tigerbangs prescription for deep fringe reception

jfowlerpa · 02-03-2007, 06:29 PM

Thanks to all on this forum. I just completed install of a Channelmaster 4228 on my roof and the HDTV I get is fantastic. I live just south of Bethlehem, PA. Roxborough is 37.5 miles for Philly stations. My goal was Superbowl in true high def. Its a reality.

I followed many of the recommendations on this forum. I'm ordering a rotor tonight so I can get LV, Scranton and maybe NYC channels.

Attached is a picture of my new toy. Getting it up there was an adventure. The wall mount brackets didn't seem solid enough, so I doubled them up. I don't know why I waited so long.

Midwest Dxer · 02-03-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfowlerpa

Thanks to all on this forum. I just completed install of a Channelmaster 4228 on my roof and the HDTV I get is fantastic. I live just south of Bethlehem, PA. Roxborough is 37.5 miles for Philly stations. My goal was Superbowl in true high def. Its a reality.

I followed many of the recommendations on this forum. I'm ordering a rotor tonight so I can get LV, Scranton and maybe NYC channels.

Attached is a picture of my new toy. Getting it up there was an adventure. The wall mount brackets didn't seem solid enough, so I doubled them up. I don't know why I waited so long.

Nice looking,sturdy install.You might want to add a V/U preamp also.The standoffs for the coax is not necessary.Total mast height above the highest bracket can be around 6-7ft.Go for it!

tigerbangs · 02-03-2007, 11:44 PM

Jfowlerpa: you did a very nice job. MidwestDXer is right, though: a good low-noise peamp like a Channel master Titan 7777 or a Winegard AP-7285 will be a very worthwhile addition to your antenna system. Good work!

BrianO · 02-03-2007, 11:47 PM

You need to ground that antenna and also run the coax through a ground block.

tigerbangs · 02-03-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolphan

Thanks Tigerbang. I am only interested in the digital channels which go from 25 to 59. Would the choice then move to CM 4228? I can get everything but channel 4(59) with an indoor Phillips Mant 510.

Yup, if you are getting what you are looking for now with an indoor antenna, I'm sure you are going to seee more stations with the 4228. I might also suggest that you consider an AntennasDirect XG-43 as well, since it is a lot easier to mount, and will do just as good a job on channel 59 as will the 4228. Since you have stations available to you from multiple cities, I strongly suggest a rotator, and a preamplifier will be worthwhile for you, too!

Dolphan · 02-04-2007, 08:51 AM

Thanks a lot for the help! Great Forum as well.

gvgsteve · 02-04-2007, 04:52 PM

First off, thank you for all your responses and patience with those of us still learning the off-air game.

The CM4228 you recommend is also a bowtie antenna, which takes up much less space. I am planning on installing in an attic with limited space, so this will fit perfectly. I understand that the attic will take its toll, but with my space considerations, should this be fine?

Also, any tips of pitfalls in trying to install/mount this is tight quarters?

Thanks again!

**rbinck** · 02-04-2007, 05:00 PM

I don't know anyone here that can assure you of success with an attic install. You are in the woods by yourself on that one. Try it. Some work, some don't.

tigerbangs · 02-04-2007, 06:08 PM

If you are attempting an attic installation, then a yagi-type antenna has a greater chance of success than the 4228. The 4228 has side lobe pick-up that makes it a poor choice for multipath-prone environments like an attic. You are well-advised to consider a roof-top or tower mount, but if you have no other choice but to mount in the attic, then consider an AntennasDirect XG-43 or an XG-91 with a preamplifier instead of a 4228.

jfowlerpa · 02-05-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

You need to ground that antenna and also run the coax through a ground block.

BrianO: Thanks, you are correct that I need to finish the install. I was so excited and wanted to share. To watch the Superbowl last night we ran the coax through a window. Mid-4th quarter the cable goes out on all TV's except the plasma! Everyone piled into the living room and watched in high def via the antenna. I think 5-10 more people in the Lehigh Valley will be erecting UHF antennas soon.

