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What are the HDTV channel frequencies?

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Old 01-30-2010, 06:28 AM   #1
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Default What are the HDTV channel frequencies?

I want to build an antenna for my HDTV. I have done a web search and I see things have changed frequencies are not what they use to be. What are the correct frequencies for HDTV channels. Channel 2 use to be 54 to 60 MHz for analog TV but now it is listed as RF 27, does that mean the frequency is 548 to 554 MHz that is the frequency of channel 27 for analog TV?

There are 26 channels I can receive but I am only interested in 17 of them.

Channel.......RF...........Degrees..........Miles. ................Frequency

2-1.............27..............295..............26. 8......................?
2-2

4-1.............10..............305..............31. 4......................?
4-2

5-1..............5...............322..............33 .7......................?
5-2
5-3

8-1..............8...............295.............26. 8......................?
8-2

17-1...........15...............321.............33.8. .....................?

28-1...........36..............321...............34.. ....................?
28-2
28-3
28-4

30-1...........21..............321.............33.8.. ....................?

58..............23..............321.............33 .8......................?
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:10 AM   #2
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The channel/frequencies in the US TV band did not change. Channel 2 is still 54-60 MHZ, channel 7 is still 174-180 MHZ, etc.

What did change is that channel 52-69 went away for full-service broadcasters and, in many cases, the current digital RF channel assignment is no longer the same as the original analog channel assignment.

When selecting an antenna, you must consider the current RF channel assignment without regard to the old analog assignment (now the "virtual" channel).
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:15 AM   #3
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_station

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html

http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html

Because you have both UHF and VHF frequency's, you would need several antenna's and not just one. Antenna design, dictates that you have a frequency goal range, and when your wavelength falls outside that box, your antenna will be the wrong length and you will not be able to receive that frequency.

Your best bet would be to buy a Winegard 8200U antenna.

Without a proper address, there is no way to suggest anything more or less then that.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectsho89 View Post
The channel/frequencies in the US TV band did not change. Channel 2 is still 54-60 MHZ, channel 7 is still 174-180 MHZ, etc.

What did change is that channel 52-69 went away for full-service broadcasters and, in many cases, the current digital RF channel assignment is no longer the same as the original analog channel assignment.

When selecting an antenna, you must consider the current RF channel assignment without regard to the old analog assignment (now the "virtual" channel).

I bought one of these antennas and put it up. I picked up nothing. I did pick up channel 8 barely, it faded in and out but mostly out. I was not using a pre amp then. The antenna was on the roof about 23 ft from the ground. My house is on a slight hill I am probably 10 ft higher than all the other houses in the neighbor hood. I live on Hartford Dr. Murfreesboro TN 37129. I have 2 antennas that I built they are 8 element dipole collinear arrays that I designed and built using a 1973 Amateur Radio Antenna Handbook. Each array has 2 dipole elements to match the channel frequency that I want to pick up. One antenna is pointed at 300 degrees to pick up channel 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 4-2, 8-1, 8-2, the other antenna is pointed at 322 degrees to pick up 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, 17-1, 28-1, 28-3, 30-1, 58-1. I designed the antennas using the old analog frequencies. My antennas work ok but could work better. Channel 8 fades in and out sometimes and from day to day channel 28 sometimes shows 97% on the field strength meter and sometimes it shows 55%. I was told on the Electronic Forum that the frequencies have changed. Channel 2 is now RF 27 but I have no idea what RF 27 means? If you go to www.antennaweb.org it tells the TV channel and the RF channel for each but it says nothing about the frequency. Channel 2 = RF 27, 4 = RF 10, 5 = RF 5, 8 = RF 8, 17 = RF 15, 28 = RF 36, 30 = RF 21, 58 = RF 23.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
I bought one of these antennas and put it up. I picked up nothing.
What antenna?

The RF channel relates to the "real" frequency in use. The "real" channel frequencies did not change from analog to digital. RF-27 means the signal is on channel 27 (548 - 554 MHz). Any TV channel chart that lists the frequencies vs channels will be the same. See my previous comment. Just google "TV channel frequency chart".

www.tvfool. is the best online tool available online for estimating signals available at a given point. If you go there and run your exact address and height, come back and post the share link so we can evaluate signals properly. See the first post in this thread for suggestions: Recommendations when posting for advice

Also, keep in mind that the channel on RF 5 is also running a 15kW UHF simulcast on UHF channel 50 since RF-5 couldn't cut it in the city.

