tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

torymon · 01-25-2009, 02:35 AM

Hiya Davepet!

Nice to see you in this forum too!

Quote:

If you have any post transitions stations staying on VHF, you may need a VHF antenna as well.

I don't know for sure but it seems like WKNO - PBS in Memphis might be staying but they're the only consistent channel I get on my DTV box right now.

Quote:

I'd give your SBGH a try first, though. I've picked up usable signals down to channel 2 with my crude version & I'm 140 miles from that station.

Now, THAT'S impressive!!! 140 miles!!! Congradulations on that!!!

I'm just about done with my first. Got the frame and reflectors built and bent the actives into shape. Got some epoxy work to do to stiffen the assembly then mount and brace the actives in position.
Probably be ready to test it Tuesday after I let the epoxy joints set.
Dave, if you could (or want to), send me a pic of your "crude version" SBGH to torymon at gmail dot com. I'd love to see it!
Which version did you build? As you might remember, I'm building a GH6 d2 wideband. With the materials I had on hand, that was my best option. I think it's one of J3d's designs.
After my testing with this project, I fully intend to build 300ohm's
Gen 2 SBGH GH10. I didn't do this right off in that I'd have to buy materials for the construction. Gotta save up for that! Even $25 or $30 bucks is alot on a fixed income!
I hope my next 'big' purchase will be the CM7777 preamp... that's a given necessity!
Appreciate the info!
later!
torymon
Oh... I mean, uh... ps... are you using just the SBGH or do you have an antenna 'array'? I mean like your old VHF and your SBGH coupled together, with a preamp etc. Details man... give, give!!! Later, T.

jim5506 · 01-25-2009, 04:41 PM

After the transition Memphis will have 2 VHF digital channels: 5 and 13. The remainder will be UHF but there is also a channel 10 showing up as a NEW station in tha area.

I recommended the HD7694P for VHF high band and UHF reception and pick up the channel 5 on a seperate yagi.

Who knows channel 5 may be strong enough you can get it on the 7694, I pick up a local VHF high (ch 9) on my RS U75-R in the attic.

tigerbangs · 01-25-2009, 04:57 PM

When I ran a TVfool.com scan of your coordinates, you are 60 miles from Memphis, and you really need a deep-fringe solution if you want reliable reception, espcially on WMC-DT, which will be on channel 5. If this was my call, I'd use an AntennasDirect XG-91 UHF antenna and a Wade-Delhi VIP-306SR with a Channel Master Titan 7777 preamplifier and a rotator. Yes, it's expensive, but it will work beter that the other suggestions made here. Some of the UHF digital stations that you will be looking for from Memphis are pretty weak, and you need all the antenna that you can muster. You can't get away from the fact that WMC-DT will be back on channel 5, and you won't get a usuable picture on WMC-DT with a VHF-high-band antenna at 60 miles from the transmitter...final answer!

Davepet · 01-26-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torymon

Hiya Davepet!

Now, THAT'S impressive!!! 140 miles!!! Congradulations on that!!!

OK my Lat Lon is 39.283119, -120.690037. I'm around 5300 ' elevation & overlook the Sacramento Valley. With a 30' antenna height, TVfool say I have LOS to all the Sacramento towers & many of the San Francisco bay area towers. It doesn't mention channel 2, but at times 2 comes in fine, go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torymon

Dave, if you could (or want to), send me a pic of your "crude version" SBGH to torymon at gmail dot com. I'd love to see it!

I sent it, don't laugh too hard, it actually did what I said it did. I'm building a more refined version soon.

Q

Quote:

Originally Posted by torymon

UOTE=torymon;806892]
Oh... I mean, uh... ps... are you using just the SBGH or do you have an antenna 'array'? I mean like your old VHF and your SBGH coupled together, with a preamp etc. Details man... give, give!!! Later, T.

I'm using one antenna at a time at this point. I may need to use 2 eventually, but I'll wait & see until the transition is done. I am in a pretty clean signal environment here, so I've gotten by with a distribution amp so far. I plan on upgrading to a CM 7777 no matter what antenna I end up with.

Dave

ziggy29 · 01-28-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davepet

OK my Lat Lon is 39.283119, -120.690037. I'm around 5300 ' elevation & overlook the Sacramento Valley. With a 30' antenna height, TVfool say I have LOS to all the Sacramento towers & many of the San Francisco bay area towers. It doesn't mention channel 2, but at times 2 comes in fine, go figure.

WOW. I just ran the TV Fool on those coordinates, and this is unreal. You must feel on top of the world...

gjvrieze · 01-28-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29

WOW. I just ran the TV Fool on those coordinates, and this is unreal. You must feel on top of the world...

