tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

Dolphan · 03-19-2007, 05:19 PM

Here is my setup. Dish 1000+ and XG91 with HDP 269 Preamp on 1 1/4 inch rigid conduit.

DeerHunter · 03-19-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolphan

Here is my setup. Dish 1000+ and XG91 with HDP 269 Preamp on 1 1/4 inch rigid conduit.

Nice!

That first cable run from the antenna to the pre-amp...RG-6???

I got my 91XG on Thursday, but haven't had a chance to tinker with it yet (put it up). I've put it together though. Boy was that fun!

Dolphan · 03-19-2007, 07:40 PM

[quote=DeerHunter]Nice!

That first cable run from the antenna to the pre-amp...RG-6???

Yes.

Rick0725 · 03-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

I got my 91XG on Thursday, but haven't had a chance to tinker with it yet (put it up). I've put it together though. Boy was that fun!

Build quality = Piece by piece.

rg11 cable. bought 100' today. overkill...who cares!
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/B...den+1523AC.htm

rg11 compression fittings
http://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?Fam...D=38&Cat3ID=48

STUF dielectric paste
http://www.dbs-online.com/items.asp?FamilyID=503

winegard-cs7750 vhf/uhf combiner .3 db insertion loss

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard...50-p-5588.html

and my next experiment - low noise amp 1db or less loss, 20 db adjustable gain. cant really be mast mounted but great for an attic or a spot inside.

http://www.kitztech.com

and found this in my travels today.DVB-T UHF TV Super Ultra Low Noise Amplifier. German

http://cgi.ebay.com/DVB-T-UHF-TV-Sup...QQcmdZViewItem

nice setup btw.

curious - how does the rigid conduit compare to heavy duty mast..wall thickness, rigidity, etc.?

bwam · 03-19-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick0725

and found this in my travels today.DVB-T UHF TV Super Ultra Low Noise Amplifier. German

http://cgi.ebay.com/DVB-T-UHF-TV-Sup...QQcmdZViewItem

Rick,

I'm intrigued by this Verstaerker amp. May buy one just to experiment with it. Has the same low noise figure as the ResearchComms one.

Rick0725 · 03-19-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwam

Rick,

I'm intrigued by this Verstaerker amp. May buy one just to experiment with it. Has the same low noise figure as the ResearchComms one.

I was going to try one but the gain was too high for my application.

maybe I will email them to see if they have anything with low noise that would suit me better.

I should receive all the gadgets I ordered by thursday. Also purchased a couple band pass filters and an fm trap tuned to 100.9 mhz. I have an fm tower less than a mile away that causes issues.

Dolphan · 03-20-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick0725

Build quality = Piece by piece.

rg11 cable. bought 100' today. overkill...who cares!
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/B...den+1523AC.htm

rg11 compression fittings
http://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?Fam...D=38&Cat3ID=48

STUF dielectric paste
http://www.dbs-online.com/items.asp?FamilyID=503

winegard-cs7750 vhf/uhf combiner .3 db insertion loss

http://www.summitsource.com/winegard...50-p-5588.html

and my next experiment - low noise amp 1db or less loss, 20 db adjustable gain. cant really be mast mounted but great for an attic or a spot inside.

http://www.kitztech.com

and found this in my travels today.DVB-T UHF TV Super Ultra Low Noise Amplifier. German

http://cgi.ebay.com/DVB-T-UHF-TV-Sup...QQcmdZViewItem

nice setup btw.

curious - how does the rigid conduit compare to heavy duty mast..wall thickness, rigidity, etc.?

It is a lot thicker and a lot more rigid than my previous setup which used four 5 foot pieces of antenna mast. Whether they were heavy duty I don't know I got them from Lowes. My mistake before was not using 10 foot pieces so I probably over did it with the rigid conduit. I have about a 65 foot run from the antenna to the preamp power supply do you think RG 11 would improve my signal?