Last edited by projectsho89; 01-30-2010 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectsho89 View Post
What antenna?

The RF channel relates to the "real" frequency in use. The "real" channel frequencies did not change from analog to digital. RF-27 means the signal is on channel 27 (548 - 554 MHz). Any TV channel chart that lists the frequencies vs channels will be the same. See my previous comment. Just google "TV channel frequency chart".

www.tvfool. is the best online tool available online for estimating signals available at a given point. If you go there and run your exact address and height, come back and post the share link so we can evaluate signals properly. See the first post in this thread for suggestions: Recommendations when posting for advice

Also, keep in mind that the channel on RF 5 is also running a 15kW UHF simulcast on UHF channel 50 since RF-5 couldn't cut it in the city.


I think this is what your telling me

Channel..............old frequency...............RF.................new Frequency

2......................54-60 MHz...................27.................548-554 MHz

4......................66-72 MHz...................10.................192-198 MHz

5......................76-82 MHz....................5..................76-82 MHz

8......................180-186 MHz................8................180-186 MHz

17....................488-494 MHz..............15.................476-482 MHz

28....................554-560MHz...............36.................602-608 MHz

30....................566-572 MHz..............21.................512-518 MHz

58....................734-740 MHz..............23................524-530 MHz

Frequencys are still the same but channel 2 is really channel 27 because it is the RF frequency for channel 27.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:53 PM   #7
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You just learned what virtual channel remapping does! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_channel

It's part of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSIP
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:29 PM   #8
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When considering which antenna to buy you can TOTALLY disregard the X-1 channel number and ONLY use the RF channel in making your choice.

The X-1 channel is a virtual channel and does not necessarily have any relationship to the actual frequency on which the channel is broadcast.

You need not concern yourself with the actual frequency of the channel, but look at what frequency band your channels fall within.

Channel 5-1 unfortunately is on RF channel 5 which is a low vhf band channel requiring a rather large antennna.

Channels 4-1 and 8-1 are on RF channels 10 and 8 respectively and thusly are vhf high band channels.

All the rest are UHF channels which require the smallest type antenna.

You will either need an all channel antenna or a vhf high/low antenna combined with a seperate uhf antenna. The first choice will probably be the cheapest, but the second will likely give you the best performance.

Building a UHF antenna is not that difficult, but especially the vhf low antenna and to a lesser degree the vhf high band antenna are much more difficult to build because they require much larger active elements, directors and reflectors.

There are several sites on the net that offer assistance in building a vhf yagi type antenna, use Google to find building a yagi antenna - several even have built-in calculators for element sizing.

As for the UHF antenna, there are many web sites that will help with this, even u-tube videos that step you through construction.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:54 PM   #9
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Not to single you out Jim or to jump on your back, because every one here has been relatively good lately and nobody has been overly vicious; but VHF antenna's only uses elements. The elements are connected together with phasing lines which mechanically makes the antenna think that it is bigger and allows the array to tune itself to the frequency you desire.

Technically, when you use a big antenna like the old / Radio Shack VU 190, the phasing lines connected directly to the dipole for the UHF.

The key to the elements is the length and the size and the space between each element. Not having any phasing lines touch each other and short itself out and making a good connection to the transformer.

Once you get to that point, it is all down hill from there.

As we have learned, there is good RG 6 and not so good RG 6.
The good RG 6 uses copper and crimp on terminals, and the cheap wire uses aluminum braid and copper plated aluminum center conductor and twist on terminals. The difference between them is like buying a new Corvette and trying to put 13 inch wheels and tires on it off a 1980 Chevrolet Citation.

The technology for antenna construction has not changed in 40 years, so the book you used is just fine for what you wish to do.

He did give a exact general address, so we do have something to work off. Hartford Dr. Murfreesboro TN 37129.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c723116fa5074f
His radar report is spectacular.

As I have said before, if you wish to receive low VHF channels, your best bet is to use a Winegard 8200U antenna.

Because the signals comes from all directions, he would need a antenna rotor to receive them to the best of his ability. That would be the most difficult thing about trying to put up one antenna and using one general aim.

You would have the same problem using 4 antenna's and A/B switches as you would have using a antenna rotor. But my guess is that if you use a sufficiently large antenna and you have nothing 3 or more stories high between you and the transmitter, you could get away with one or two general aim's with the 8200U antenna.

At that range, I wouldn't be afraid to try the HBU 22.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:04 AM   #10
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Hi Gary,
After reading thru this thread I have a couple of observations...

