tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Rick0725 · 05-02-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonsZX2SR

The setup I use is shown in the image. The bearing is stabilized with 3 guy wires that should be visible if you look closely. The antenna is mounted approximately 42 feet (12.8 m) above ground level.

The antenna is a CM 3018 with a modified UHF section with an Antennacraft preamplifier (10C212 ??) is mounted on the lower fixed pole.

The assembly has been stable with 60-70 mph wind gusts during storms.

replace the wire with 1" or 1 1/4" emt conduit. much sturdier. flatten both ends to fit.

mount to the roof and just under the thrust bearing. 2 pieces as in picture.

JonsZX2SR · 05-03-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonsZX2SR

This sounds like similar to a large antenna I removed and discarded. It was installed on my current house when I bought it in 1990. I am guessing your antenna dates from the mid-1970's to the early 1980's.

The alternating elements on the V-section are the VHF part of the antenna. A dipole near the front of the V- and the small elements on the front post are the UHF section.

In retrospect, I may have misunderstood what you were describing. The V-could have been the forward facing corner reflector for the UHF section, or a shallow V could have been an old style split VHF section

Regardless, if you switch to the CM4228 you'll have to experiment to see if you have sufficient off-axis reception. I wouldn't scrap the rotor immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick0725

replace the wire with 1" or 1 1/4" emt conduit. much sturdier. flatten both ends to fit.

mount to the roof and just under the thrust bearing. 2 pieces as in picture.

This is a good idea if you have close mounting points as you do on an adjacent sloping roof. The closest practical mounting points I have are 15-20' away and the guy wires, when properly tensioned, provide more than sufficient stiffness. 3 turnbuckles also allow me to adjust the vertical angle to set the center pole straight up.

bozoweb · 05-03-2007, 12:30 PM

My antenna is the CM 3018 and was installed about 5 years ago.

I do not do my own installations because I do not have a ladder to reach anywhere near where the antenna is and don't want to buy one, and fear of heights.

My SOLE reason for switching from the 3018 to the 4228 is aesthetics. Given the difficulty in finding a local installer, and not knowing if the 4228 will perform the same pointed at one heading which I never have to change, I think I will abandon my plan (and save money in the process).

JonsZX2SR · 05-03-2007, 03:27 PM

I am also using a CM3018 with an enhanced UHF section and an Antennacraft 10C202 mast mounted amplifier.

The CM3018 gets good reception off axis including VHF-Hi (10, 11, 12) channels.

Given the recent installation, my recommendation would be to stay with the CM3018. Besides aesthetics, the other advantage of the CM4228 is deep fringe UHF reception, but you need the rotor to get the distant channel on-axis.

The CM3018 might be the better choice for a fixed orientation with good local reception. Do you have a low noise 18-20 dB amplifier mounted on the mast or in an attic ??

Where are you located in West Hartford ?? My g/f is located two streets north of Farmington Ave. close to the intersection of Farmington and Main. We are looking to sell both houses and buy something in W. Htfd. I'm lobbying for a location on high ground. (Hueblien tower is well out of my price range... LOL)

(I'm currently near the top of a ridge line on the S. Windsor / Vernon town line.)

bozoweb · 05-03-2007, 05:39 PM

No amplifer at all. Intersection of SouthMain St. and Park/Sedgwick.

JonsZX2SR · 05-04-2007, 01:39 PM

I'll look for the antenna the next time I drive past (probably tonight.) Which corner are you ??

bozoweb · 05-04-2007, 03:39 PM

With Webster Hill Blvd. Same side of street

JonsZX2SR · 05-05-2007, 10:36 AM

I'll look today... It sounds like you are on S. Main past the church and drugstore. I noticed there was only one residence actually located at the S. Main/Park/Sedwick intersection between Park and Thompson. The other 3 corners have a church. strip mall and apartments.

A few months ago I was looking at a house for sale another block or so south of you. I decided to pass on that one.