Rick0725 · 03-20-2007, 04:57 PM

RG-11?

rg11 loss per 100' at 1000 mhz=4.23 db for the rg11 mentioned above.

rg 6 loss per 100' at 1000 mhz =6.00db on average for the good stuff

4.23x.65=2.75
6x.65=3.9

3.9-2.75= 1.15db. you will gain about 1 db.

like I said above...rg11...overkill...who cares.

if you want it use it.

DeerHunter · 03-21-2007, 07:55 AM

Quick question about ERP/HAAT.

HAAT = Height Above Average Terrain
ERP = Effective Radiated Power

How come a station such as WCAX-CBS Burlington has an ERP of 628kW, yet WFFF-FOX only has an ERP of 47kW???

I mean, both are in the UHF frequency, but that seems to be quite a bit of difference in ERP. Wouldn't WFFF be at a major disadvantage as far as coverage area having such a low ERP?

TIA.

Jimmy.

Tower Guy · 03-21-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeerHunter

Quick question about ERP/HAAT.

HAAT = Height Above Average Terrain
ERP = Effective Radiated Power

How come a station such as WCAX-CBS Burlington has an ERP of 628kW, yet WFFF-FOX only has an ERP of 47kW???

I mean, both are in the UHF frequency, but that seems to be quite a bit of difference in ERP. Wouldn't WFFF be at a major disadvantage as far as coverage area having such a low ERP?

Jimmy.

WFFF is on channel 13. Channel 13 is VHF. You don't need as much power to go far on VHF because the path loss is less. VHF does better in hilly areas than UHF.

BrianO · 03-21-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

WFFF is on channel 13. Channel 13 is VHF. You don't need as much power to go far on VHF because the path loss is less. VHF does better in hilly areas than UHF.

Sorry, but that is incorrect.

WFFF-DT is on channel 43 and WCAX-DT is on channel 53. It is WVNY (ABC) that is on channel 13. (WVNY was originally assigned channel 16 but they asked for a re-assignment to a VHF channel and got 13.)

Also, WFFF-DT's antenna is temporarily located near the bottom (barely 10 ft above the ground) on the WCAX-DT tower. Winter came early to Mount Mansfield and a huge block of ice fell off one of the towers causing severe damage to WFFF's transmission line a few days before they were going to go on the air in October. The only way for them to get on the air before the late spring was to jury rig the temporary set up. The accident did not affect WFFF's analogue service because their analogue transmitter is located on Terry Mountain near Peru, NY.

As for WVNY-DT on channel 13, it is almost impossible to receive in the Montreal area. By way of contrast, WVNY's analogue signal on channel 22 is the easiest of the Mount Mansfield stations to pick up in the Montreal area. Unfortunately for them they elected not to go back to 22 after the analogue shutdown and will stay on 13. WCAX-DT will move from 53 to 22 as soon as WVNY shuts down their analogue transmiiter; it is the only Mount Mansfield station that will change its digital channel number in 2009.

The other digital transmitters on Mount Mansfield are those of WPTZ-DT on channel 14 and WETK-DT on channel 32. (WPTZ's analogue transmitter is located on Terry Mountain, NY).

DeerHunter · 03-22-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

WFFF is on channel 13. Channel 13 is VHF. You don't need as much power to go far on VHF because the path loss is less. VHF does better in hilly areas than UHF.

Are you talking analog signals? Cause I'm talking the digital signals. You might wanna check again.

There is only 1 station in the VHF band (WVNY-DT ABC) they're at 10kW.

All the rest are in the UHF realm. WFFF-DT FOX is broadcast channel 43-UHF, remapped to 44. Yet the ERP is only 47kW.

Click the link

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/defaul...=Show+Stations

DeerHunter · 03-22-2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

Sorry, but that is incorrect.

WFFF-DT is on channel 43 and WCAX-DT is on channel 53. It is WVNY (ABC) that is on channel 13. (WVNY was originally assigned channel 16 but they asked for a re-assignment to a VHF channel and got 13.)

