tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

tigerbangs · 02-03-2009, 02:07 PM

We would need to see what you have for equipment before passing judgement on what you should do. How old is your preamplifier and coaxial cable? What kind of VHF antenna is it? Can you get us a picture of it if you don't know what it is?

You do realize that many of the digital stations that are in NYC and Philly will be changing frequencies after the 17th of the month? You may find that the stations with which you are having issues may reappear after that time.

philipma1957 · 02-03-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

We would need to see what you have for equipment before passing judgement on what you should do. How old is your preamplifier and coaxial cable? What kind of VHF antenna is it? Can you get us a picture of it if you don't know what it is?

You do realize that many of the digital stations that are in NYC and Philly will be changing frequencies after the 17th of the month? You may find that the stations with which you are having issues may reappear after that time.

okay I have channel master it is the full range preamp the ultra low noise the 7778 or the 7777. one for the vhf & uhf antenna

for the 91xg I have a uhf only preamp.

I just purchased a 100foot piece of rg11 for the run inside the house from the inside preamp to the mac elgato tuner signal picked up a bit. i can see i will need to buy two pieces of rg11 to go from the antenna's outside to the preamps inside. I kind of need to know that on these really fringe stations what can be done to pick them up. also does anyone have a link for the double 91xg set up. i will get the names of the antenna and the preamps's I did not give. oh the outside wire is belden rg6 brillance 3 or 4 years old.

philipma1957 · 02-03-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

We would need to see what you have for equipment before passing judgement on what you should do. How old is your preamplifier and coaxial cable? What kind of VHF antenna is it? Can you get us a picture of it if you don't know what it is?

You do realize that many of the digital stations that are in NYC and Philly will be changing frequencies after the 17th of the month? You may find that the stations with which you are having issues may reappear after that time.

I printed out the new station due in a few weeks it appears that I will pick up 12 philiadelphia a pbs station. I will wait til spring before I do any rooftop work.

philipma1957 · 02-04-2009, 12:42 PM

My large antenna is a delhi vu-937sr. It uses a channel master titan. I have a hy-gain rotor and a nice tower from glen martin

with the vu-8pz this is huge super big antenna

this preamp feeds to this

this has 8 outputs to 3 tvs 1 vcr/dvd recorder and 3 radios. I have been in this home 17 years no analog problems over the last 10 years the first 5 to 7 years Was a learning curve. I am 45 miles from NYC and 55 Miles from Philiadelphia. good solid reception with analog. also good fm radio. this Hdtv has really bothered me. So far on your site I learned about tv fool looks like a lot of info.

I have a 91xg stacked above my delhi it uses a research communications preamp from england.

type 9260 very low noise see link

that runs 100 feet from the roof to this preamp that I just added

[
which is a cpa-19 clearstream preamp.

it then runs 100 feet on rg11 to my mac mini and uses an elgato 250 plus tuner. the good thing is I can record in hdtv right on my hard drive and play it back on my monitor in 1080i or 720p. I guess I need to wait and see what they do on the 17th. The roof is full of ice from the storm yesterday. I am thinking that using rg11 from the roof will help. I just get such low signal strength numbers on the elgato only 45 percent adding the second preamp from antennasdirect boosted the signal from 35 to 45 percent. In both cases quality is 100 percent. quality drops to zero when strength gets to 20 or 23 percent.

this errorred me out says I can't post links until I am around a while. so all the links are missing on this post sorry. phil

tigerbangs · 02-04-2009, 12:55 PM

You have the best all-channel antenna currently made, and if you are having problems,I have to wonder where your issue lies: bad cable? bad "F" fittings? You just aren't all that far from the NYC transmitters to have trouble with that rig. Do you have another ATSC tuner that you can try for comparison? My experience is that USB-type tuner cards are not nearly as sensitive as their component or built-in counterparts.

I suspect that, if we do the math, that you may have too many splits from your antenna for the preamplifier to handle alone. Is your 8 way splitter a 1 gHz or better model? Many splitters roll off the high UHF frequencies in such a way that they can really quash UHF digital reception. We may also want to look at a small distribution amplifier like a Winegard HDA-100 after the preamplifier's power supply to overcome the losses inherent in a system as large as yours...

philipma1957 · 02-04-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

You have the best all-channel antenna currently made, and if you are having problems,I have to wonder where your issue lies: bad cable? bad "F" fittings? You just aren't all that far from the NYC transmitters to have trouble with that rig. Do you have another ATSC tuner that you can try for comparison? My experience is that USB-type tuner cards are not nearly as sensitive as their component or built-in counterparts.

