tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

CompuTech · 11-12-2008, 10:40 AM

Hi
I could tell you my zip code but it would not help much since I am surrounded by mountains and a few miles down the road in same zip code can get 2 to 3 times as many channels as listed on tvfool website .I used the coordinates on tvfool site instead of the address because that was completely wrong.
I also used terraserver online map to zoom in on my location with coordinates shown also which I used on tvfool.

My coordinates are close to 44.80428 North and 70.12307 West as shown on terraserver .
I can get channel 7,8,10,12,13 and 23 with alot of static . 23 and 10 being the strongest signals .I am using an antenna I made that looks much like the cm 4221 in design. I have the specs to build something similar to the CM 4228 but I think I would rather buy one all made.
I have a zenith dtv receiver ,so when everything goes digital,what would be the best setup for my area?

I also looked on a site called hdtvexpert and found that even in areas with mountains like where I live,you can sometimes get channels by having an antenna closer to the ground,using knife-edge refraction from the waves bending down the side of a mountain.The person showed that he used a Spectrum Analyzer to get waveforms of the stations to see where it would be the strongest signal. I can not make direct links to webpages that I am talking about but you can find them by just adding the com on end.
I do not have the test equipment that the guy had on that other site but it would be cool if I did.Not more guesswork if there is any signal to be had or not.

joesjunk · 11-13-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopitup2000

Joesjunk,

You've already got too much amplification; and possibly the wrong antenna if multipath(reflected signal) is high in your area.

An amp with 12-19 db of gain would be more appropriate if you are that close to the transmitters.

A Yagi style antenna may be needed to combat multi path also. Have you ever checked your analog reception for ghosting? The 4228 is an excellent antenna, but it does not tolerate multi path well.

hoopitup2000,
I changed out the Yagi antenna for the 4228 along with the amp because of the same problems with ATSC (Digital) signals during wind or rain. This was suggested by and engineer at one of the local TV stations. The NTSC (Analog) signals have the same problems, but, not nearly as bad. Both the digital and analog problems are very much worse without the amp installed.

Any other ideas???

Joe's Junk

hoopitup2000 · 11-13-2008, 03:46 PM

Hey Joe,

Go to www.tvfool.com, enter your address, and post the results. Then let us know what channel(s) you are having issues with. This will give us a better idea of your situation.

Glen

joesjunk · 11-14-2008, 03:43 PM

Here is a look at the TVFOOL info ->

Go to www dot picasaweb dot google dot com slash joesjunk6 slash AntennaInfo#5268526362361529586

picasaweb google com,
joesjunk6, AntennaInfo#5268526362361529586

Replace the commas with slashes (ie... , = /) and the spaces with dots (ie... = .) because the forum won't let me post a link.

Yes, I know it's a pain. But, I don't know how else to post it.

Joe's Junk in Raleigh, NC

Tower Guy · 11-15-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joesjunk

I have the “The Deep Fringe Prescription”

1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp (New)

Joe's Junk

You cannot use an amplifier. Your signals are too strong. Replace the 7777 with a UVSJ. Perhaps after the analog stations shut down you could try the amp again.

CompuTech · 11-16-2008, 05:26 PM

here is the link to hdtvexpert article on receiving good signal out on the fringe and having the antenna lower to the ground instead of up higher as you might usually have it on flat land.http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Re...TheFringe.html

I seem to be getting better signal,clearer picture with my test antenna closer to the ground. The only place higher than a side roof i tested, is it being attached to end of my house near the peak or put a mast on my chimney.I also pointed my antenna similar to the cm4221 towards a mountain to the east and my dtt901 dtv receiver picked up low signal for 2 stations 17 and 19.
My zip is 04956 . I am also getting channel 23 and 10 in color with some snow without an amp.

rrandolph · 11-17-2008, 12:49 AM

As suggested, I purchased the 91XG. While things got better, they are still poor. I hooked the antenna up to a Zenith DT900. I was able to get KOAC, which is blue/purple according to the TV Fool coverage maps. However, the Portland station, which TV Fool shows as green to orange, are still problems. TV Fool's maps must be way under-estimating the effect of the ridge and trees. If I point the antenna just right, I can get KGW and KOPB (50% to 70% signal according to the DT900). Unfortunately, these two channels will change to VHF in February. The ABC and CBS stations (KATU and KOIN) will not change. With this antenna, the DT900 now at least sees a 25% signal on these stations, but it can't decode them.

Should I try a Channel Master 777 amp? Is there something else to try?

FYI, I also bought the YA-1713, but I haven't tried it yet since the major stations won't be on VHF until February.

Coordinates: 45.58, -122.8155

wrigleydog · 11-17-2008, 08:56 PM

79705

I have Dish Network HDTV, but we do not get the locals in HD in Midland, Texas. I believe all I need is UHF. Most important channels to me are CBS and ABC.

Tell me what I need. Thanks in advance.

jwatts · 11-18-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwatts

For Tigerbangs or any one else with an idea,

I need a little advice…. regarding my antenna setup.
I have essentially your recommendation: “The Deep Fringe Prescription”
1 Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna
1 Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF antenna
1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp
1 Channel Master 9521a rotator
30' antenna height from the roofline peak
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also have the XG-91 antenna that I can work into the system if it would help.

