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What should I do - the sequel

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Old 01-20-2012, 09:16 AM   #1
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

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Default What should I do - the sequel

Branching into new territory with my own thread. I have copied the previous posting on the other thread as I thought this most relevant and added some additional thoughts.

I have read what you say re the pre amp however,as I am new to the OTA world and as the house I have bought has a mast and rotor I have decide to give it a go. I think the antenna is a channel master with a pre amp again CM and a rotor again CM. The mast is about 35 feet high and I have an elevated position with only a couple of deciduous trees.


I currently get most channels on an everyday basis but CBS is casing problems and ABC which was initially great has disappeared.
I am looking for any assistance regards an upgrade to allow me to collect the Networks with reasonable strength. My NBC, Fox and ION are always there.
I have the rotor tuned at 161 degrees, moving to the TV fool setting looses my PBS.

Suggestions from installers have ranged from hi gain very selective antenna to 8 bay CM, most say CM7777 pre amp, some say aim what you have and add a diplexers to connect both together, I need a distribution amp for internal TV s again CM has been recommended. With the electronics mostly being the same I am confident in that but it is the antenna that is the most crucial as with out a good signal the rest is just connectors.

It was suggested that the 7777 was not in my future as it might overload the signal from channel 30 - which is close. As I previously posted , I am looking for US network channels and it is being a little elusive in some respect. As I previously said I did have a very good ABC signal but in the last 3 weeks this has been at best pot luck, CBS is another hit or miss - although lately it has been good with the occasional pixelated signal.
I would be happy to invest in a better antenna and even join my existing in a fixed location through a diplexers and the new one on my rotor.
I have the option to connect my sat dish system into the mix , as I am in a location where both channel 6 and 27 are analogue and digital is available but not OTA I can ask for free sat to cover this. This means connection the antenna and sat onto the single coax, is assume via another diplexers?
Thanks for allowing me to ramble on, it would appear to be a wiring and associated connections minefield, but first I would like to get the signal sorted.

Many thanks in advance and if you need further info I will try my best.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:46 PM   #2
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Your link for address doesn't work for me.
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:52 PM   #3
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

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Sorry about that, I have updated the link.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:07 PM   #4
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Welcome asgard to the forum
here is your tv fool report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9ae60ecf01b

I know that there are several members on here that can help you sort this out.

Good Luck
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:32 PM   #5
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To asgard,

Welcome back to your thread where this forum can concentrate on only your issues. And IMHO, you have an above average number of issues. Especially when you have a large variety of Canadian Channels that may go digital in the near future. So people who know more than I do about the Canadian digital transition may be helpful.

Beyond that, when troubleshooting issues, I find it helpful to play what do I know and what don't I know. So you have a CM antenna, a CM amp, a CM rotor, a 35 foot tower, coax all in unknown condition. Plus we know nothing about your television set and its ability to lock channels into memory. So if nothing else asgard, if you could post a picture of your cm antenna, experts on this forum could give you an idea of what model it is and it gain specifications. capabilities. That and the fact you might profit by reading the Tiger Bang thread on deep fringe reception and a multiple antenna strategy. And on the down side, your channel 30 is the only close station, but on the up side its really weak and way off aim.

Then you say you are using an antenna aim of 161 degrees, which is 15 degrees or more from the 176 degree optimal setting and more if we talking true or magnetic North, I have to wonder if you have some tall structure blocking a 176 degrees aim. Have you tried moving left instead of right to alter antenna aim? Maybe an aim of 190 or more might do better?

I think there are more questions than answers right now to easily answer. And if your TV rotor works, I would play with antenna aim first because it costs nothing.

Just my initial take and lets see what others say.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:09 PM   #6
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

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Thanks for that lead in.