I need to run more permanent coax through the garage vent and into the house. I'll probably do that when I install the rotor. Grounding the antenna and the coax will be part of that. I bought a 4ft ground rod, but then read somewhere that it is better to ground to the house ground instead.

DeerHunter · 02-07-2007, 10:46 PM

Ran into this site by accident. Tigerbang

, I hope you can help me. I've talked to numerous people on numerous forums, and everyone's got a different opinion. I've heard so many different setup options my head is spinning.

Here's my situation...

I'm at 05773 Wallingford, VT. I'd like to get stations in (either not both) 12201 Albany, NY or 05401 Burlington, VT.

Here's the kicker... I'm roughly 78 miles from the towers in Albany and 74 miles from the towers in Burlington. My clearest shot would Albany.

What would be best for my setup? I'd like to get as many networks as possible. Albany would be at 237 deg. from my locale, and Burlington would be at 20 deg.

I've talked to the guys at Winegard as well as AntennasDirect, station engineers, you name it. Everyones got a different solution.

Option#1

All-in-one, like a CM 3671 or Wingard HD8200P with CM 7777 pre-amp

Option #2

91XG, along with a V21 or something better???, a combiner, and a pre-amp???

Option #3

Your recommendation goes here!

I wish I knew how to attach photo's here. I could show you 8 photos of the different TIGER coverage maps for each of the stations within their markets.

I'm so sick of not being able to get the HD network feeds it's making me sick. I can't get them through dish or any other way at this point in time. So, I'm thinking OTA may be my only prayer!!!

Please help.

Rick0725 · 02-08-2007, 07:08 AM

From the directv website

"Did you know that some DIRECTV customers may be eligible to receive non-local feeds of major broadcast networks? Eligibility is governed by federal law, and is determined by several factors including:

You don't live near a metropolitan area
You can't get any TV reception whatsoever
You live more than 70 miles from TV station broadcast towers

Did you try getting the locals from NYC and Los angeles.

http://directvdnseligibility.decisio...dressform.aspx

Looks like you qualify...May be a good idea to pursue

Now in regards to antennas...digital reception at 75 miles can be a challenge for many families even under favorable conditions. Antenna engineers can design great antennas that can perform beyond your wildest expectations.

But there is one thing that can kill your chances of reception. Your local geography. And that is what you will be faced with there.

The cm3671 and HD8200p are great combo antennas. but a little deficient on the UHF side and workable on the VHF side . Therefore prefer separates for reception challenges.

The albany market has digital on high band vhf.

therefore suggest a cm4228 or 91xg uhf combined with a winegard ya1713 or antennacraft y10 7-13 yagi through a cm7777 preamp. With maybe rg11 to cut down on losses. Then if that does not work you double up with 2 of each mounted side by side. all this mounted as high as possible.

Then you cross your fingers and hope you receive someting.

as so

http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html

Hills block digital signal. I have been involved with installs as close as 5 miles from towers using the best antennas and can only get 1 channel if I am lucky...because there was a big ass hill in the way.

Rick0725 · 02-08-2007, 08:38 AM

fyi

Eligibilty review for the following for Directv:
WALLINGFORD, VT 05773

Digital (HD) Distant Network Service...national hd service from NYC.
Network Affiliate Status
ABC Eligible
CBS WCAX-DT Grade B (moderate signal) ...file a waiver
FOX Eligible
NBC Eligible

suggest to go for it! call customer retention for the waiver.

DeerHunter · 02-08-2007, 09:12 AM

Thanks guys, but I just contacted DirectTv, and they said....

because they provide a local package for my area, I would NOT be allowed to get any DNS??? WTF!!!

I'm so friggin' mad it's not even funny. I've talked to D* directly they so no DNS. The link posted above, for the DNS eligibilty says I can get 3. I don't know who to talk to anymore, and can't seem to get a straight answer.