Ya, LOS at 80-120 miles, that is great!

torymon · 01-28-2009, 11:09 PM

yeh Dave,

I got your picture of the plywood hanging in the tree!!!

This goes to show just how amazing this antenna design is!
If that one does that well, imagine an improved design on a tower!
Wow!
later!

Davepet · 01-29-2009, 01:47 AM

Yeah, While I know I'm only a mile high, one gets the "top of the world" feeling up here.

torymon, I wondered if you got that, I don't think I could have come up with a cruder version of a SBGH if I deliberately tried. I'm gathering parts for a better build. I'm planning on a collinear rod design. I have a bunch of beefy 1/2" aluminum tube for the reflector rods, still working on how to support them. PEX tubing is too flexible for the snow loads up here. I'm thinking of a 1" PVC backbone with 1/2" PVC drilled in to hold the reflector rods. It's not a tight fit, but some silicone caulk should hold the rods OK.

I also have to support the ends of the active elements, or they will all point to the ground within a year. I've got a few ideas on that as well.

Have you made any progress with your build?

Dave

torymon · 01-29-2009, 09:37 AM

Hiya Dave!

Progress has been a little slower than I had hoped.

Family takes priority over my "pet" projects! That and 'engineering'!!!

Being as I am using fiberglass rods from old camping tents, I've had to stop and engineer each and every step of the process.
There was too much 'wobble' on the horizontal elements, corrected that, then there was the issue of mounting supports for the actives, which I believe I have solved and am planning construction and prototyping today. If all goes well, I should have the supports mounted today and can attach the active elements tomorrow.

Now, about the aluminum to copper connection points... another engineering feat in the works!

Can't solder copper to aluminum so I'm gonna have 'bolt' them together, then waterproof the joints. I'll get to that later!

Quote:

I'm thinking of a 1" PVC backbone with 1/2" PVC drilled in to hold the reflector rods. It's not a tight fit, but some silicone caulk should hold the rods OK.

I'd recommend using plumbers goop or a hot glue gun instead of caulk... Years of home repair experience has proven to me that caulk doesn't hold up well to weather exposure... you'd get a couple of years at best! It will last better if it's painted though. Another thought tho' is, if I'm not mistaken, pvc is transparent to radio waves so you could just run the rods inside pvc horizontals. The aluminum and the pvc would bolster each other in a symbiotic type relationship making the assembly stronger than the individual elements seperately.
Just a thought!
Good luck with it!
Tory

bobbuckner · 02-01-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

Where are you, and what are you trying to get?

I'm about 70 miles south of Tulsa, Oklahoma ( 35.229969°, -95.521763°) and would like to receive the Tulsa local stations 2, 6, 8, 23 as well as the two PBS stations 13-1 and 13-2 that are broadcast from the Eufaula area just a few miles from my home. I have the big antenna from Lowe's with an amplifier from Radio shack and can receive 8-1,8-2,8-3 and 23-1, but I must be at the limit of this equipment because the signal is pretty flaky. I suspect that Ft. Smith stations might be an option as well with a rotor.... I'm pretty good at following instructions and can do the installation, I would appreciate your help in determining what to buy and where to get it...I'm pretty rural here so I hope to order the stuff online.

gjvrieze · 02-01-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbuckner

I'm about 70 miles south of Tulsa, Oklahoma ( 35.229969°, -95.521763°) and would like to receive the Tulsa local stations 2, 6, 8, 23 as well as the two PBS stations 13-1 and 13-2 that are broadcast from the Eufaula area just a few miles from my home. I have the big antenna from Lowe's with an amplifier from Radio shack and can receive 8-1,8-2,8-3 and 23-1, but I must be at the limit of this equipment because the signal is pretty flaky. I suspect that Ft. Smith stations might be an option as well with a rotor.... I'm pretty good at following instructions and can do the installation, I would appreciate your help in determining what to buy and where to get it...I'm pretty rural here so I hope to order the stuff online.

I bet you are overloading on KOET-DT at 10 miles with the Radio Shack amp... How high is your antenna, and where is it aimed?

bobbuckner · 02-02-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjvrieze

I bet you are overloading on KOET-DT at 10 miles with the Radio Shack amp... How high is your antenna, and where is it aimed?

I'm pointing North to the Tulsa stations but it also points toward the local broadcast tower. Presently the antenna is about 6 feet above the peak of the house although I it is still some twenty feet below the the top of several nearby trees. I'm considering buying a tower as well as whatever recommendations I gather from the pros on this site.

gjvrieze · 02-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbuckner

I'm pointing North to the Tulsa stations but it also points toward the local broadcast tower. Presently the antenna is about 6 feet above the peak of the house although I it is still some twenty feet below the the top of several nearby trees. I'm considering buying a tower as well as whatever recommendations I gather from the pros on this site.