Well as far as I can assess, the house was built in 2006 and the wiring is all new coax, it is run from the plant room and is terminated in each room at a wall outlet. I was thinking of putting in a distribution amp so I don't have any losses using a splitter. Antenna is remote from the house run is about 90 feet it has 2 straight connectors in that run.
I do not have any obstructions to the mast except some trees about 150 to 120 degrees. I tuned my mast to true north by calibrating it using 00 on the rotor unit. I have scanned all the angle between 0 and 360. I feel the Canadian channels are less of an issue as we tend to watch US network. The signal from 30 is very good 1080i and digital but 6 and 27 are analogue.
As it is cold and snowing I have not ventured up to the masthead to see what the pre amp is, I will try in the next couple of days and have a look on the power unit inside - at least that will be safer. I thought if it was an older pre amp it would be sensible to upgrade to a 7777 titan 2 but comments were made against that - although having spoken to an installer - he recommended it, he also tough a very specific tight aim high gain would be best, I thought more a 8 bay CM.
I did read through the thread you suggested and took away some additional info.

As for TV it is a Samsung 52 inch 1080 hd and a 32 inch 720. It is a single scan arrangement where everything on before is lost by the next scan.

I am currently getting a super picture on channel 10 NBC, 10.1Me Tv, 10.2Weather, 30 CBC, 18 and 26 TVO, 21.1 PBS hd, 21.2 PBS world, 21.3 create, 30-1 Fox, 31 Cool Tv, 51.1 ION, 51.2 Qubo, 51.3 Ion Life.

8.1 and 8.2 CBS are coming in weak but when locked on very good, 13.1 and 13.2 ABC lost most of the time but when it comes in - excellent , channels 6 CTV and 27 Global are both analogue and bad, I can adjust the mast to 225 and get Global better but still has a very noticeable shadow, 6 is like watching through a snow storm.
I previously used satellite but as our TV viewing is low in hours I thought it less than good value.
hope this adds a little more clarity.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:43 AM   #7
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Asgard,

Can you identify your current antenna(s)? If so, please give us make and model number. If not, can you post a picture, perhaps someone can identify. Without knowing what you are using, I would suggest the XG-91 for UHF and the Antenna craft y10-7-13 for high VHF. Both of these separates are likely to be an upgrade in gain over a combo antenna. Also can you flesh out the professional recommendations given to you? Local boots on the ground should have a better understanding of what is needed, though not always... Finally, can you tell us about your distribution set up: how many feet of cable, how many splitters, how many tvs?

thanks!
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:04 AM   #8
How can anyone watch standard def?
 

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Thanks .

I had a look at the pre amp but it just gives the power unit number CM 7047.

Cable is Home Worx digital RG6U 2.25 Ghz and 60% Braid Bonded.
distance from Antenna to pre amp is about 120 feet with 2 straight connectors in that length.
2 TVs although at the moment I transfer the one I am watching at the pre amp by switching cables.
installation suggestions were given over the phone - no site visit.


Last edited by asgard; 01-22-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:25 AM   #9
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Picture of antenna
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File Type: jpg CIMG3401.JPG (73.8 KB, 30 views)

Last edited by asgard; 01-22-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
Picture of antenna
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not expert on CM antennas but it sure looks like a CM3679 which is rated as only a 60 mile antenna by CM.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/Di..._p/cm-3679.htm
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #11
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Asgard,

Thanks for posting a picture of your antenna and giving details on your OTA distribution. I agree with NonMcTubber, your current antenna appears to be a CM3679. Switching to the TigerBangs deep fringe solution (XG-91 and Y10-7-13 antennas) would appear to be an excellent choice in your situation. Both antennas will improve gain on your troublesome US channels (CBS and ABC). You have one strong UHF antenna that may cause pre-amp overload with the CM7777. A winegard AP8700 can easily cover your distribution losses plus have ~10 dB to spare. It is less susceptible to overload than the CM7777. Alternativley, if you want higher gain amplifier, consider an antenna craft 10g201 preamp and a variable attenuator to adjust amp output if needed. See: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...lifier-(10G202) and http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=853748001293

Good luck!
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:18 PM   #12
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Thanks for the update. I have looked over my Tv fool graph and see most of my US channels are at 65 miles, why is the CBS and even more so the ABC channel harder to get?

