tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

hoopitup2000

Use a UVSJ to join the VHF and UHF antennas. About 0.5 db insertion loss.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=UVSJ

jbabb

go to solidsignal.com the antenna direct antenna is cheaper there. also you they have a larger supply of other stuff.
also summitsource.com for the coupler

afineguy

Hi Everyone, New to the forum but have some issues concerning choices for where I'm about to move to. My zipcode is 19938. I know it's best to mount antennas outside the house but due to the restrictions of my community my only option would be to mount it inside my attic. I'm looking to pick up Philadelphia stations and possibly Baltimore stations. I do know that post transition 6.1 in Philly is going to be 6 still. Nothing major in the area as far as structures. There is a water tower about 1/4 mile away and the area is very flat. I'd like to get the channel master 4228. Any other suggestions?!?!?!? Any and all help is greatly appreciated from all.

hoopitup2000

What a great location!! You've got 4 receivable DMA's, but with the attic mount; 3 look very doable(Balt/Philly/Salisbury) I don't think the 4228 would be a good fit since there are a few VHF stations @ 50-60 miles. You'll need a real VHF/UHF antenna.(WBAL-NBC11 in Baltimore is only slated to have 5kw after the transition;OUCH). I wouldn't even bother with WPVI-ABC6 from Philly. It would require quite a large antenna for an attic mount.

I'd go with a Winegard HD-7696P, or similar, with a rotor and Channel master 7777 pre-amp. I know it is large compared to the 4228(discontinued), but a real VHF antenna requires more elements.

If you prefer not to go with a rotor, Baltimore may be your best bet because of the issue with VHF channel 6 in Philly.

Tower Guy

I'd do two or three antennas plus an A/B switch and skip the rotor.

Baltimore is strong with channels from 11-46. The Antennacraft HBU-22 covers 7-69 and is inexpensive.

Philadelphia has channels from 6-42. I would not write off WPVI. Channel 6 has about 20 db excess signal and the loss through the roof will be less on low band VHF. A medium to large all-channel antenna is called for. I like the Winegard HD-7082P or HD-7084P. There are cheaper antennas that do OK in the attic.

The third antenna is for WBOC, CBS on channel 21. Here's where a UHF only is the right choice. The 4221 may be big enough and fits better in an attic. Then I'd get a Jointenna tuned to channel 21 and add WBOC to whichever of the other two antennas you use the most.

I'd try it first without a preamp, and add one or two if you have reception problems.

j_radcliffe

I live 68 miles form Syracuse, zip code 14873-9433. I have called Warren Electronics for their thoughts on what I should purchase to replace a bent multi-band antenna, and non functioning masthead amp. They have suggested CM-4228HD antenna, and a Winegard AP8275. I spoke to the engineer at one of the Syracuse TV stations and he suggested a UHF only amp. I think I would rather have a VHF UHF amp, as I might be able to pull some Rochester TV sometimes. There will be some VHF hi band TV post Feb 17 next year in Rochester. My mast has a rotator, and is about 30' off the ground, and I have a good view of the horizion toward Syracuse. Would a Channel master 7777 amp be a better choice in your opinion, the UHF noise is 2.0 dB, rather than 2.8 for the 8275 amplifier?

tigerbangs

No one really knows how good the new 4228HD is going to be: I haven't gotten my hands on one yet. In your situation, you also have the Elmira and Binghamton stations available to you, and I would suggest an AntennasDirect XG-91 and a Winegard YA-1713 VHF-hi yagi, since Binghamton will have 2 VHF stations after the digital transition. Use the Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp: it has lower noise and separate VHF and UHF inputs to make installing the two antennas easier,

__________________
Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

afineguy

If I were to mount the antennas inside the attic, would I mount them on the same mast or different areas of the attic? How far apart should they be mounted? How good is the Channelmaster Crossfire antennas ie., gain and size? I would prefer the Philly stations first. What other DMA is available to me besides Philly, Baltimore, and Salisbury? Thanks in advance.

hoopitup2000

"What other DMA is available to me besides Philly, Baltimore, and Salisbury?"

