tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

DeerHunter · 02-27-2007, 12:52 PM

Here's another shot.

resized.jpg

tigerbangs · 02-27-2007, 12:53 PM

If you want want WVNY-DT, you are going to have to get some sort of a VHF antenna, since it operates on channel 13. I might suggest that your best bet is probably to get a 10 element channel 13 yagi from Wade-Delhi, since they are pretty small ( only about 6'1/2 feet long ) and quite powerful (10 db ) combined with the Titan 7777, I suspect that you may have some success picking up WVNY-DT
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1158766.html (WVNY-DT's primary coverage map)
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1153379.html (WCAX-DT's primary coverage map)

DeerHunter · 02-27-2007, 01:02 PM

This is from me to Albany towers.

Albany resized.jpg

Google Earth, man you gotta love it!

DeerHunter · 02-27-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

If you want want WVNY-DT, you are going to have to get some sort of a VHF antenna, since it operates on channel 13. I might suggest that your best bet is probably to get a 10 element channel 13 yagi from Wade-Delhi, since they are pretty small ( only about 6'1/2 feet long ) and quite powerful (10 db ) combined with the Titan 7777, I suspect that you may have some success picking up WVNY-DT
http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1158766.html (WVNY-DT's primary coverage map)
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1153379.html (WCAX-DT's primary coverage map)

Yeah, I was thinking of that as well knowing that VHF tends to be a little easier to pick up vs. UHF.

So, from the pics, what do you think my chance are realistically? I guess this is where knife edge refraction could be helpful. Hopefully.

Also, I don't know if this is helpful or not. But, a few years back when we bought the house the origional owner had a fairly large antenna on the roof. It's has since been taken down, but anyway, it was pretty big and no pre-amp, using twin-lead downlead. But with that antenna, I used to get WCAX analog. A little snowy, but otherwise very watchable. Can that be used as an indicator of what my chances are?

I do know that there have been numerous arguments over the validity of the Longley-Rice prediction modeling and coverage maps, so I'm not 100% convinced on them.

Come on refraction!!!! If I could get at least some good night time locks, and watch some evening primetime, I'll be happy as a clam!

Rick0725 · 02-27-2007, 01:27 PM

it is a tough call. albany does not look good.

the terrain in my neck of the woods is similar. look at google earth in a line between syracuse and binghamton, new york, and binghamton to scranton and elmira.

last spring for example...from my parents home on a hill... was debating if a rotor would be feasible since they are only about 50 miles from scranton and elmira and a little over 60 miles to syracuse.

with a cm4228 and ap8700 could not receive a thing in those directions.

even tried to help a user at 1400' elevation. we received some analog from syracuse 60 miles away...even ch 9 analog with a cm4228 but no digital.

in these cases you will not know till you try.

DeerHunter · 02-27-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick0725

....albany does not look good.

That's what WRGB's engineer told me.

tigerbangs · 02-27-2007, 01:45 PM

If I had to make a suggestion about which city to look to for reception, I would suggest Burlington-Plattsburg: similar distances, but more than 3 times the transmitting height of the Albany transmitters

DeerHunter · 02-27-2007, 01:57 PM

Well, I can't thank you guys enough for your insight. If and when I do make an attempt, it'll definitely be for the Mansfield towers! once again thanks to you Tiger, and you too Rick.

Rick0725 · 02-27-2007, 02:03 PM

tiger these reception issues are similar with a common denominator.

hills/mountains whatever you want to call them...low elevation high elevation and the line in between.

if there is a hill in the way.... if it is in denver, san francisco, seatle, maine, wilkes barre, west virginia, pittsburg, syracuse, or binghamton...the result is going to be the same.

it is safe to assume that hills block all signal.

tigerbangs · 02-27-2007, 02:36 PM

Rick, I hear you...having lived about 20 miles from DeerHunter lives, I also know that the stations in VT were meant to compensate, to some degree, for the rugged terrain of Vermont. It's hard to predict accurately, of course, but if I had to bet on which stations he would pick up, I would put my money on Burlington.

Rick0725 · 02-27-2007, 02:46 PM

ahh...my wife has relatives in burlington. go to a family reunion there every july.

Dolphan · 03-03-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

Yup, if you are getting what you are looking for now with an indoor antenna, I'm sure you are going to seee more stations with the 4228. I might also suggest that you consider an AntennasDirect XG-43 as well, since it is a lot easier to mount, and will do just as good a job on channel 59 as will the 4228. Since you have stations available to you from multiple cities, I strongly suggest a rotator, and a preamplifier will be worthwhile for you, too!