One thing to consider is a small 6-10 dB line amplifier located close to the antenna. The input of the amplifier provides a more stable impedance to the antenna than a long run of coax, terminating in one or more tuners. The stability of the load is more important than the gain if you have sufficient signal strength.

The low-Z output of the amp then drives the rest of the distribution system.

JonsZX2SR · 05-05-2007, 02:49 PM

Is it the white house just south of the corner of Webster Hill and S. Main on the east side of the street with the antenna and rotor attached to the chimney ??

If so the antenna appears to be a CM-3679 rather than a CM-3018. Good large, fringe antenna. You probably get enough reflections off the VHF elements with strong local UHF signals to get good reception off-axis.

I wouldn't bother replacing it with a CM-4228. You might actually be disappointed with reception of off-axis signals. You have a good setup for the location.

Given the terrain is uphill in the southern directions it doesn't surprise me that off axis reception of 8.1 (10) and 59.1 (39) isn't good, but as you noted you get ABC (WGGB-DT, 40.1) and aren't that interested in 59.1.

The only concern with the setup is that rocking of the mast in the rotor is going to cause fretting corrosion over time resulting in degradation at this attachment point. (I had a similar problem with the setup that came with my house.) The mast bearing would be a worthwhile addition, but I wouldn't spend the effort unless you actually were going to replace antennas.

Anyway, good luck with the HDTV reception...

bozoweb · 05-08-2007, 03:44 PM

Yep. That's me. I will definitely take your advice and stick with my current antenna.

BooDaddy · 05-11-2007, 10:39 AM

Hi all. I am looking at getting an Antenna for HD and Analog. So far, I am looking at the following combinations:

1. Seperate UHF / VHF using ChannelMaster 4228 and VIP-306 or VIP-307

2. UHF/VHF combo ChannelMaster 3671

3. UHF/VHF combo Winegard HD7084P

I am in zipcode 37307 and would like to pickup Chattanooga, and Knoxville if possible. I will be using a rotator and ChannelMaster 7777 amp on any of the above 3 setups.

Which is the better combination to get the most signal? Where can I buy a VIP-306? I cant find any info on them at all.

Is there a better combo that you would use?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Rick0725 · 05-11-2007, 02:41 PM

Prefer the 91xg combined with the Wade vip 306. the 2 antennas will stack on a shorter mast spaced 3.5' apart and will offer less windloading. the 91 xg will perform as well as the cm4228 and will out perform the uhf on both combos listed above. the vip 306 looks big but is 30" shorter than both the hd8200p and cm3671.

If you prefer one antenna prefer the hd8200p over the cm3671 since I have installed both anf fell the hd8200p outperforms the cm3671. If you are interested in receiving the distant stations, it is always best purchasing the better performing antennas. The hd7084P may not be enough antenna for your needs so therefore would pass on the cm 3671 and hd7084p combos.

I called for a quote recently on a vip306 and will be purchasing one very soon. the antenna will ship ups direct from the factory. the vip 306 will be replacing a hd8200p I am currently using for vhf combined with a 91xg for uhf.

call my distributor at 585-546-8464 for the vip306.

lou-lou · 07-05-2007, 03:31 AM

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH TIGERBANGS!...THE CM/4228 IS A GREAT ANTENNA FOR LONG DISTANCE RECEPTION.....IM 60 MILES FROM ATLANTA......MY 4228 IS ONLY 25' ABOVE GROUND (i plan to go much higher)...WITH THE TITAN PRE-AMP, I GET 2/5/11/17/30/34/36/46/69/..HE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS!!!!!