I suspect that, if we do the math, that you may have too many splits from your antenna for the preamplifier to handle alone. Is your 8 way splitter a 1 gHz or better model? Many splitters roll off the high UHF frequencies in such a way that they can really quash UHF digital reception. We may also want to look at a small distribution amplifier like a Winegard HDA-100 after the preamplifier's power supply to overcome the losses inherent in a system as large as yours...

I got the feeling that the problem is the outside rg6 cable. I have not climbed out on the roof this year so I have not done an inspection since sept. or oct. 2007 Thanks for input This spring i am going up on the roof and replacing all coax with rg11. I think with 2 more posts i get a green light to post links and pictures. I figured I should be doing better with signal strength. I have 2 tuners for analog tv to digital tuner. so I can test them tomorrow. thanks phil

Roulette · 02-04-2009, 08:09 PM

Tigerbangs, I believe it was in your second post that you advised using silicone tape from Radio Shack. I haven't read all 59 pages of threads, so I don't know whether someone else made a comment. The RS store in my town (Redlands, CA) is rather large and has a lot of stuff. The manager, however, tells me that he doesn't stock silicone tape, and never even heard of it.

So, I bought some rubber boots and found that if there's a connector at both ends of the cable, they are impossible to install. You just can't get the boot over the RG-6 connector on a RS cable. I suppose that I could slit the boot lengthwise, slip it onto the cable and tape it closed with electrical tape. It isn't very neat, but I guess I have no choice.

philipma1957 · 02-04-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulette

Tigerbangs, I believe it was in your second post that you advised using silicone tape from Radio Shack. I haven't read all 59 pages of threads, so I don't know whether someone else made a comment. The RS store in my town (Redlands, CA) is rather large and has a lot of stuff. The manager, however, tells me that he doesn't stock silicone tape, and never even heard of it.

So, I bought some rubber boots and found that if there's a connector at both ends of the cable, they are impossible to install. You just can't get the boot over the RG-6 connector on a RS cable. I suppose that I could slit the boot lengthwise, slip it onto the cable and tape it closed with electrical tape. It isn't very neat, but I guess I have no choice.

electrical tape will not work this will see link

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1140

philipma1957 · 02-04-2009, 09:34 PM

link for coax seal

http://www.coaxseal.com/

Roulette · 02-06-2009, 01:09 AM

Thanks. I just ordered some Coax Seal tape. It looks like it's good for repairing damaged line cords, as well.

philipma1957 · 02-06-2009, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulette

Thanks. I just ordered some Coax Seal tape. It looks like it's good for repairing damaged line cords, as well.

I use it a lot. It is softer and more pliable. If it is in a high traffic area I wrap a piece of duct tape over it.

w0en · 02-06-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulette

Thanks. I just ordered some Coax Seal tape. It looks like it's good for repairing damaged line cords, as well.

It can be messy stuff, many wrap with electrical tape before they apply the coaxseal, I have heard it's hard to get off to redo or disconnect a connector.

netvandal · 02-06-2009, 08:41 PM

Tigerbangs,

Thanks for all the great info. I've been reading a lot of your stuff and its been very helpful.

I'm in an area with a couple of local PBS stations and an ABC translator, but where the other major networks all come from about 60 miles away (my zip code is 83843) I'm currently getting NBC on 15, CBS on 20, and FOX on 30. After the transition, FOX moves to 28 and the others stay the same. I get a few too many dropouts with my DB-4 and winegard 8275 preamp combo. Since all my channels of interest are relatively low on UFH, what do you think of the PR-8800? The antenna comparison at hdtvprimer show it to be better then XG91 below about channel 35, and from the look of my analog signals, I'm not having multipath issues.

If you've answered a similar question before, I apologize, I searched but must have missed it.

alphanguy · 02-09-2009, 11:39 PM

Tigerbangs, I'd be interested to get your thought on that as well, as I'm also looking to go for a model with best Low UHF gain. One thing puzzles the hell out of me, according to that gain curve chart that HDTVprimer puts out, the Winegard pr-9032 has a gain at channel 14 of 10dbi, or 8 dbd. But the technical specs at Winegard's website give that model's gain as 14.9db over a referenced dipole (So, is that a dbd reading?) at channel 14.... quite a discrepancy, I was like... WTF?

Midwest Dxer · 02-10-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulette

Thanks. I just ordered some Coax Seal tape. It looks like it's good for repairing damaged line cords, as well.

I still use coax seal for some things,but I've found using self fusing silicone rubber tape overwrapped with Scotch 33+ is much better for all things exterior,plus,you don't have the mess if you have to undo something.The self fusing tape can be found in most harware stores in the electrical section next to the vinyl tapes.It must be overwrapped or it will disintegrate in 30 days outdoors.

