tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

hoopitup2000 · 05-25-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoffleach

I'm in a pickle here. Can anyone help?

Did you try raising or lowering the 91-XG on the mast a few inches to find a better sweet spot? Just 6 inches of height adjustment makes a big difference on 2 of my problem channels. It seems strange that the 91-XG isn't performing as well as the the Radio Shack.

Have you ever considered a pre-amp instead of a distribution amp?

geoffleach · 05-26-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopitup2000

Did you try raising or lowering the 91-XG on the mast a few inches to find a better sweet spot? Just 6 inches of height adjustment makes a big difference on 2 of my problem channels. It seems strange that the 91-XG isn't performing as well as the the Radio Shack.

Have you ever considered a pre-amp instead of a distribution amp?

No to both. When I get up the courage

, I'll swap in the XG-91 and try again.

jim5506 · 05-26-2009, 11:16 AM

That page at HDTVPrimer also gives you a very simple solution for fixing the shortcomings of the 4228HD.

Another choice to be looked at would be the Winegard HD-8800. It is slightly better than the other "best" UHF antennas below channel 30.

geoffleach · 05-26-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim5506

That page at HDTVPrimer also gives you a very simple solution for fixing the shortcomings of the 4228HD.

Is this what you are referring to? (from the same source)

Quote:

In theory, fixing the 4228HD is not hard: You just replace the phasing harness with two 4:1 baluns and a 2:1 combiner. A nut-driver is the only tool you need. If the loss in the baluns and combiner is 0.5 dB then the performance will be 0.5 dB less than plot B. Unfortunately finding low-loss devices seems to be impossible. Such devices are becoming common, but they are not yet sold as free-standing units

.

I dismissed it because of the caveat about low-loss devices. Is there a source?

bobbuckner · 05-26-2009, 06:27 PM

First let me say that I don't understand why you guys offer so much of your time but I really appreciate that you do.
I'm about 60 miles from most of the stations that I would like to receive. One of the stations is very close and may cause a problem. I've attached a TV Fool file of my location as well as a picture of my current antenna. I am in an area with trees to 80 foot tall. I'm using a powered amplifier that is one in one out that I split to two TVs now.
I currently receive
3-1,3-2 solid
8-1,8-2,8-3 pretty flaky
19-1 solid
23-1 somewhere between flaky and solid

I would like to get good solid reception of all of the Tulsa stations. I have asked in the past, and a tower seems to be a priority. I am hoping that 60 foot would get me up high enough that the trees are at least thinner.

I would like to distribute the signal to five different locations within the house the most distant being about seventy feet of cable from the antenna.

If "the prescription" is not appropriate for my situation I hope that you pros would offer suggestions. I also wonder if a rotor is necessary considering the location of the stations that I want to receive.

Tower Guy · 05-26-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbuckner

I would like to get good solid reception of all of the Tulsa stations. I have asked in the past, and a tower seems to be a priority.

Based on your tvfool data the antenna that you have should be good enough if it has a proper amplifier. Yet, obviously, it's not working for you.

The first thing that I'd do is double check the aiming. It should be aimed at 348 degrees. Don't worry if you can't get KOET in that direction, use KOED instead. Aiming away from KOET will reduce interference and amplifier overload.

KOET analog on channel 3 may also be causing some problems. If so, you may be OK after June 12 without doing anything.

Next, you have two extremely strong FM stations, KTNT and KYAL. The solution to FM overload is a Pico HLSJ or FM trap before any amplifiers or the use of a 7-69 antenna instead of a 2-69 antenna. The HLSJ or 7-69 antenna will also solve any KOET analog interference.

I'd be surprised if you really need a 60' tower.

geoffleach · 05-27-2009, 10:17 AM

So I'm watching DTV on Sacramento ch 13, and suddenly the images pixelates and then I loose the signal altogether. Looking at the log I'm keeping, I see that while the signal strength is around 90, (measured by the HD HomeRun) and the symbol errow quality drops from 100 to 0, then I loose the lock, even though signal strength remains around 80. All other channels are fine. I query the station tech guy, and he says,

Quote:

Sounds to me like you have been having some fading.
Very typical for foothill viewers this time of year and
continuing when there is a temperature inversion throughout the summer.
The interesting thing is that the LOWER the transmitting antenna,
the more reliable the signal is in the hills, especially at your level.

I'm at 2400 feet. Presumably he knows of what he speaks. Sounds like its suck it up time, yes?

PrinceLH · 05-27-2009, 10:09 PM

Finally got my prescription filled. Here is my new setup:

Winegard PR8800 UHF Antenna
Winegard YA1713 VHF Antenna
Channel Master 7777 Preamp
Channel Master Balun for PR8800
RG6 Quad Cable, 75'
30 Ft Tower + 7 Ft of Pipe

Waiting for the rain to end, so I can start DXing with this setup.

Davepet · 05-28-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoffleach

So I'm watching DTV on Sacramento ch 13, and suddenly the images pixelates and then I loose the signal altogether. Looking at the log I'm keeping, I see that while the signal strength is around 90, (measured by the HD HomeRun) and the symbol errow quality drops from 100 to 0, then I loose the lock, even though signal strength remains around 80. All other channels are fine. I query the station tech guy, and he says,

I'm at 2400 feet. Presumably he knows of what he speaks. Sounds like its suck it up time, yes?

