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Deep Fringe - Low UHF

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #1
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Default Deep Fringe - Low UHF

Hi! I already asked this on tvfool forums but got mixed answers, and then I found tigerbangs great Deep Fringe prescription thread here. The only reason I am asking for specific recommendations beyond his thread is because my fringe channels are all low-uhf and I have seen mixed reviews about the XG91 versus some 8-bay and other annennas at the low UHF frequencies. Here are my tvfool reports, so I wondered if this prescription would still be best for me or not.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df971f99183e1

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df9de1477065d


My zip code is 80807, its mostly flat with few hills or other obstructions except trees here in town. High winds and hail are common here. Right now I will put the antenna up 20' give or take. Other than my camper antenna I am currently using for the channels to the east, the only equipment I have is 10' tripod mast (1.5" dia), 50' or so of RX6 carrying my cable internet, 50' of smaller coax carrying my tv signal from the camper, and several Magnavox digital converter boxes.

I was thinking of trying the best possible low-uhf antenna to get 14-29 to the north (HD-8800, Clearstream 4, XG91, HD-9032,...) though there are trees that direction in the neighborhood. If that doesn't work thanks to the trees I may try to take a stab at the ones to the south (34-40) which are weaker but less trees, being higher uhf I'm assuming these would be best with the XG91 per tigerbangs.

FYI I do still want to get the signals to the east (10, 17, 19), I currently get them via my RV's antenna & amp. Someone recommended a Clearstream 4 with one screen removed to get my northern and my eastern channels with just one antenna. While just having one antenna would be great I want the best possible reception on the fringe channels so I was thinking of optimizing my system for the fringe and then just adding an Antennacraft HBU22 or something pointed to the east and running it to a second converter box at my main tv. What do you guys think about it all? Thanks alot!

Last edited by ohazco; 10-05-2012 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #2
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The Channel Master CM 7698P would be a much better choice....
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Antennaman View Post
The Channel Master CM 7698P would be a much better choice....
I assume you mean the Winegard 7698. As a one antenna system pointing it to my fringe channels and then take the eastern channels in on the side/rear?
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:05 AM   #4
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Yep - I must have had a brain fart - trying to multi task and not doing anything well.. Thank you for the correction...
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #5
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There have been many antenna comparisons reported on the various antenna forums. The XG-91 is compared against 8-bay antennas and the Winegard PR9032 here: http://www.antennahacks.com/AntennaComparison.htm On UHF, the Winegard PR9032 was similar to the Winegard 7698. However, when compared against the XG-91, the PR9032 was slightly worse on the low end of UHF than the XG-91.

Antenna gains for several commercial antennas are modeled here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html If you look at the net UHF gain chart, the Winegard 8800 appears superior to Xg-91 below channel 30. However, the 8800 has tended to underperform in real world testing... If you scroll down to the third graph, you can see the modeled UHF gain for the Winegard 7698 (labeled FF in the graph). The XG-91 has higher modeled gain on the low end than the Winegard 7698.

If you're willing to build your own, there are some gray hoverman variants with outstanding low UHF gain (see: http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/)

Last edited by IDRick; 10-06-2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #6
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Thanks Rick, so in your experience is the XG91 the best real world low-uhf antenna still commercially available? Is their any chance of picking up my eastern channels from the side of any of these antennas?

I would love to make my own, but that page was mostly chinese to me so probably not an option.

Last edited by ohazco; 10-07-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:39 PM   #7
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I personally have not used the XG-91 but it has an outstanding reputation in all the antenna forums that I read... The XG-91 has a fairly narrow beamwidth but you likely will still received ch 19 from the east while ch 17 has a lower probability due to lower signal strength and the "potential touchiness of two-edge signals"...

Sorry about that, the page is mostly "chinese" to me to but I can tell you that author is a well respected antenna modeler. I haven't built a GH but there are several modelers at this site that have built them: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #8
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I have noticed that, though it seems from looking through the forums that I am in a rare minority with all my fringe channels lying below 30. I think I will give the 91 a shot and if I have to add a second smaller combo antenna to the east so be it. I have to say I somewhat question TVFools data on CH 17 seeings that I get it with my RV antenna 24/7 with 80+% signal strength.

Do you have a pre-amp recommendation? I am thinking the AP 8275 or 10G202. Do I need one with multiple input if I want to combine a VHF antenna (if all I am missing with the XG91 is Ch 10) or can I use a combiner before the amp?

Last edited by ohazco; 10-07-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:25 PM   #9
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A general rule of thumb is to buy a preamp that covers all your distribution losses plus 10 dB. After a quick thread review, I gather you only have 50 ft of cable and no splitters, right? If that is the case, then a mid range pre-amp such as the Winegard AP8700 or AP 2870 will meet your needs. You'll need a uvsj if you buy the AP8700 (see: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...-Antenna-(UVSJ) A uvsj has a max insertion loss of 0.5 dB.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:11 AM   #10
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Yep, that should work then. Thanks... you've been a big help! Is there any loss in a simple barrel or double male connecter, whatever you call them?
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:22 AM   #11
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Very little unless the connection is defective.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #12
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I bring in a real Ch. 16 station (WPTD) from Dayton with an XG-91 and no preamp, though at my location tvfool lists a NM of about 30 for it. No big problem with pixelation or freezing up. I see many of your low UHF signals are weaker than that, though.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:56 PM   #13
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In real world testing, I have found the 91XG to outperform the Winegard 8800 & the original Channel Master 4228 down to channel 15.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #14
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Thanks everyone!! Installed my XG91 today with a 10G202 preamp. I get all the Denver repeater stations from the north, and much to my surprise, the three Kansas channels from the side, even VHF channel 10!! 24 different channels in all. Thanks again!
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:51 AM   #15
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It looks like you have the problem solved. It is always good to hear someone is happy with antenna TV.

Last edited by Gary350; 10-21-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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