tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

spirit

After reading much I'm leaning towards this this system-----

Recapping my location:

Latitude 48.175362 °
N 48 ° 10' 31.3"
48 ° 10.5217' (degree m.mmmm)
Longitude -122.073032 °
W 122 ° 4' 22.9"
-122 ° 4.3819' (degree m.mmmm)


98223 is the zip


Available channels from the fool:

This shows me that after February channels 9,11,13 will still be in the VHF range. The first pass I thought all channels were UHF. We are far enough out that FM reception is poor on some stations.

For UHF I've considered the CM4228 and the Antenna Direct 91xg.

I'm favoring the 91xg because of the highly directional design. I feel this will do better against reflections from the mountains to the east of me not to mention trees. Also it is very easy to tilt up 10 to 15 degrees if necessary. To the south I have trees about 250 feet. Do I have to clear all trees in antenna height to expect good performance? To the north Bellingham direction the binocular approach applies. All cleared for several miles.

For the VHF antenna the Yagi 1713 which is designed for the upper VHF channel range. This seems in alignment with what I need in my usable channels. Will FM radio be ok with is guy? This one is smaller lighter and cheaper than the VIP 306. If the 1713 will do the job perhaps this is the one.

For the lighter system the CM9521 should support the lighter system?

I only have funding to take one stab at it.

Help me get it right out of the gate,

Spirit

videobruce

1. Welcome to the forums.
2. You won't have to worry about signal overload.
3. If you want to try for the Vancouver stations (90 miles NW & NNW), get a amp or preamp. It probably is a long shot as I don't know the terrain. I perfer a amp that is indoors, is easy to get at without the separate power supply.
4. I count 10 stations south of you all within range without a amp.
5. You should still be able to find the orginal 4228 if you search around. I don't think there is that much difference between the 91XG and the 4228 for your situation.
6. Mount the antenna as high as possible, guy it and ground it good.
7. 2150 doesn't show which stations are reverting back to VHF (if any). If your locals are, you want the 4228, not the 91xg.

Here is my 2150 serach results;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations

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spirit

Thanks videobruce---

I thought the philosophy of using an amplifier was to amplify the weak antenna signal right at the antenna before the weak signal moves along the hundreds of feet of coax picking up noise along the way hence improving the signal to noise ratio at the television end. I'm at a loss as to how you could place the amplifier at the tv end and expect as good a performance as putting it at the antenna. I was thinking of using the CM7777, because it has good noise characteristics and will alow me to combine the signals of two antennas (UHF, VHF) right at the mast.

Are there difference between the new CM4228HD and the older model? The performance comparisons look similiar to me. I will search for more information on this. In deciding between the 91xg and the cm4228HD you commented that it doesn't matter in my case which I choose. I would hope that there will be some degree of technical separation between the two that will guide my decision in the end. Perhaps you need more specific to help with the process.

TVFOOL seem to be telling me that Post Feb. the digital only will be 9, 11, 13 in the VHF range. I guess you are telling me this may not be accurate.

The desire to get FM and these three channels is what is driving me to look at the VIP 306 and the YA1713 (higher VHF channels) to add a second antenna 4 feet below the 91xg (possible configuration) sharing the same rotator, which is the CM9521 for the lighter assembly. If I go with the VIP306 and CM4228 I may need a Heavy Duty rotator.

Thanks for the comments, Spirit

videobruce

1. I never said anything about placing the amp at the TV. All I said was indoors, which includes a attic (or crawl space). The 15' to 25' of cable won't make that much difference and it is out of the weather and easy to access.
2. The 'new and improved' 4228 is made in China and supposely selling for MORE than the orginal made in USA version. AFAIC, it's just plain cheaper in all respects.
3. Regarding TV Fool, that probably is correct, it's 2150 that doesn't tell you what's happening after 2/09.
4. Whatever you are using for a rotor is probably ok, IF you get a 'thrust bearing' of some type to take some of the load off the bearings of the rotor.

5. You don't need to use the 'quote' feature to respond to a previous post.

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tophat

I would like to thank all the members of this site for the information that i have read here. First i would like to thank Jim5506 for giving me the information on the antennas, and Midwest DXER for the information of the hole for the base of my tower. By the way MIDWEST DXER i made the hole 5 1/2 ft. by 2 ft. by 2ft. with 6in. gravel in the bottom so when i poured the concrete i had 5 ft. with reebar and meash. my brother larry made the hinged base up and my brother dale did the welding . So i got the tower up last week and i am getting all my local channels. thanks again for all the help. tophat

Intravino

Hello,

I'm trying to get WVNY-DT Ch13 from my location on the South Shore of Montreal. I have a Delhi 10y13s and a CM 7777.

I pointed the antenna and I put some tilt on it ( tilted the back of the 10Y13s ) to get ch13 and I get the signal intermittently. My question is: On TV Fool, my location gives me a reading of -97.7 dbm for ch13 WVNY-DT, is that reading of -97.7 dbm very low ?

Is too low to get a good signal?