First, it seems to me the decision to retain a "virtual channel" to maintain some silly station image has caused more confusion that it has avoided - wouldn't it have been easier, for instance, to just do a rescan and have WKRN on ch27, instead of seeing it on [virt] ch2.1 and having to do research to find out it's actually transmitting on ch27??? Doesn't everyone know the call letters of their local stations? So what if it's now WKRN-27 instead of WKRN-2 WHO GIVES A CRAP???!!! Whateva...

Secondly, it is obvious you like doing things yourself. So if I were you I'd save one of those H/M's & aim for ch5 and build either a Grey-Hoverman with NARODs for VHF-High or an M-4 (mclapp 4-bay bowtie) with a reflector, set at an aim of ~305

Bring them together on one downlead with an HLSJ: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...tters&sku=HLSJ
These are dirt cheap, reject out of band reception, (which can cause interference) and have only 0.5dB insertion loss - making it a much better choice than a splitter used in reverse. I would think this would give you a good shot at everything available from your 292-349 directions from a fixed aim.

Just some thoughts,
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #11
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I took electronics in college and graduated but that was 40 years ago. I never did much with antenna until about 6 years ago when I built my first one so I am still learning about antennas.

I really only need my antenna pointed in 2 directions, 321 degrees will pick up channels, 17, 28, 30, 58 and 5. Between 295 and 305 degrees I can pick up channels, 2, 4, and 8.

I don't care about any other channels they are either duplicates of the above channels, or advertisment channel, cartoon channel, or other things I don't care about.

I think I can point one antenna at 300 degrees and bandwidth will be wide enough to pick up 295 and 305.

After reading all the information I can find and checking out all the links you guys posted I can see I have made several mistakes in the antennas that I built.

I built a yagi several years ago. It pulls in a very good signal but it is too sensitive the antenna has to be aimed exactly at the station and bandwidth is not wide enough to pick up anything but that one station. I had some fun playing around with yagi antennas I picked up some stations 300 miles away but only for a few minutes each time.

At the moment my antenna is only 6 ft off the ground. I had a smaller antenna on the roof for a while and it worked great but the storms and tornados we keep having around here I had to climb up on the roof every other day to readjust the antenna. I did that for over a year then I decided it would be a lot safer not to be climbing up on the roof all the time so now the antennas are close to the ground. Neighborhood rules do not allow antennas but no one has complained yet.

I experemented with an antenna in the attic signal was extremely poor. The same antenna picked up a stronger signal down stairs in the living room. The same antenna picked up a stronger signal outside setting on top of a 3 ft tall plastic trash can. I permently mounted the antennas 6ft off the ground so I can continue to experement fairly easy.

My antennas are copies of the Channel Master 8224 antenna. I looked at the picture and used my Amateur Radio book to design it for the frequency I need.

After reading the links you guys posted I see my antenna bandwidth can be wider if I change the design. The new design still has the same gain. This may keep me from needing a rotor I will just have to experement and see how it goes.

I had a 4 bay antenna that was working fine on the roof but now that the antenna is only 6 ft off the ground I need a 16 bay antenna which is equal to having 2 channel master 8224 antennas in parallel.

I have not been using a balun. Yesterday I experemented with a balun and so far I can not tell it does anything. I left it on the antenna so I can keep an eye on it.

I would like to have my antenna about 40 ft up but I am afraid that would be a red flag and someone would complain. If I can get the antenna up 25 ft my house roof will block its view from the street. This should give me good reception about equal to what I had when the antennas were on the roof.

I need a tower. But I'm not sure how to get an antenna up there. A can climb a triangle tower, I would have done that when I was young but not anymore. With a light weight pole tower I might be able to push it up by hand if it is not heavy. A small antenna will help.

I am going to need a low vhf or channel 5, high vhf for channel 8 and 10, uhf for all the other channels.

Channel 5 seems to be the hardest to pick up a strong signal. Yesterday I experemented with building an antenna just for channel 5. The elements need to be 6 ft long each, total of 12 ft across. I used 2 sections of #14 copper wire 6 ft long each wrapped around 1/2" PVC pipe for a total length of 2 ft long. The physical size is small but the antenna thinks it is large. One element picks up a signal of 50% upstairs. I added another element signal increased to 75%. I added another element signal increased to 93%. This is pretty good if I have this on a pole outside and 25 ft it should do better.