I’m located in Paradise CA 95969
My elevation is 1900 feet.
I have some large pine trees between me and the line of sight to the Sacramento station locations to the south.
I pull in good digital reception from about 14 stations and about the same number of analog stations. They are mostly Sacramento, local and one from Santa Rosa. Some are more than 100 miles distant.
My problem is that some of the distant stations tend to pixilate out at times, depending on the weather. I especially have trouble with Channel 3.1 (NBC)-104 miles and Channel 6.1 & 6.2 (PBS)-103 miles. I think 3 is on frequency 35(UHF). I believe 6 will be moving to VHF 9 after February. (I guess I will need to keep my VIP-306) Other Sacramento stations at the same distance seem to come in fairly consistently. Sometimes moving rotor helps lock in a station at a little different angle than normal – maybe it’s the weather? I wish it was a little more consistent.

Would it be possible to somehow add the XG-91 in between the 4228 and the VIP-306? Or would it be better to replace the 4228 with the XG-91? I’m hoping to find a way to get just a little bit better signal so that it locks in all of the time. It seems to pixilated out just when I get really interested in a good PBS program -- very annoying!

I haven’t really tried the XG-91 in the mix yet. I was sort of waiting till the February finals.

Tigerbangs, you have certainly helped many of us through this change over! Thanks!

JWatts

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone help me with this question regarding the best choice for my situation? See underlined above.

jim5506 · 11-18-2008, 01:00 PM

You will have two VHF digital channels in Feb 2009.

KOSA-DT on channel 7 (CBS) and KWES-DT on channel 9 (NBC).

All stations are line of sight, try a Winegard HD-7694P.

smdp1 · 11-20-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwatts

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone help me with this question regarding the best choice for my situation? See underlined above.

I would take the 4228 down just for wind load reduction.....

stampeder · 11-22-2008, 11:26 AM

Hi tigerbangs, just a question about the recommendation for the Winegard YA-1713 for VHF-HIGH channels - Ken Nist's testing at hdtvprimer has shown a very serious dropoff on channel 13 with that antenna, and now Winegard is selling the new HD7697P and HD7698P VHF-HIGH/UHF combos, which they claim have a much flatter bandwidth response. VHF gain is up to about 12dB, and UHF gain goes up to about 13 or 14 dB too. I haven't heard boo about the new antenna so I'm just wondering if we have a new prescription in the making for those wanting a combo?

cheers from up north!
stampeder

stampeder · 12-02-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Winegard YA-1713 for VHF-HIGH channels - Ken Nist's testing at hdtvprimer has shown a very serious dropoff on channel 13 with that antenna

I'm going to backtrack on this claim due to some informaton I've received that suggests a problem with the computer model of the YA-1713.

It would be most unlikely that Winegard would distribute an antenna with such a glaring problem.

cheers

bobbuckner · 12-02-2008, 07:08 PM

Tiger,

I'm ready to buy the deep fringe prescription. Just a couple of questions first.

1. To receive only digital are both antennas required, and if not which one for digital?

2. If only one antenna is required do I still use Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp

3. Where is the best online source for the required components?

Thanks for sharing your expertise

gcd0865 · 12-03-2008, 01:02 PM

I use a YA-1713, and on analog 11 and 13 (which are both 65 miles from me), the signal strength is about the same, so I haven't experienced any such sharp dropoff for channel 13 with that antenna.

11-12-2008, 10:40 AM	#736
CompuTech My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Western Mountains,ME Posts: 6	sites for exact location and need new antenna Hi I could tell you my zip code but it would not help much since I am surrounded by mountains and a few miles down the road in same zip code can get 2 to 3 times as many channels as listed on tvfool website .I used the coordinates on tvfool site instead of the address because that was completely wrong. I also used terraserver online map to zoom in on my location with coordinates shown also which I used on tvfool. My coordinates are close to 44.80428 North and 70.12307 West as shown on terraserver . I can get channel 7,8,10,12,13 and 23 with alot of static . 23 and 10 being the strongest signals .I am using an antenna I made that looks much like the cm 4221 in design. I have the specs to build something similar to the CM 4228 but I think I would rather buy one all made. I have a zenith dtv receiver ,so when everything goes digital,what would be the best setup for my area? I also looked on a site called hdtvexpert and found that even in areas with mountains like where I live,you can sometimes get channels by having an antenna closer to the ground,using knife-edge refraction from the waves bending down the side of a mountain.The person showed that he used a Spectrum Analyzer to get waveforms of the stations to see where it would be the strongest signal. I can not make direct links to webpages that I am talking about but you can find them by just adding the com on end. I do not have the test equipment that the guy had on that other site but it would be cool if I did.Not more guesswork if there is any signal to be had or not. Last edited by CompuTech; 11-12-2008 at 11:55 AM. Reason: More information to find help

