tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

gene_champ · 02-19-2009, 11:56 AM

thanks tiger and others, for the great information. i read the deep fringe perscription, which is probably what i need. just wanted to get an opinion on the size (weight) and wind resistance profile of the components. my area is subject to high to very high winds and occasional ice storms. i sure don't want more antenna that i need if it will be more damage prone. the CM 4228 looks like it could catch alot of wind. especially if loaded with ice. is this a concern at all? i am located near 50447.

i don't want more antenna than i need, but i guess i don't want less either.
thanks.

gjvrieze · 02-19-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_champ

thanks tiger and others, for the great information. i read the deep fringe perscription, which is probably what i need. just wanted to get an opinion on the size (weight) and wind resistance profile of the components. my area is subject to high to very high winds and occasional ice storms. i sure don't want more antenna that i need if it will be more damage prone. the CM 4228 looks like it could catch alot of wind. especially if loaded with ice. is this a concern at all? i am located near 50447.

i don't want more antenna than i need, but i guess i don't want less either.
thanks.

Which market are you after Rochester/Austin, MN/Mason City or Des Moines, IA? (I like in Rochester)

I tend to recommend the 91XG over the 4228 more, because I think its' wind load is less to boot... You will need a good UHF antenna plus a VHF-HI antenna (Winegard YA-1713) for Rochester, or a good UHF antenna plus VHF-HI/LOW antennas for Des Moines, because of WOI-DT... I think Channel Master 7777 will work good for you...
Let us know what you are planning, with or without rotator and we can get you some tv!

gene_champ · 02-19-2009, 04:19 PM

i am after austin mn, mason city ia, des moines ia. rochester mn is really pushing it on analog now. also, my very tall barn is in a direct path. if i can get it, great, but don't want to knock myself out on it. i have a 36ft tower with a older cm rotor that works now. i don't know the antenna size it can accomodate.

i will plan on the cm7777 preamp then. the house is wired for tv outlets in every room (5). do i need a distribution amp for that?

is there a combo uhf,vhf antenna that will give acceptable results? by the time i get the 2 seperate antennas on a mast, it seems like a lot hanging up there.
thanks.

gjvrieze · 02-19-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_champ

i am after austin mn, mason city ia, des moines ia. rochester mn is really pushing it on analog now. also, my very tall barn is in a direct path. if i can get it, great, but don't want to knock myself out on it. i have a 36ft tower with a older cm rotor that works now. i don't know the antenna size it can accomodate.

i will plan on the cm7777 preamp then. the house is wired for tv outlets in every room (5). do i need a distribution amp for that?

is there a combo uhf,vhf antenna that will give acceptable results? by the time i get the 2 seperate antennas on a mast, it seems like a lot hanging up there.
thanks.

Can you post your exact tvfool results (it hides the exact address) for us to look at... That would help..

Rochester/Austin/Mason City, broadcast pretty close to each other in digital, with KIMT/KYIN digital being the closer of them all, but KTTC/KSMQ-DTs should be doable...

gene_champ · 02-19-2009, 08:26 PM

hope this works.
thanks.

gjvrieze · 02-19-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_champ

hope this works.
thanks.

Well, the problem child is WOI-DT on VHF-LOW, they are going to take a darn good VHF-LO antenna and still drop out with impulse noise and E skip.... ( I would watch KAAL-DT, there HD quality seems good) I think the usually recommended, 91XG with Winegard YA-1713, maybe sub in a Funke psp.1922 for VHF-HI...
From what I have seen of KTTC-DT-10, I would NOT expect to them or WHO-DT either, unless they boast power up to 75kW... The UHFs from both cities, look very doable with 91XG and 7777 amp....
I am not impressed with VHF-HI, at 56miles with the Funke, I am getting dropouts on a 20kW station, which at 553kW UHF was rock solid...