)

pappylap · 07-05-2007, 04:25 PM

I own a db8 deep fringe uhf antenna and on 3 of my 4 hd stations it does a great job very stable, but one (abc) comes and goes like the neighborhood cats.....reception floats from 72 to 5. I was thinking of a channelmaster 4228 would it be any better in your opiniion or is there any way to link the 2 antennas to increase reception....?
hope you still check this link regularly....

thanks in advance,
Pappy.

tigerbangs · 07-15-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappylap

I own a db8 deep fringe uhf antenna and on 3 of my 4 hd stations it does a great job very stable, but one (abc) comes and goes like the neighborhood cats.....reception floats from 72 to 5. I was thinking of a channelmaster 4228 would it be any better in your opiniion or is there any way to link the 2 antennas to increase reception....?
hope you still check this link regularly....

thanks in advance,
Pappy.

Sorry it took me so long to reply! I need a little more information about your current setup and location in order to make any real and meaningful suggestions. Tell me where you live (zip code) and the call letters of the stations that you are looking for, and I can make a much more educated silly, wild-ass guess...LOL

05-03-2007, 03:27 PM	#349
JonsZX2SR How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 28	I am also using a CM3018 with an enhanced UHF section and an Antennacraft 10C202 mast mounted amplifier. The CM3018 gets good reception off axis including VHF-Hi (10, 11, 12) channels. Given the recent installation, my recommendation would be to stay with the CM3018. Besides aesthetics, the other advantage of the CM4228 is deep fringe UHF reception, but you need the rotor to get the distant channel on-axis. The CM3018 might be the better choice for a fixed orientation with good local reception. Do you have a low noise 18-20 dB amplifier mounted on the mast or in an attic ?? Where are you located in West Hartford ?? My g/f is located two streets north of Farmington Ave. close to the intersection of Farmington and Main. We are looking to sell both houses and buy something in W. Htfd. I'm lobbying for a location on high ground. (Hueblien tower is well out of my price range... LOL) (I'm currently near the top of a ridge line on the S. Windsor / Vernon town line.) __________________ Digital TV or bust...

05-04-2007, 01:39 PM	#351
JonsZX2SR How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 28	I'll look for the antenna the next time I drive past (probably tonight.) Which corner are you ?? __________________ Digital TV or bust...

05-05-2007, 10:36 AM	#353
JonsZX2SR How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 28	I'll look today... It sounds like you are on S. Main past the church and drugstore. I noticed there was only one residence actually located at the S. Main/Park/Sedwick intersection between Park and Thompson. The other 3 corners have a church. strip mall and apartments. A few months ago I was looking at a house for sale another block or so south of you. I decided to pass on that one. One thing to consider is a small 6-10 dB line amplifier located close to the antenna. The input of the amplifier provides a more stable impedance to the antenna than a long run of coax, terminating in one or more tuners. The stability of the load is more important than the gain if you have sufficient signal strength. The low-Z output of the amp then drives the rest of the distribution system. __________________ Digital TV or bust...

05-05-2007, 02:49 PM	#354
JonsZX2SR How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 28	Is it the white house just south of the corner of Webster Hill and S. Main on the east side of the street with the antenna and rotor attached to the chimney ?? If so the antenna appears to be a CM-3679 rather than a CM-3018. Good large, fringe antenna. You probably get enough reflections off the VHF elements with strong local UHF signals to get good reception off-axis. I wouldn't bother replacing it with a CM-4228. You might actually be disappointed with reception of off-axis signals. You have a good setup for the location. Given the terrain is uphill in the southern directions it doesn't surprise me that off axis reception of 8.1 (10) and 59.1 (39) isn't good, but as you noted you get ABC (WGGB-DT, 40.1) and aren't that interested in 59.1. The only concern with the setup is that rocking of the mast in the rotor is going to cause fretting corrosion over time resulting in degradation at this attachment point. (I had a similar problem with the setup that came with my house.) The mast bearing would be a worthwhile addition, but I wouldn't spend the effort unless you actually were going to replace antennas. Anyway, good luck with the HDTV reception... __________________ Digital TV or bust...