11-14-2008, 03:43 PM	#739
joesjunk My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7	Wind and rain interference Here is a look at the TVFOOL info -> Go to www dot picasaweb dot google dot com slash joesjunk6 slash AntennaInfo#5268526362361529586 picasaweb google com, joesjunk6, AntennaInfo#5268526362361529586 Replace the commas with slashes (ie... , = /) and the spaces with dots (ie... = .) because the forum won't let me post a link. Yes, I know it's a pain. But, I don't know how else to post it. Joe's Junk in Raleigh, NC

11-17-2008, 12:49 AM	#742
rrandolph What is HD? Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3	My Troubles Continue As suggested, I purchased the 91XG. While things got better, they are still poor. I hooked the antenna up to a Zenith DT900. I was able to get KOAC, which is blue/purple according to the TV Fool coverage maps. However, the Portland station, which TV Fool shows as green to orange, are still problems. TV Fool's maps must be way under-estimating the effect of the ridge and trees. If I point the antenna just right, I can get KGW and KOPB (50% to 70% signal according to the DT900). Unfortunately, these two channels will change to VHF in February. The ABC and CBS stations (KATU and KOIN) will not change. With this antenna, the DT900 now at least sees a 25% signal on these stations, but it can't decode them. Should I try a Channel Master 777 amp? Is there something else to try? FYI, I also bought the YA-1713, but I haven't tried it yet since the major stations won't be on VHF until February. Coordinates: 45.58, -122.8155

11-17-2008, 08:56 PM	#743
wrigleydog Wreck Em Texas Tech Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2	Newbie Needs Advice 79705 I have Dish Network HDTV, but we do not get the locals in HD in Midland, Texas. I believe all I need is UHF. Most important channels to me are CBS and ABC. Tell me what I need. Thanks in advance.

11-18-2008, 01:00 PM	#745
jim5506 Yellow Submarine Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,416	You will have two VHF digital channels in Feb 2009. KOSA-DT on channel 7 (CBS) and KWES-DT on channel 9 (NBC). All stations are line of sight, try a Winegard HD-7694P. __________________ Programming: Dish HD Absolute with 0.01 Cinemax Displays: Sony VPH-D50Q - 7 ft on the wall; Hitachi 57R59 Receivers: DishNetwork ViP722k; DishNetwork ViP211K; DishNetwork ViP211; DishNetwork 301; 2 - TiVo Series 2's; Accurian 6000; Samsung SIR-T351; Panasonic ShowStopper 2000; ATI HDTV Wonder Dish 1000 on 110,119,129; Dish 500 on 61.5; DPP44 Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

11-13-2008, 03:46 PM	#738
hoopitup2000 No Static At All Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arlington, Va Posts: 408	Hey Joe, Go to www.tvfool.com, enter your address, and post the results. Then let us know what channel(s) you are having issues with. This will give us a better idea of your situation. Glen

11-16-2008, 05:26 PM	#741
CompuTech My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Western Mountains,ME Posts: 6	here is the link to hdtvexpert article on receiving good signal out on the fringe and having the antenna lower to the ground instead of up higher as you might usually have it on flat land.http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Re...TheFringe.html I seem to be getting better signal,clearer picture with my test antenna closer to the ground. The only place higher than a side roof i tested, is it being attached to end of my house near the peak or put a mast on my chimney.I also pointed my antenna similar to the cm4221 towards a mountain to the east and my dtt901 dtv receiver picked up low signal for 2 stations 17 and 19. My zip is 04956 . I am also getting channel 23 and 10 in color with some snow without an amp.

11-22-2008, 11:26 AM	#747
stampeder Canadian OTA Guy Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Delta, BC, Canada Posts: 43	New Winegard VHF-HIGH/UHF model HD7697P and HD7698P Hi tigerbangs, just a question about the recommendation for the Winegard YA-1713 for VHF-HIGH channels - Ken Nist's testing at hdtvprimer has shown a very serious dropoff on channel 13 with that antenna, and now Winegard is selling the new HD7697P and HD7698P VHF-HIGH/UHF combos, which they claim have a much flatter bandwidth response. VHF gain is up to about 12dB, and UHF gain goes up to about 13 or 14 dB too. I haven't heard boo about the new antenna so I'm just wondering if we have a new prescription in the making for those wanting a combo? cheers from up north! stampeder Last edited by stampeder; 11-22-2008 at 11:36 AM.

12-02-2008, 07:08 PM	#749
bobbuckner My plasma is High Def. Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shore of Beautiful Lake Eufaula Posts: 7	Tiger, I'm ready to buy the deep fringe prescription. Just a couple of questions first. 1. To receive only digital are both antennas required, and if not which one for digital? 2. If only one antenna is required do I still use Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp 3. Where is the best online source for the required components? Thanks for sharing your expertise

12-03-2008, 01:02 PM	#750
gcd0865 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 31	I use a YA-1713, and on analog 11 and 13 (which are both 65 miles from me), the signal strength is about the same, so I haven't experienced any such sharp dropoff for channel 13 with that antenna.

Similar Threads to tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
OTA signal quality	krazykevin	Local HDTV Info and Reception	16	04-02-2006 05:48 PM