foster · 02-21-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

If you are talking about the Mt. Mansfield transmitters, then you are talking about some of the highest transmitters in North America. Practically speaking, the issue that you will face in Wallingford is not the sheer distance between the transmitters, but rather, the mountains that lie in between the transmitters and your location, as each mountain will refract or block the signals coming from the transmitters. I personally know that reception is possible in VT at substantial distances between Mt. Mansfield, as my folks had a house down near Stratton Mtn, and I used to be able to get channels 3 and 5 from the Burlington area without a problem. Our house was about 1500' ASL, about 2/3 up Snow Valley, and from that location I was able to pick up Boston , Manchester, NH, Burlington-Plattsburg and Mt. Washington and even Montreal VHF, at a distance of 170 miles!. Because of the location of the house on the hill, Albany wasn't possible, even though it was actually closer to us than was Burlington. UHF was never an issue in those days, as WFFF and channel 22 weren't on the air in those days. Theoretically, under flat conditions, the Mt. Masnfield stations should easily reach over 100 miles with a good signal, as people in Montreal will tell you, the Burlington stations come in in Montreal without much of a problem at a distance of almost 90 miles. So, to answer your question, yes, in theory, 4000'+ of transmitting height should make reception pretty easy at a distance of 75 miles, but the geographical features of the state are working against you. In the right location, good reception should be possible, but reception is almost impossible to predict because of the terrain.

Greetings from 12855 - the adirondack park. We have limited knowledge of antennas etc but have been trying to learn as much as we can. Currently we have a new 32" Sanyo flat panel model DP32648. Our antenna is probably 30+ years old and is wired with the old style flat brown antenna wire. We are using a 14db multi-media drop amp. After the digital switch over on Tuesday, we are still able to receive channel 22 (WVNY) perfectly. No other channels are possible. Before the switch we received channels 3 and 5 in analog, but we don't get the digital versions at all. We believe that all of the stations we are hoping for (major networks and a PBS station) are being broadcast from Mount Mansfield in VT. Obviously, we need to do a complete antenna makeover in order to get additional stations. My main question at this point is that given our location and the fact that even with the antiquated antenna we get 22 so clearly should we feel encouraged that we are getting any reception at all and consider a new antenna system or are we just being delusional. BTW neighbors get nothing with the new converter box, but our reception has always been better here. Please be aware that this area is famous for extreme weather conditions - wind, snow, ice etc. Any and all help would be appreciated. Chris C.

tigerbangs · 02-22-2009, 09:57 AM

Honestly, a zip code won't help much here, as the towns up your way are enormous. Is there a way that you could give us your actually coordinates, in decimal? Google Earth is useful for this...

foster · 02-22-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

Honestly, a zip code won't help much here, as the towns up your way are enormous. Is there a way that you could give us your actually coordinates, in decimal? Google Earth is useful for this...

Tigerbangs,

Using our street address and zip, google earth lists this for our location:
44°01'00.50"N
73°41'32.11"W
Elevation is 481m.

Thank you SO much for helping! Chris

Don_M · 02-22-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foster

Using our street address and zip, google earth lists this for our location:
44°01'00.50"N
73°41'32.11"W
Elevation is 481m.

TVFool report for coordinates attached.

PrinceLH · 02-22-2009, 05:56 PM

I'm thinking about trying the prescription but want an evaluation on two antenna's and if they are comparable to use as the prescription.

For UHF: I have a Winegard PR-8800

Is this better than the Channel Master 4228? Can I use the PR8800 instead of buying the Channel Master to make this prescription work?

For VHF: Which should I buy?

Winegard YA-1713

Winegard:Y-10-7-13

Would either of these VHF high antenna's suffice for my needs to make this prescription work?

I sit relatively close to Lake Ontario, on the Canadian side. I am about 72 miles from Rochester, NY, 83 miles from Watertown, New York, 115 miles from Syracuse, NY and 125 miles from Buffalo, New York, over open water.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3d622c6b20a3

Don_M · 02-23-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

I'm thinking about trying the prescription but want an evaluation on two antenna's and if they are comparable to use as the prescription. ...

As the man says about the prescription, "do NOT substitute!" At distances more than roughly 100 km, curvature of the earth itself blocks line-of-sight signal reception. To overcome this, the antennas need to be a couple of dozen meters up in the air, maybe more. You'll probably need a steel tower do do this.

A PR-8800 is in no way better than a 4228. It's not nearly as durable, either. See this page for more details.

The Winegard antenna is a YA-1713, as noted. The Y10-7-13 is made by AntennaCraft; it neither performs as strongly nor lasts as long as a 1713. Lots of people in the States have used the 1713 in place of the Wade-Delhi VIP series due to difficulty in obtaining them down here, but it doesn't perform as well as the VIP-306.

alphanguy · 02-23-2009, 06:54 PM

Don M, I might not be so quick to judge the pr-8800. It dpeneds on your channels. According to that gain testing that was done a couple of years ago, the PR-8800 is the better choice if your UHF channels are below channel 30. ALL mine are below 30, except for two.... and I have 5 below 20!! So adjustments need to be made sometimes. I've read things that about antennas that when I tried them... the OPPOSITE happened. I've come to the conclusion that half of it is hocus-pocus and nobody is admitting it!