I'd be willing dump E*, give them my credit card #, sign up with D*....IF they could with 100% certainty tell me I COULD get the DNS HD feeds.

HELP. I'm livid.

tigerbangs · 02-08-2007, 09:17 AM

I tend to agree with Rick on this one: you are going to have to spend a considerable sum for an antenna system and get little or no potential benefit for it. If you are a *D* subscriber now, then consider Rick's option.

If you are NOT a *D* subscriber, you might consider another route: drive to Canada and pick up a Bell ExpressVu package. It's legitimacy is questionable in the US, but I know a LOT of Vermonters who have done so. It's cheaper than *D*, and it has the Boston digital stations, rather than the NYC stations, which may appeal to cranky old Yankees...LOL : Their TSN-HD Sports channel carries the Red Sox in HD! Bell really doesn't care who you are: give them a credit card for payment, and they are happy as clams at high tide.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpTv_Dth_Landing.page

Oh, BTW, theit porn channels are a LOT better than the US channels...LOL

02-03-2007, 11:44 PM	#168
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,101	Jfowlerpa: you did a very nice job. MidwestDXer is right, though: a good low-noise peamp like a Channel master Titan 7777 or a Winegard AP-7285 will be a very worthwhile addition to your antenna system. Good work! __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-03-2007, 11:47 PM	#169
BrianO Sony KD34XS955 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pointe-Claire QC Posts: 2,323	You're not finished. You need to ground that antenna and also run the coax through a ground block.

02-04-2007, 05:00 PM	#173
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 12,300	I don't know anyone here that can assure you of success with an attic install. You are in the woods by yourself on that one. Try it. Some work, some don't. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-04-2007, 06:08 PM	#174
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,101	If you are attempting an attic installation, then a yagi-type antenna has a greater chance of success than the 4228. The 4228 has side lobe pick-up that makes it a poor choice for multipath-prone environments like an attic. You are well-advised to consider a roof-top or tower mount, but if you have no other choice but to mount in the attic, then consider an AntennasDirect XG-43 or an XG-91 with a preamplifier instead of a 4228. __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women!

02-07-2007, 10:46 PM	#176
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Finally... Ran into this site by accident. Tigerbang , I hope you can help me. I've talked to numerous people on numerous forums, and everyone's got a different opinion. I've heard so many different setup options my head is spinning. Here's my situation... I'm at 05773 Wallingford, VT. I'd like to get stations in (either not both) 12201 Albany, NY or 05401 Burlington, VT. Here's the kicker... I'm roughly 78 miles from the towers in Albany and 74 miles from the towers in Burlington. My clearest shot would Albany. What would be best for my setup? I'd like to get as many networks as possible. Albany would be at 237 deg. from my locale, and Burlington would be at 20 deg. I've talked to the guys at Winegard as well as AntennasDirect, station engineers, you name it. Everyones got a different solution. Option#1 All-in-one, like a CM 3671 or Wingard HD8200P with CM 7777 pre-amp Option #2 91XG, along with a V21 or something better???, a combiner, and a pre-amp??? Option #3 Your recommendation goes here! I wish I knew how to attach photo's here. I could show you 8 photos of the different TIGER coverage maps for each of the stations within their markets. I'm so sick of not being able to get the HD network feeds it's making me sick. I can't get them through dish or any other way at this point in time. So, I'm thinking OTA may be my only prayer!!! Please help. Last edited by DeerHunter; 02-07-2007 at 10:53 PM.

02-04-2007, 08:51 AM	#171
Dolphan High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: West of the Eastern Continental Divide Posts: 33	Thanks a lot for the help! Great Forum as well.