Washington DC should be receivable with a rooftop antenna; but doubtful with an attic antenna.

hoopitup2000

Also, WBOC-CBS16 from Salisbury, MD is now broadcasting their local news in HD. It looks incredibly good!! I'm not sure about Philly, but only 1 station in Baltimore has local news in HD(WBFF-FOX45)

Tower Guy

That depends on the size and shape of your attic. Antennas should not aim at each other and be at least 3' apart.

afineguy

I want to thank Towerguy and Hoopitup for your suggestions. I will certainly look into them. I really never gave Winegard any thought but I'll take a look at them as well. I have an old CM3016 I used to use and not on the roof anymore therefore the preference to Channelmaster. I even thought about Tigerbangs' suggestion of a Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF Ant but I think it may be too large. I have to find a dealer that sells them. I'll keep you updated on my progress!!!

jwatts

For Tigerbangs or any one else with an idea,

I need a little advice…. regarding my antenna setup.
I have essentially your recommendation: “The Deep Fringe Prescription”
1 Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna
1 Wade-Delhi VIP-306 VHF antenna
1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp
1 Channel Master 9521a rotator
30' antenna height from the roofline peak
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also have the XG-91 antenna that I can work into the system if it would help.

I’m located in Paradise CA 95969
My elevation is 1900 feet.
I have some large pine trees between me and the line of sight to the Sacramento station locations to the south.
I pull in good digital reception from about 14 stations and about the same number of analog stations. They are mostly Sacramento, local and one from Santa Rosa. Some are more than 100 miles distant.
My problem is that some of the distant stations tend to pixilate out at times, depending on the weather. I especially have trouble with Channel 3.1 (NBC)-104 miles and Channel 6.1 & 6.2 (PBS)-103 miles. I think 3 is on frequency 35(UHF). I believe 6 will be moving to VHF 9 after February. (I guess I will need to keep my VIP-306) Other Sacramento stations at the same distance seem to come in fairly consistently. Sometimes moving rotor helps lock in a station at a little different angle than normal – maybe it’s the weather? I wish it was a little more consistent.

Would it be possible to somehow add the XG-91 in between the 4228 and the VIP-306? Or would it be better to replace the 4228 with the XG-91? I’m hoping to find a way to get just a little bit better signal so that it locks in all of the time. It seems to pixilated out just when I get really interested in a good PBS program -- very annoying!

I haven’t really tried the XG-91 in the mix yet. I was sort of waiting till the February finals.

Tigerbangs, you have certainly helped many of us through this change over! Thanks!


JWatts

joesjunk

I have the “The Deep Fringe Prescription”

1 Channel Master Titan 7777 preamp (New)
1 Channel Master 9521a rotator
1 Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna (New)
Antenna is about 30' off the ground.
50 foot RG-6 lead in.
Feeding a 40" Sony LCD TV.
No Cable, No Dish.
15 to 30 miles from the transmitters.

I receive all the channels in the green area except during windy or rainy weather conditions. I get signal loss and pixelation. On calm clear days/nights the reception is flawless. I've been told that there is a 150 foot hill between me and the transmitter and that I'm receiving a reflected signal.

Question: Would an additional signal amplifier help?

I've been looking at the Kitz and the Channel Master amps.
I do have a 4 way splitter. But, removing it has no affect.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your help,

Joe's Junk

hoopitup2000

Joesjunk,

You've already got too much amplification; and possibly the wrong antenna if multipath(reflected signal) is high in your area.

An amp with 12-19 db of gain would be more appropriate if you are that close to the transmitters.

A yagi style antenna may be needed to combat multipath also. Have you ever checked your anlalog reception for ghosting? The 4228 is an excellent antenna, but it does not tolerate multipath well.