I intalled the 4228 and HDP 269 combo today. The wind was blowing about 10 miles per hour when I finished and it pulled in every station I was looking for including 4.1(Ch 59) which I was unable to get with the VU 75. Now the wind is blowing about 20-25 MPH and everything is dropping out. I do have strong multipath and many trees here. Should I switch over to the XG 43 or XG 91? I'm thinking the tilt might help also.

tigerbangs · 03-03-2007, 08:09 PM

I would try socking the antenna down a little more tightly first before suggest giving up the 4228: you may need guy wires to stabilize the antenna. You can't do much about the movement of the trees, but you can affect the movment of the antenna.

Dolphan · 03-04-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerbangs

I would try socking the antenna down a little more tightly first before suggest giving up the 4228: you may need guy wires to stabilize the antenna. You can't do much about the movement of the trees, but you can affect the movment of the antenna.

I unhooked the anteena feed from a Dish Vip 211 and went direct to a Sony 50 inch SXRD. Bam! everything comes in and I was able to really tweak the position with the built in signal meter. I guess this is what Rick0725 was talking about when he said 5th and 6th gen receivers are superior.

One note the Sony would not "see" any signal for auto progamming but if you knew the digital channel it tunes right in then auto maps it in memory. I guess the amp causes that because it worked great before the amp.

Thanks Tigerbangs and Rick0725 you guys really help a lot of folks ,myself included, with your input!

tigerbangs · 03-04-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm glad it worked for you...You are right: there is a BIG difference in the new fifth-generation tuners. I will bet you good money that you'll see little or no pixellazition now that you are connected directly to the TV ATSC tuner. Congrats!

02-27-2007, 12:52 PM	#211
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Here's another shot. resized.jpg __________________ In Need Of HDTV!!!!

02-27-2007, 12:53 PM	#212
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,102	If you want want WVNY-DT, you are going to have to get some sort of a VHF antenna, since it operates on channel 13. I might suggest that your best bet is probably to get a 10 element channel 13 yagi from Wade-Delhi, since they are pretty small ( only about 6'1/2 feet long ) and quite powerful (10 db ) combined with the Titan 7777, I suspect that you may have some success picking up WVNY-DT http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/cutchannel.pdf http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1158766.html (WVNY-DT's primary coverage map) http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1153379.html (WCAX-DT's primary coverage map) __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women! Last edited by tigerbangs; 02-27-2007 at 12:58 PM.

02-27-2007, 01:02 PM	#213
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Another one This is from me to Albany towers. Albany resized.jpg Google Earth, man you gotta love it! __________________ In Need Of HDTV!!!! Last edited by DeerHunter; 02-27-2007 at 01:05 PM.

02-27-2007, 01:45 PM	#217
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,102	If I had to make a suggestion about which city to look to for reception, I would suggest Burlington-Plattsburg: similar distances, but more than 3 times the transmitting height of the Albany transmitters __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-27-2007, 01:57 PM	#218
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Well, I can't thank you guys enough for your insight. If and when I do make an attempt, it'll definitely be for the Mansfield towers! once again thanks to you Tiger, and you too Rick. __________________ In Need Of HDTV!!!!

02-27-2007, 01:27 PM	#215
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,557	it is a tough call. albany does not look good. the terrain in my neck of the woods is similar. look at google earth in a line between syracuse and binghamton, new york, and binghamton to scranton and elmira. last spring for example...from my parents home on a hill... was debating if a rotor would be feasible since they are only about 50 miles from scranton and elmira and a little over 60 miles to syracuse. with a cm4228 and ap8700 could not receive a thing in those directions. even tried to help a user at 1400' elevation. we received some analog from syracuse 60 miles away...even ch 9 analog with a cm4228 but no digital. in these cases you will not know till you try.

02-27-2007, 02:03 PM	#219
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,557	tiger these reception issues are similar with a common denominator. hills/mountains whatever you want to call them...low elevation high elevation and the line in between. if there is a hill in the way.... if it is in denver, san francisco, seatle, maine, wilkes barre, west virginia, pittsburg, syracuse, or binghamton...the result is going to be the same. it is safe to assume that hills block all signal.

02-27-2007, 02:36 PM	#220
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,102	Rick, I hear you...having lived about 20 miles from DeerHunter lives, I also know that the stations in VT were meant to compensate, to some degree, for the rugged terrain of Vermont. It's hard to predict accurately, of course, but if I had to bet on which stations he would pick up, I would put my money on Burlington. __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-27-2007, 02:46 PM	#221
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,557	ahh...my wife has relatives in burlington. go to a family reunion there every july.

03-03-2007, 08:09 PM	#223
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,102	I would try socking the antenna down a little more tightly first before suggest giving up the 4228: you may need guy wires to stabilize the antenna. You can't do much about the movement of the trees, but you can affect the movment of the antenna. __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

03-04-2007, 02:05 PM	#225
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,102	I'm glad it worked for you...You are right: there is a BIG difference in the new fifth-generation tuners. I will bet you good money that you'll see little or no pixellazition now that you are connected directly to the TV ATSC tuner. Congrats! __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!