Truly bad news if it's correct. That would mean millions more folks than originally anticipated will not have reliable OTA TV shortly. I can't even count how many times I've watched 40-50 minutes of a program & not been able to see the end at all....

Dave

bobbuckner · 05-29-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

Based on your tvfool data the antenna that you have should be good enough if it has a proper amplifier. Yet, obviously, it's not working for you.

The first thing that I'd do is double check the aiming. It should be aimed at 348 degrees. Don't worry if you can't get KOET in that direction, use KOED instead. Aiming away from KOET will reduce interference and amplifier overload.

KOET analog on channel 3 may also be causing some problems. If so, you may be OK after June 12 without doing anything.

Next, you have two extremely strong FM stations, KTNT and KYAL. The solution to FM overload is a Pico HLSJ or FM trap before any amplifiers or the use of a 7-69 antenna instead of a 2-69 antenna. The HLSJ or 7-69 antenna will also solve any KOET analog interference.

I'd be surprised if you really need a 60' tower.

Thanks Tower Guy for the reply. Should I use the amplifier that is in the prescription or is there something more appropriate? I'm sure that I just bought the first one that I found and have no idea what it is except it is powered with 110 and has one antenna input and one output.

I would like to receive channel two and six from Tulsa which I can't get now. Do you think this might correct itself after June 12?

One thing that I failed to mention is the roof on the house is standing seam metal....about four feet below the antenna, could this be hurting the reception?

Tower Guy · 05-30-2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbuckner

I would like to receive channel two and six from Tulsa which I can't get now. Do you think this might correct itself after June 12?

The chances that reception of 2 and 6 on real channels 8 and 45 will be better after channel 3 analog switched off is small.

I don't think that a metal roof is causing your problem.

Assuming that you've double checked to make sure that your antenna is aimed at 351 degrees, your most likely problem is amplifier overload. There are several potential solutions to overload. In your case a HLSJ with a 75 ohm termination on the low VHF port would filter out the strong FM stations. That's the most likely culprit. Aiming away from KOET-DT should be sufficient to prevent overload, but if not, an HDP-269 preamp would not be bothered by KOET's nearby UHF DTV transmitter.

I'm not into guessing the overload capabilities of your existing amplifier and comparing them to Tigerbang's prescription. But, I would not run out and buy a 7777 either.

bobbuckner · 05-30-2009, 01:35 PM

Thanks, the antenna is aimed right, so it looks like an upgrade on the amplifier would be the next logical step, then maybe wait till June twelve if the amplifier doesn't work? Could you recommend an amplifier? I know you might feel like going out on a limb here but be assured I'm just looking for ideas not a guarantee! While we are talking amplifiers could you recommend an amplifier to distribute to five different locations in the house? Thanks Tower Guy

bobbuckner · 05-30-2009, 01:37 PM

Sorry Tower Guy I'll do the HLSJ as well but asm really suspect of this cheap amplifier>

hoopitup2000 · 05-30-2009, 01:48 PM

Definitely try the HLSJ first. That inexpensive filter can make a world of difference, even with an unamplified system if enough strong FM is present.

geoffleach · 05-30-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopitup2000

Did you try raising or lowering the 91-XG on the mast a few inches to find a better sweet spot? Just 6 inches of height adjustment makes a big difference on 2 of my problem channels. It seems strange that the 91-XG isn't performing as well as the the Radio Shack.

Well it was a nice day, so off I went to swap antennas ....

And I did indeed find a sweet spot with the antenna four feet lower than previously. Significantly improved signal strength and quality across the board.

Many thanks for the suggestion.

BTW, I ran across a suggestion that tilting the XG91 is also something to try. Perhaps on the next nice day ...

05-26-2009, 11:16 AM	#903
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,416	That page at HDTVPrimer also gives you a very simple solution for fixing the shortcomings of the 4228HD. Another choice to be looked at would be the Winegard HD-8800. It is slightly better than the other "best" UHF antennas below channel 30. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

05-27-2009, 10:09 PM	#908
PrinceLH It's About The Movies! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Posts: 627	Finally got my prescription filled. Here is my new setup: Winegard PR8800 UHF Antenna Winegard YA1713 VHF Antenna Channel Master 7777 Preamp Channel Master Balun for PR8800 RG6 Quad Cable, 75' 30 Ft Tower + 7 Ft of Pipe Waiting for the rain to end, so I can start DXing with this setup. __________________ Samsung BD UP5000 181 Blu Ray's Toshiba HD A30 & HD D3 170 HD DVD's Latest HD Purchase: Observe & Report

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05-30-2009, 01:35 PM	#912
bobbuckner My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shore of Beautiful Lake Eufaula Posts: 7	Thanks, the antenna is aimed right, so it looks like an upgrade on the amplifier would be the next logical step, then maybe wait till June twelve if the amplifier doesn't work? Could you recommend an amplifier? I know you might feel like going out on a limb here but be assured I'm just looking for ideas not a guarantee! While we are talking amplifiers could you recommend an amplifier to distribute to five different locations in the house? Thanks Tower Guy

05-30-2009, 01:37 PM	#913
bobbuckner My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shore of Beautiful Lake Eufaula Posts: 7	Sorry Tower Guy I'll do the HLSJ as well but asm really suspect of this cheap amplifier>

05-30-2009, 01:48 PM	#914
hoopitup2000 No Static At All Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arlington, Va Posts: 408	Definitely try the HLSJ first. That inexpensive filter can make a world of difference, even with an unamplified system if enough strong FM is present.