02-04-2007, 04:52 PM	#172
gvgsteve HD ... it's finally here Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 7	First off, thank you for all your responses and patience with those of us still learning the off-air game. The CM4228 you recommend is also a bowtie antenna, which takes up much less space. I am planning on installing in an attic with limited space, so this will fit perfectly. I understand that the attic will take its toll, but with my space considerations, should this be fine? Also, any tips of pitfalls in trying to install/mount this is tight quarters? Thanks again!

02-08-2007, 07:08 AM	#177
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,557	From the directv website "Did you know that some DIRECTV customers may be eligible to receive non-local feeds of major broadcast networks? Eligibility is governed by federal law, and is determined by several factors including: You don't live near a metropolitan area You can't get any TV reception whatsoever You live more than 70 miles from TV station broadcast towers Did you try getting the locals from NYC and Los angeles. http://directvdnseligibility.decisio...dressform.aspx Looks like you qualify...May be a good idea to pursue Now in regards to antennas...digital reception at 75 miles can be a challenge for many families even under favorable conditions. Antenna engineers can design great antennas that can perform beyond your wildest expectations. But there is one thing that can kill your chances of reception. Your local geography. And that is what you will be faced with there. The cm3671 and HD8200p are great combo antennas. but a little deficient on the UHF side and workable on the VHF side . Therefore prefer separates for reception challenges. The albany market has digital on high band vhf. therefore suggest a cm4228 or 91xg uhf combined with a winegard ya1713 or antennacraft y10 7-13 yagi through a cm7777 preamp. With maybe rg11 to cut down on losses. Then if that does not work you double up with 2 of each mounted side by side. all this mounted as high as possible. Then you cross your fingers and hope you receive someting. as so http://home.indy.rr.com/challengerul/antenna.html Hills block digital signal. I have been involved with installs as close as 5 miles from towers using the best antennas and can only get 1 channel if I am lucky...because there was a big ass hill in the way.

02-08-2007, 08:38 AM	#178
Rick0725 Antennas by Committee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clay, New York Posts: 1,557	fyi Eligibilty review for the following for Directv: WALLINGFORD, VT 05773 Digital (HD) Distant Network Service...national hd service from NYC. Network Affiliate Status ABC Eligible CBS WCAX-DT Grade B (moderate signal) ...file a waiver FOX Eligible NBC Eligible suggest to go for it! call customer retention for the waiver.

02-08-2007, 09:12 AM	#179
DeerHunter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wallingford, VT Posts: 56	Thanks guys, but I just contacted DirectTv, and they said.... because they provide a local package for my area, I would NOT be allowed to get any DNS??? WTF!!! I'm so friggin' mad it's not even funny. I've talked to D* directly they so no DNS. The link posted above, for the DNS eligibilty says I can get 3. I don't know who to talk to anymore, and can't seem to get a straight answer. I'd be willing dump E, give them my credit card #, sign up with D....IF they could with 100% certainty tell me I COULD get the DNS HD feeds. HELP. I'm livid. __________________ In Need Of HDTV!!!! Last edited by DeerHunter; 02-08-2007 at 09:17 AM.

02-08-2007, 09:17 AM	#180
tigerbangs Antenna Maven Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 54 Posts: 2,101	I tend to agree with Rick on this one: you are going to have to spend a considerable sum for an antenna system and get little or no potential benefit for it. If you are a D subscriber now, then consider Rick's option. If you are NOT a D subscriber, you might consider another route: drive to Canada and pick up a Bell ExpressVu package. It's legitimacy is questionable in the US, but I know a LOT of Vermonters who have done so. It's cheaper than D, and it has the Boston digital stations, rather than the NYC stations, which may appeal to cranky old Yankees...LOL : Their TSN-HD Sports channel carries the Red Sox in HD! Bell really doesn't care who you are: give them a credit card for payment, and they are happy as clams at high tide. http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpTv_Dth_Landing.page Oh, BTW, theit porn channels are a LOT better than the US channels...LOL __________________ Real men don't use indoor antennas; neither do real women! Last edited by tigerbangs; 02-08-2007 at 09:29 AM.