Also, WFFF-DT's antenna is temporarily located near the bottom (barely 10 ft above the ground) on the WCAX-DT tower. Winter came early to Mount Mansfield and a huge block of ice fell off one of the towers causing severe damage to WFFF's transmission line a few days before they were going to go on the air in October. The only way for them to get on the air before the late spring was to jury rig the temporary set up. The accident did not affect WFFF's analogue service because their analogue transmitter is located on Terry Mountain near Peru, NY.

As for WVNY-DT on channel 13, it is almost impossible to receive in the Montreal area. By way of contrast, WVNY's analogue signal on channel 22 is the easiest of the Mount Mansfield stations to pick up in the Montreal area. Unfortunately for them they elected not to go back to 22 after the analogue shutdown and will stay on 13. WCAX-DT will move from 53 to 22 as soon as WVNY shuts down their analogue transmiiter; it is the only Mount Mansfield station that will change its digital channel number in 2009.

The other digital transmitters on Mount Mansfield are those of WPTZ-DT on channel 14 and WETK-DT on channel 32. (WPTZ's analogue transmitter is located on Terry Mountain, NY).

Good post with correct info! Now back to my origional question, even though WFFF-DT FOX had their antenna mishap why is their ERP so low as compared to the UHF signals? When the transition comes, will they be increasing their ERP? It seem to me that with an ERP of just 47kW, it doesn't seem very likely anyone more than several miles from the tower will be able get a signal.

BrianO · 03-22-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeerHunter

Good post with correct info! Now back to my origional question, even though WFFF-DT FOX had their antenna mishap why is their ERP so low as compared to the UHF signals? When the transition comes, will they be increasing their ERP? It seem to me that with an ERP of just 47kW, it doesn't seem very likely anyone more than several miles from the tower will be able get a signal.

I live 80.6 miles from the towers and have no problem receiving WFFF-DT. The only Mount Mansfield station, analogue or digital, that I cannot get is WVNY-DT on channel 13 because its signal is too weak. As for the ERP, I have no idea why the difference is so great.

DeerHunter · 03-22-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

I live 80.6 miles from the towers and have no problem receiving WFFF-DT. The only Mount Mansfield station, analogue or digital, that I cannot get is WVNY-DT on channel 13 because its signal is too weak. As for the ERP, I have no idea why the difference is so great.

Hi Brian,

That's a pretty good bit of distance! But, the terrain from you to the Mt. Mansfield towers are a heck of a lot more favorable than they are from me to the towers! If you go back a few pages (21-22)you can see what I'm up against.

What type of antenna setup are you using? Pre-amp? Antenna height? All the usual suspect in your setup?

Thanks.

03-21-2007, 07:55 AM	#249
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Tiger or Rick.... Quick question about ERP/HAAT. HAAT = Height Above Average Terrain ERP = Effective Radiated Power How come a station such as WCAX-CBS Burlington has an ERP of 628kW, yet WFFF-FOX only has an ERP of 47kW??? I mean, both are in the UHF frequency, but that seems to be quite a bit of difference in ERP. Wouldn't WFFF be at a major disadvantage as far as coverage area having such a low ERP? TIA. Jimmy. __________________ In Need Of HDTV!!!!

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03-19-2007, 07:40 PM	#243
Dolphan High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: West of the Eastern Continental Divide Posts: 33	[quote=DeerHunter]Nice! That first cable run from the antenna to the pre-amp...RG-6??? Yes.

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Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,558	RG-11? rg11 loss per 100' at 1000 mhz=4.23 db for the rg11 mentioned above. rg 6 loss per 100' at 1000 mhz =6.00db on average for the good stuff 4.23x.65=2.75 6x.65=3.9 3.9-2.75= 1.15db. you will gain about 1 db. like I said above...rg11...overkill...who cares. if you want it use it.