Don_M · 02-24-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphanguy

I've come to the conclusion that half of it is hocus-pocus and nobody is admitting it!

Copy that!

PrinceLH · 02-27-2009, 09:31 AM

Well, decided to take the plunge and order what I need to get up and running with the prescription. Ordered the YA-1713 Winegard VHF antenna, 50" of tower, decided to use my Winegard PR8800, since all of my UHF channels, in this area, are below channel 36. Also added a new rotor, mast bearing and a CM7777 preamp to make it all work. Should have it all together in three weeks. When it's operational, I'll give a reception report, from north of Lake Ontario.

02-19-2009, 11:56 AM	#856
gene_champ What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3	what is the antenna setup i need? tiger, etal. thanks tiger and others, for the great information. i read the deep fringe perscription, which is probably what i need. just wanted to get an opinion on the size (weight) and wind resistance profile of the components. my area is subject to high to very high winds and occasional ice storms. i sure don't want more antenna that i need if it will be more damage prone. the CM 4228 looks like it could catch alot of wind. especially if loaded with ice. is this a concern at all? i am located near 50447. i don't want more antenna than i need, but i guess i don't want less either. thanks. Last edited by gene_champ; 02-19-2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason: add.

02-19-2009, 04:19 PM	#858
gene_champ What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3	thanks gjvrieze. more info. i am after austin mn, mason city ia, des moines ia. rochester mn is really pushing it on analog now. also, my very tall barn is in a direct path. if i can get it, great, but don't want to knock myself out on it. i have a 36ft tower with a older cm rotor that works now. i don't know the antenna size it can accomodate. i will plan on the cm7777 preamp then. the house is wired for tv outlets in every room (5). do i need a distribution amp for that? is there a combo uhf,vhf antenna that will give acceptable results? by the time i get the 2 seperate antennas on a mast, it seems like a lot hanging up there. thanks.

02-22-2009, 09:57 AM	#863
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	Honestly, a zip code won't help much here, as the towns up your way are enormous. Is there a way that you could give us your actually coordinates, in decimal? Google Earth is useful for this... __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-22-2009, 05:56 PM	#866
PrinceLH It's About The Movies! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Posts: 627	I'm thinking about trying the prescription but want an evaluation on two antenna's and if they are comparable to use as the prescription. For UHF: I have a Winegard PR-8800 Is this better than the Channel Master 4228? Can I use the PR8800 instead of buying the Channel Master to make this prescription work? For VHF: Which should I buy? Winegard YA-1713 Winegard:Y-10-7-13 Would either of these VHF high antenna's suffice for my needs to make this prescription work? I sit relatively close to Lake Ontario, on the Canadian side. I am about 72 miles from Rochester, NY, 83 miles from Watertown, New York, 115 miles from Syracuse, NY and 125 miles from Buffalo, New York, over open water. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d%3d622c6b20a3 __________________ Samsung BD UP5000 181 Blu Ray's Toshiba HD A30 & HD D3 170 HD DVD's Latest HD Purchase: Observe & Report

02-23-2009, 06:54 PM	#868
alphanguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177	Well Don M, I might not be so quick to judge the pr-8800. It dpeneds on your channels. According to that gain testing that was done a couple of years ago, the PR-8800 is the better choice if your UHF channels are below channel 30. ALL mine are below 30, except for two.... and I have 5 below 20!! So adjustments need to be made sometimes. I've read things that about antennas that when I tried them... the OPPOSITE happened. I've come to the conclusion that half of it is hocus-pocus and nobody is admitting it!

02-27-2009, 09:31 AM	#870
PrinceLH It's About The Movies! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Posts: 627	Well, decided to take the plunge and order what I need to get up and running with the prescription. Ordered the YA-1713 Winegard VHF antenna, 50" of tower, decided to use my Winegard PR8800, since all of my UHF channels, in this area, are below channel 36. Also added a new rotor, mast bearing and a CM7777 preamp to make it all work. Should have it all together in three weeks. When it's operational, I'll give a reception report, from north of Lake Ontario. __________________ Samsung BD UP5000 181 Blu Ray's Toshiba HD A30 & HD D3 170 HD DVD's Latest HD Purchase: Observe & Report

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