Here is the url for my TV Fool Report:

img222.imageshack.us/img222/8721/radarallpb7.png

Thanks,

Intravino

videobruce

1. Where are you?
2. You can't go by any of those numbers. It's only a guess, just as AntennaWeb is, which is why I don't use either,
3. That line of text isn't a web address,
4. Welcome to the forums.

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Intravino

1) Lat: 45.55447
Log: -73.22613
Beloeil, Quebec

2) ok

3) I cannot post url addresses until I get 5 posts.

//img222.imageshack.us/img222/8721/radarallpb7.png

4) Thank You.

BrianO

If you have line of sight to Mt. Mansfield from your location you should be able to get a good signal from WVNY-DT with the 10y13s. There are people in St. Eustache and Dorion (both further away from Mt. Mansfield than you) using the 10y13s with less powerful pre-amps than the CM Titan 7777 In fact, the fellow in St. Eustache has his antenna in his attic and still gets WVNY-DT using a 7778 (7dB less VHF gain than the 7777).

Two things come to mind. First, have you pointed the antenna correctly? (Narrow end towards Mt, Mansfield). If you used a compass to aim the antenna did you use the Magnetic bearing data from TVFool?

Second, have you set up the 7777 correctly? The VHF input on the 7777 is not active unless you open the 7777 and slide the switch inside to "Separate" UHF and VHF inputs.

videobruce

2150 returns these results;
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations

You have to understand the data is from the FCC, which in itself, is a unreliable source, especially when you have to decipher their data.
I can't imagine that you would ever be able to pick up those US stations 74 miles away in Burlington, unless you and they are both on mountain tops.

FWIW, I went out 130 miles and still no CBS affilates.

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Intravino

Two things come to mind. First, have you pointed the antenna correctly Yes, the balum is pointed at the opposite end of Mt Mainsfield. I did not use a compass for aiming, I stayed on the roof for 2 hours pointing the antenna. I found that the actual position now is the strongest 2-3 bar sometimes, from sunrise to sunset (sometimes 5 days out of 7 days )

Second, have you set up the 7777 correctly? Yes I did that, used the fm trap with the same results also.

I am not LOS with Mt. Mansfield because of Mont St. Gregoire that is in front about 30 km from my house.

I get 9 - 10 bars for WFFF and 10 Bars for WCAX, WPTZ, WCFE and WETK with 4228 and CM 7777.


Intravino

BrianO

Bruce,

All of the stations broadcasting from Mount Mansfield VT (79.6 miles from my house) both analogue and digital, with the exception of WVNY-DT with its weak signal on channel 13, are easy to receive OTA in the Montreal area (except in the downtown area with all its high buildings), and have been since WCAX (CBS) first went on the air in 1954. The Montreal area is a prime target for these stations because of the size of its popuation. The UHF channels are especially easy to receive. Furthermore by pointing a wide-beam antenna such as a CM 4221 about 10-15 degrees to the West of Mt. Mansfield, one can easily receive stations from Terry Mt NY (59.9 miles) and Lyon Mt NY(51.3 miles) without needing a rotator. The angle between MT. Mansfield and Lyon Mt from my house is 42 degrees. And apart from MT. Royal itself, the terrain is relatively flat and much of it less than 200 ft above sea level.

Unless the OP has a mountain or a tall building to the southeast of him blocking his line of sight to Mt. Mansfield, he should be able to pick up WVNY-DT with the 10y13s. Others living more than 80 miles away are doing so with that antenna using less amplification than that provided by the CM 7777.

I find it quite ironic that WVNY's analogue signal on channel 22 is by far the easiest of the Plattsburgh-Burlington stations to pick up in this area, yet their digital on channel 13 is the most difficult forcing people to resort to specialized antennas such as the 10y13s.

Update: I see that Intravino replied to my first post while I was typing this one. It would appear that lack of LOS combine with WVNY-DT's weak signal is the problem. I am glad to see that he can get the other stations.

BrianO

Do you use a rotor with the 4228? There's a pretty wide angle between Lyon Mtn (WCFE) and Mt. Mansfield (the others that you list) from your location.

One other thing. Have you checked both the balun and the drop cable? If you are making your own cables using compression connectors, it pays to make sure the connectors are a good match with the cable used. For example, I have found that Paladin's Universal RG6 connectors are a poor choice with Belden 7915A Duobond Plus RG6 cable but that Thomas & Betts SNS1P6 "Snap 'N Seal" connectors are an excellent match. OTOH, the Paladin connectors work very well with some other RG6 cable that I have tried them with.

videobruce

WCAX is suppose to be CBS??

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Intravino

I don't have a rotor, the 4228 is fixed on the tower. I get all of the channels except WVNY-DT with the 4228, I did get this summer sometimes WVNY-DT with the 4228 but very low 1 bar max.

I purchased crap at Addison, the compression connector are cheap and the coax is so so. I would have to change the one from the 10y13s to the CM 7777, I know it is weak but I don't know if it would help? I could purchased a good cable already made.

Brian, where is a good place to purchase excellent cable and connectors locally?

I do get with 10y13s some local channel like VHF 2 SRC and 6 CBC.

I could also have problems with SRC Mauricie CH 13 analog from Trois-Rivieres that is coming at the back of the 10y13s with an angle of 45 degrees.


Thanks for your time,


Intravino