I really do not think a tower is "needed" Higher is almost always better, but your signals from Tulsa look pretty strong at 30ft.. I think first, you should figure what which model antenna you have, and I would "scrap" that RS amp right off of the bat for a Winegard HDP-269.... You may want to go with the "typical" 91XG and YA-1713 that we are always recommending, if you antenna is not up to par, but I have a strong idea, it may work fine with an amp that deals with overloading better then any RS amp.... (I think it may overload even pointed 100 degrees away from the KOET tower..)

ngzcaz · 02-02-2009, 05:21 PM

Gee.. as a newbie I would have liked to hear the answer to that question..

philipma1957 · 02-03-2009, 11:29 AM

I have had free analog for all my life. I live in howell nj . I am in between. Philiadelphia and New York City. I have a good setup for hdtv,but I have questions. I have the 91xg and a huge old school antenna 19 feet long that i have used for years. I picked it up from stark eclectronic years ago. I am getting a lot of hdtv but some channels That i have gotten for years as analog are not coming in. I have a few hdtv's and a Mac that uses elgato to pick up and record . My question is how do I interpert the tv fool printouts.

My antenna is 40 feet high I can go ten more feet. is it worth it? if a path says 1 edge or 2edge or tropo what do I do?

01-25-2009, 04:41 PM	#827
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,416	After the transition Memphis will have 2 VHF digital channels: 5 and 13. The remainder will be UHF but there is also a channel 10 showing up as a NEW station in tha area. I recommended the HD7694P for VHF high band and UHF reception and pick up the channel 5 on a seperate yagi. Who knows channel 5 may be strong enough you can get it on the 7694, I pick up a local VHF high (ch 9) on my RS U75-R in the attic. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

01-25-2009, 04:57 PM	#828
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,116	When I ran a TVfool.com scan of your coordinates, you are 60 miles from Memphis, and you really need a deep-fringe solution if you want reliable reception, espcially on WMC-DT, which will be on channel 5. If this was my call, I'd use an AntennasDirect XG-91 UHF antenna and a Wade-Delhi VIP-306SR with a Channel Master Titan 7777 preamplifier and a rotator. Yes, it's expensive, but it will work beter that the other suggestions made here. Some of the UHF digital stations that you will be looking for from Memphis are pretty weak, and you need all the antenna that you can muster. You can't get away from the fact that WMC-DT will be back on channel 5, and you won't get a usuable picture on WMC-DT with a VHF-high-band antenna at 60 miles from the transmitter...final answer! __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-03-2009, 11:29 AM	#840
philipma1957 I need more power. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: HOWELL NEW JERSEY Posts: 16	I AM NEW to this forum questions. I have had free analog for all my life. I live in howell nj . I am in between. Philiadelphia and New York City. I have a good setup for hdtv,but I have questions. I have the 91xg and a huge old school antenna 19 feet long that i have used for years. I picked it up from stark eclectronic years ago. I am getting a lot of hdtv but some channels That i have gotten for years as analog are not coming in. I have a few hdtv's and a Mac that uses elgato to pick up and record . My question is how do I interpert the tv fool printouts. My antenna is 40 feet high I can go ten more feet. is it worth it? if a path says 1 edge or 2edge or tropo what do I do?

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01-28-2009, 11:09 PM	#832
torymon My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5	yeh Dave, I got your picture of the plywood hanging in the tree!!! This goes to show just how amazing this antenna design is! If that one does that well, imagine an improved design on a tower! Wow! later!

01-29-2009, 01:47 AM	#833
Davepet How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northern Calif Posts: 15	Yeah, While I know I'm only a mile high, one gets the "top of the world" feeling up here. torymon, I wondered if you got that, I don't think I could have come up with a cruder version of a SBGH if I deliberately tried. I'm gathering parts for a better build. I'm planning on a collinear rod design. I have a bunch of beefy 1/2" aluminum tube for the reflector rods, still working on how to support them. PEX tubing is too flexible for the snow loads up here. I'm thinking of a 1" PVC backbone with 1/2" PVC drilled in to hold the reflector rods. It's not a tight fit, but some silicone caulk should hold the rods OK. I also have to support the ends of the active elements, or they will all point to the ground within a year. I've got a few ideas on that as well. Have you made any progress with your build? Dave

02-02-2009, 05:21 PM	#839
ngzcaz ngzcaz Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northeast Pa. Posts: 5	Gee.. as a newbie I would have liked to hear the answer to that question..