I have looked at your suggestions and wonder how you operate 2 antenna on a single mast head pre amp. I was also looking at the CN 3671 crossfire 100 mile units and that seems a tidy upgrade. I will have to find out what pre amp I have before deciding on a new one. even with the connectors in the RG6U cable from tower to house I will have more than enough gain, basing on a maximum length of 120 feet that gives me about a 10db loss. If I then add in a distribution amp I have no further losses.
Is it better to use a diplexer instead of a splitter. I need to split the line to feed both my HD tv and a converter box to feed my DVD recorder, I don;t want to use the pass through but be able to watch and record different shows at the same time.
I really appreciate all your assistance and ask these further questions as a possible alternative.
I await your pearls of wisdom.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
Thanks for the update. I have looked over my Tv fool graph and see most of my US channels are at 65 miles, why is the CBS and even more so the ABC channel harder to get?
Two edge signals are challenging to acquire and can vary, even if broadcast from the same tower. Changing antenna location and/or height can sometimes resolve the issue. Trial and error is the name of the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
I have looked at your suggestions and wonder how you operate 2 antenna on a single mast head pre amp.
Great question! The CM7777 has separate inputs for a UHF and VHF antenna. Simply connect the antenna to the correct input and the preamp does the joining for you. There are other amps that have separate VHF?UHF inputs. Alternatively, one can use a UVSJ to join the two antennas into a single downlead, see: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...-Antenna-(UVSJ)


Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
I was also looking at the CN 3671 crossfire 100 mile units and that seems a tidy upgrade.
The tigerBangs deep fringe solution uses separate antennas that are at or near the top of their class for gain. They will do a much better job than a large combo antenna. You do have two low VHF channels (real ch 2 and 6). Will these channels remain post transistion and are they important to you? If so, then yes, you need a full range antenna and I would recommend a Winegard 8200U over the CM antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
I will have to find out what pre amp I have before deciding on a new one. even with the connectors in the RG6U cable from tower to house I will have more than enough gain, basing on a maximum length of 120 feet that gives me about a 10db loss. If I then add in a distribution amp I have no further losses.
Great point, hopefully you can find a model number on the pre-amp somewhere.... The amplifier will cover your distribution losses and reduces system noise since the NF for a tv tuner is higher than the NF for the preamp. Resolving reception issues for CBS and ABC starts first with an improved antenna and then a properly sized pre-amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asgard View Post
Is it better to use a diplexer instead of a splitter. I need to split the line to feed both my HD tv and a converter box to feed my DVD recorder, I don;t want to use the pass through but be able to watch and record different shows at the same time.
I really appreciate all your assistance and ask these further questions as a possible alternative.
I await your pearls of wisdom.
Short answer, use a splitter. Long answer, A splitter simply splits OTA signal so you can hookup it up to more then one tv. A diplexer is used so you can get antenna and satellite over one cable. Two are required, at one end you hook up the satellite signal to one port and the antenna to the other. Then the single port you hook up whatever length of rg6 that you want and run it through the house or attic. Then you take the other one and hook it up and you have cable or antenna on one port and satellite tv on another.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:36 AM   #14
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Some stores are calling a UVSJ a diplexer. (technically correct but now ambiguous) This is what you want to join the two antennas not the satelite diplexer. Inside you may need either a splitter or distribution amp.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:01 PM   #15
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Well I braved the elements today in an attempt to see what pre amp I had but could not see anything from below. Where on the black enclosure would it say, or do you need to open it up. If so that will be a big challenge - at this time of year.

To try to understand this further , do I mount the two antenna on the rotor? As for channel 2 it is not important and 6 is CTV which should be digital by later this year.
Could you tell me how to read the TV fool stuff, what does the signal power represent and why when the main networks are all shown at 65 miles and the same angle are some harder to get. It is confusing me when I get such good clear signals with my current antenna from these location I need another one. Last night I had all the channels and then later it went a bit pixelated and eventually ABC went .
It would appear that you are saying antenna before bigger pre- amp. it might be that the pre- amp is good enough for the losses I have , and if i use a distributing amp for round the house that takes these losses out the mix.
I really appreciate your information and patience.
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