02-03-2009, 02:07 PM	#841
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	We would need to see what you have for equipment before passing judgement on what you should do. How old is your preamplifier and coaxial cable? What kind of VHF antenna is it? Can you get us a picture of it if you don't know what it is? You do realize that many of the digital stations that are in NYC and Philly will be changing frequencies after the 17th of the month? You may find that the stations with which you are having issues may reappear after that time. __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women! Last edited by tigerbangs; 02-03-2009 at 02:11 PM.

02-04-2009, 12:42 PM	#844
philipma1957 I need more power. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: HOWELL NEW JERSEY Posts: 16	did the research delhi vu-937sr My large antenna is a delhi vu-937sr. It uses a channel master titan. I have a hy-gain rotor and a nice tower from glen martin with the vu-8pz this is huge super big antenna this preamp feeds to this this has 8 outputs to 3 tvs 1 vcr/dvd recorder and 3 radios. I have been in this home 17 years no analog problems over the last 10 years the first 5 to 7 years Was a learning curve. I am 45 miles from NYC and 55 Miles from Philiadelphia. good solid reception with analog. also good fm radio. this Hdtv has really bothered me. So far on your site I learned about tv fool looks like a lot of info. I have a 91xg stacked above my delhi it uses a research communications preamp from england. type 9260 very low noise see link that runs 100 feet from the roof to this preamp that I just added [ which is a cpa-19 clearstream preamp. it then runs 100 feet on rg11 to my mac mini and uses an elgato 250 plus tuner. the good thing is I can record in hdtv right on my hard drive and play it back on my monitor in 1080i or 720p. I guess I need to wait and see what they do on the 17th. The roof is full of ice from the storm yesterday. I am thinking that using rg11 from the roof will help. I just get such low signal strength numbers on the elgato only 45 percent adding the second preamp from antennasdirect boosted the signal from 35 to 45 percent. In both cases quality is 100 percent. quality drops to zero when strength gets to 20 or 23 percent. this errorred me out says I can't post links until I am around a while. so all the links are missing on this post sorry. phil

02-04-2009, 12:55 PM	#845
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	You have the best all-channel antenna currently made, and if you are having problems,I have to wonder where your issue lies: bad cable? bad "F" fittings? You just aren't all that far from the NYC transmitters to have trouble with that rig. Do you have another ATSC tuner that you can try for comparison? My experience is that USB-type tuner cards are not nearly as sensitive as their component or built-in counterparts. I suspect that, if we do the math, that you may have too many splits from your antenna for the preamplifier to handle alone. Is your 8 way splitter a 1 gHz or better model? Many splitters roll off the high UHF frequencies in such a way that they can really quash UHF digital reception. We may also want to look at a small distribution amplifier like a Winegard HDA-100 after the preamplifier's power supply to overcome the losses inherent in a system as large as yours... __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-04-2009, 09:34 PM	#849
philipma1957 I need more power. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: HOWELL NEW JERSEY Posts: 16	more coaxseal info link for coax seal http://www.coaxseal.com/

02-09-2009, 11:39 PM	#854
alphanguy High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177	Yes Tigerbangs, I'd be interested to get your thought on that as well, as I'm also looking to go for a model with best Low UHF gain. One thing puzzles the hell out of me, according to that gain curve chart that HDTVprimer puts out, the Winegard pr-9032 has a gain at channel 14 of 10dbi, or 8 dbd. But the technical specs at Winegard's website give that model's gain as 14.9db over a referenced dipole (So, is that a dbd reading?) at channel 14.... quite a discrepancy, I was like... WTF? Last edited by alphanguy; 02-10-2009 at 12:48 AM.

02-04-2009, 08:09 PM	#847
Roulette How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Redlands, CA Age: 77 Posts: 15	Tigerbangs, I believe it was in your second post that you advised using silicone tape from Radio Shack. I haven't read all 59 pages of threads, so I don't know whether someone else made a comment. The RS store in my town (Redlands, CA) is rather large and has a lot of stuff. The manager, however, tells me that he doesn't stock silicone tape, and never even heard of it. So, I bought some rubber boots and found that if there's a connector at both ends of the cable, they are impossible to install. You just can't get the boot over the RG-6 connector on a RS cable. I suppose that I could slit the boot lengthwise, slip it onto the cable and tape it closed with electrical tape. It isn't very neat, but I guess I have no choice.

02-06-2009, 01:09 AM	#850
Roulette How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Redlands, CA Age: 77 Posts: 15	Thanks. I just ordered some Coax Seal tape. It looks like it's good for repairing damaged line cords, as well.

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