the Y-10 a little higher. So do you think I should leave the 91XG's as is, and not try just one of them? Or try on DB8 or 4228hd along with my Y-10? I started with 1 91XG a couple years ago with marginal results, I got alot of improvement when I stacked the 2nd one, but I also went up 10' at the same time, so I may never know if it was the height or the second 91xg that helped. I had assumed it was both. Thanks for the reply and the advice.

FYI, I raised the Y10 7-13 up to 35' off the ground, added another one 36" below and aimed it north for Tacoma. I am now getting all 3 of the VHF high band Portland stations 71 miles away and Tacoma Wa as well. I could not get a CM join-tenna for 13 on short notice so I used a high quality splitter, and so far my signal is good on all VHF stations. Would I realy gain anything with a join-tenna verses the splitter, these things are aimed almost 180 degrees from each other? Also went ahead and bought a 4228 HD for the sake of comparison to my stacked 91XG's, when I get the manlift I will do some tests. Some people just can't leave well enough alone.

afineguy · 07-17-2009, 09:36 PM

Hello all, Here is an update with my install. It's been a while but, I'm still having some issues. Back to Posting #723... I installed a Winegard HD 7084P with a cm 7777 preamp and still have an issue receiving FOX 29 WTXF within the Philadelphia DMA. I receive all the other Philly digital stations without any problems but still cannot get FOX 29 WTXF. I received Fox 29 prior to the changeover but now I do not. I even currently receive some DC stations as well as Baltimore and Salisbury with the new setup. My setup is still the same, an indoor mounting of the antenna which I know is not the best. I here is my zip.. 19938

hoopitup2000 · 07-17-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afineguy

I receive all the other Philly digital stations without any problems but still cannot get FOX 29 WTXF. I received Fox 29 prior to the changeover but now I do not. I even currently receive some DC stations as well as Baltimore and Salisbury with the new setup.

There is another station in Annapolis MD on the same frequency as FOX 29.(RF 42) WMPT-DT 22, also on RF 42, increased their power about 6 weeks ago. Is that when you noticed the change. Can you do a complete re-scan with the antenna pointed towards Philly?

06-15-2009, 10:55 AM	#918
Hans09 What is HD? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Blue Lake Twnshp, Muskegon County, Michigan Posts: 1	Help please I located in the national forest about 65 miles nw of Grand Rapids, Mi. I have a radio shack deep fringe 8 foot antenna on a rotor 35 feet above ground and a radio shack pre-amp followed by a distribution amp. Prior to D day but after many stations started also broadcasting digital aslo I recieved wwmt 2 Chicago analog 3 Kalamazoo analog, digital 3.1, 3.2 (CBS) always 4 Wisconson analog 5 Wisconson analog 6 Wisconson analog (CBS) 7 Traverse City analog (NBC) 8 Grand Rapids (should be able) analog Seldom digital 8.1, 8.2 8.3, never (NBC) fortunatly they simocast or rebroadcast on 46 analog which comes in always 9/10 Cadillac analog (CBS) 13 Grand Rapids analog, digital 13.1, 13.2 always 17 Grand Rapids analog never digital 17.1 never, but always on rebroadcast 52 analog 29 MYnet analog most times 35 Grand Rapids analog (PBS) digital 35.1, 35.2, 35.3, 35.3, 35.4 all always After D day analog 3, digital 3.1, 3.2 none 4 none 5 none 6 none 7 none 8 none (still able to get analog 46) 9/10 none 13.1, 13.2 always 17 none (still able to get 52 analog) 35.1, 35.2, 35.3, 35.4 digital always My wife prefers the prime time programing on CBS, I prefer the news and sports on 8 NBC and 13 ABC and the programing DIY on 35 PBS. Why did we loose digital 3 when we were recieving it prior to D day and can I get it back, also 8 which is much closer.

06-15-2009, 02:20 PM	#919
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,404	Your info is practically useless without more detailed info on your location. Can you give us a lat/lon or go to TVFool.com and input your exact location and post the link to the report in this thread. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

06-16-2009, 08:49 PM	#920
owennatekha What is HD? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ohsweken Posts: 1	Greetings! I understand that Tigerbangs suggests mounting a AntennasDirect Xg-91 UHF on top of a rotator on top of a Wade-Delhi VIP-306SR VHF. I also want to put a receiver on the mast, as high up as possible, to get wirerless internet. Where should it go and how much spacing should there between all of them? Last edited by owennatekha; 06-17-2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason: adding new information

07-02-2009, 09:34 PM	#922
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,101	If you are seeing the Portland digital UHF stations pretty reliably, you are doing very well indeed, since they are all below 0Nm at your location. The trick to VHF digital reception is going to be a better VHF antenna. While the YA-1713 is pretty good, and among the best yagis currently available in the US, a few dB more gain may make the difference between seeing the VHF digitals and not seeing them. The Wade-Delhi VIP-307 will give you about 3dB of additional gain over the YA-1713, but, by god, it's a monster, and has a lot of its size dedicated to low-band VHF that you don't need. Using a VIP-307 will also necessitate using a heavier-duty rotator, as the 9521a just won't turn that antenna system, at least for very long. You can look into stacking YA-1713's and they are cheap enough that you can afford to experiment. Many people use a diamond-array of 4 antennas to get additional gain, and I would defer to Midwest DXr about the best way to stack antennas for your situation. He also used to import the Funke PDP-1922 VHF yagi, which has about the same amount of gain on high-band VHF as the VIP-307, but in a smaller package. I don't think he has any more of them available, but you can ask. I am looking around for a Funke-quality VHF high-band yagi, since there seems to be pretty great demand for it, and if I find one, I will let you know. __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

07-03-2009, 09:53 AM	#925
electriczipper High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 34	Hi tigerbangs, Would you have a recommendation for a low signal loss coaxial cable splitter? Grounding block? or should I even be concerned about this? Thank you, EZ __________________ Jane & Joe Public, neither pachyderm nor jack-ss, but Manipulated into choosing one of two evils if their vote is to count at all.

06-14-2009, 10:11 PM	#917
willscary DIGITAL OTA is the KING! Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 70	I am considering a Blonder Tongue BTY-10-U(A) antenna for channel 16. How does its gain at channel 16 compare to my 91XG and my Antennacraft MXU59? Is it at least as good? The mfgr claim is 10dBd broadband from 14-19. I am hoping that it is perhaps tuned for 16 and may be a touch better...perhaps 11dBd. Anyone have any thoughts on this antenna? thanks, Bill

07-17-2009, 09:36 PM	#929
afineguy HD = Priceless!!! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Delaware Posts: 5	Hello all, Here is an update with my install. It's been a while but, I'm still having some issues. Back to Posting #723... I installed a Winegard HD 7084P with a cm 7777 preamp and still have an issue receiving FOX 29 WTXF within the Philadelphia DMA. I receive all the other Philly digital stations without any problems but still cannot get FOX 29 WTXF. I received Fox 29 prior to the changeover but now I do not. I even currently receive some DC stations as well as Baltimore and Salisbury with the new setup. My setup is still the same, an indoor mounting of the antenna which I know is not the best. I here is my zip.. 19938 Last edited by afineguy; 07-17-2009 at 09:37 PM. Reason: more info