05-11-2007, 02:41 PM	#357
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	Prefer the 91xg combined with the Wade vip 306. the 2 antennas will stack on a shorter mast spaced 3.5' apart and will offer less windloading. the 91 xg will perform as well as the cm4228 and will out perform the uhf on both combos listed above. the vip 306 looks big but is 30" shorter than both the hd8200p and cm3671. If you prefer one antenna prefer the hd8200p over the cm3671 since I have installed both anf fell the hd8200p outperforms the cm3671. If you are interested in receiving the distant stations, it is always best purchasing the better performing antennas. The hd7084P may not be enough antenna for your needs so therefore would pass on the cm 3671 and hd7084p combos. I called for a quote recently on a vip306 and will be purchasing one very soon. the antenna will ship ups direct from the factory. the vip 306 will be replacing a hd8200p I am currently using for vhf combined with a 91xg for uhf. call my distributor at 585-546-8464 for the vip306. Last edited by Rick0725; 05-11-2007 at 02:51 PM.

05-03-2007, 12:30 PM	#348
bozoweb My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6	My antenna is the CM 3018 and was installed about 5 years ago. I do not do my own installations because I do not have a ladder to reach anywhere near where the antenna is and don't want to buy one, and fear of heights. My SOLE reason for switching from the 3018 to the 4228 is aesthetics. Given the difficulty in finding a local installer, and not knowing if the 4228 will perform the same pointed at one heading which I never have to change, I think I will abandon my plan (and save money in the process).

05-03-2007, 05:39 PM	#350
bozoweb My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6	No amplifer at all. Intersection of SouthMain St. and Park/Sedgwick.

05-04-2007, 03:39 PM	#352
bozoweb My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6	With Webster Hill Blvd. Same side of street

05-08-2007, 03:44 PM	#355
bozoweb My plasma is High Def. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 6	Yep. That's me. I will definitely take your advice and stick with my current antenna.

05-11-2007, 10:39 AM	#356
BooDaddy What is HD? Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1	Hi all. I am looking at getting an Antenna for HD and Analog. So far, I am looking at the following combinations: 1. Seperate UHF / VHF using ChannelMaster 4228 and VIP-306 or VIP-307 2. UHF/VHF combo ChannelMaster 3671 3. UHF/VHF combo Winegard HD7084P I am in zipcode 37307 and would like to pickup Chattanooga, and Knoxville if possible. I will be using a rotator and ChannelMaster 7777 amp on any of the above 3 setups. Which is the better combination to get the most signal? Where can I buy a VIP-306? I cant find any info on them at all. Is there a better combo that you would use? Thanks for any and all replies.

07-05-2007, 03:31 AM	#358
lou-lou What is HD? Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	I HAVE TO AGREE WITH TIGERBANGS!...THE CM/4228 IS A GREAT ANTENNA FOR LONG DISTANCE RECEPTION.....IM 60 MILES FROM ATLANTA......MY 4228 IS ONLY 25' ABOVE GROUND (i plan to go much higher)...WITH THE TITAN PRE-AMP, I GET 2/5/11/17/30/34/36/46/69/..HE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS!!!!! )

07-05-2007, 04:25 PM	#359
pappylap Poopmaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Way over Yonder Age: 4 Posts: 2,866	Dear Tigerbangs I own a db8 deep fringe uhf antenna and on 3 of my 4 hd stations it does a great job very stable, but one (abc) comes and goes like the neighborhood cats.....reception floats from 72 to 5. I was thinking of a channelmaster 4228 would it be any better in your opiniion or is there any way to link the 2 antennas to increase reception....? hope you still check this link regularly.... thanks in advance, Pappy. __________________ Bar Wench...Where's my Waffle! You can checkout anytime you like but you can never leave.." 50"Pioneer KURO 111FD Pro Elite Pioneer BD320 Blu-ray player Pioneer VSX-919AH A/V Receiver 32" & 37" Olevia LCDs Sony DHG HDD 500 gig DVR Samsung DTBH260 Digital Tuner One Roll of Charmin Quilted Plus in each Bathroom...

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