I have already experemented with the other channels an 8 element UHF antenna 20.750" wide with bowtie elements works excellent I get a signal of 98% on channels 17 thru 58.

Next I need to experement with channel 4 and 8 which equals RF 8 and 10 frequency 186 to 192. The elements need to be 28.8" long or 57.6" tip to tip. I think I will try another antenna like I did for channel 5 with 28" elements coiled to make the phycially smaller.

Once I get all the parts and pieces figured out then I will decide what to do. I need to combine everything I have learned into 1 antenna it should have a bandwidth wide enough I can aim it at 308 degrees and pick up all the channels and not need a rotor.

I could buy an antenna but there is no guarantee it will do what I want. I bought an antenna a few years ago. It was the best model the store had and it was suppose to pick up all the channels. After putting it together it didn't pick up much at all so I returned it.

Last edited by Gary350; 02-01-2010 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:29 PM   #12
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You can dispense with a massive pain in the a$$ if you can pick up channel 5's UHF channel 50 signal..... Try receiving it before investing in a channel 5 antenna.

I think you mean "beamwidth", not "bandwidth"... Commercial antenna have half-power beamwidths of 25-70 (typical) degrees. They usually don't have to be perfectly aimed for near-in work.

We'd still like to see your TVfool plot since we have no idea of what your local conditions actually are......

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Old 02-01-2010, 09:40 PM   #13
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I can pick up channel 50 but none of them are WTVF channel 5 Nashville.

50-1 is TBN

50-2 is Church

50-3 is JCTV

50-4 is Enlace

50-5 is Smile

I also pick up these channels

50-1 WPGD no signal.

50-2 WPGD no signal.

50-3 WPGD no signal.

50-4 WPGD no signal.

50-5 WPGD no signal.

These are some of those stations I have no interest in receiving.

Link to TV fool.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c723a9ba6c6194


Link to antennaweb.org

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Stations.aspx

Channel 50 WPGH is HENDERSONVILLE, TN

Street map http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/displayMap.aspx


News Channel 5 http://www.newschannel5.com/


Channel 5-1 is WTVF Nashville

Channel 5-2 is WTVF Nashville

Channel 5-3 is WTVF Nashville Movie Channel non stop movies with NO advertisements.


TV Guide

http://tvlistings.aol.com/listings/t...&zipcode=37201

Last edited by Gary350; 02-01-2010 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:12 AM   #14
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You are still confusing virtual and real channels. All those "channel 50"s are virtual channels.

Look at the 12th entry in your TVfool table. That's the UHF channel 50 translator for WTVF. If it is found in a channel scan, it will map to virtual channel 5.x. Try connecting only your UHF antenna to your receiver, reset it , and rescan. If you can get it on UHF, you don't need that monster antenna for low-VHF.

According to Trip, WTVF's RF50 is at 100 kW under an STA. That should be plenty of power to reach you but you have to go through the proper steps to get it.

Last edited by projectsho89; 02-02-2010 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:51 AM   #15
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When I turn my TV and change the channels it shows the channel numbers. When the TV says channel 5 it says News Channel 5 WTVF Nashville. So I know I am on channel 5 and RF 5 too.


When the TV says channel 50-1 to 50-5 then it is one of these channels,

50-1 is TBN

50-2 is Church

50-3 is JCTV

50-4 is Enlace

50-5 is Smile

I also pick up these channels

50-1 WPGD no signal.

50-2 WPGD no signal.

50-3 WPGD no signal.

50-4 WPGD no signal.

50-5 WPGD no signal.

When I change channels I can see on TV this is not channel 5 WTVF Nashville.


My TV is not picking up a channel 50 with out a -1 or -2 or -3 or -4 or -5 after the number 50. If there is suppose to be a channel 50 then it is not there. I have re scanned and 50 is not there. I took one of my other antennas up stairs and set it in the window it picks up 36 channels after I do scan but there is still no channel 50 other than 50-1, 50-2 and so on.


TV fool shows channel 50 but AntennaWeb does not show channel 50. Is channel 50 really there or is that a mistake on TV fool?

I clicked on the link above and it is not showing any information on antenna web. I logged in then copied and pasted the link but it only shows the log in page.

OK go to www.antennaweb.org and type in my address, clips the options you will see a list of all the channels it does not show channel 5 being on 50. There is no channel 50 listed on that page.

Here is my address, 3031 Hartford Dr, Murfreesboro, TN. 37129

There must be an error on TV fool because I am not picking up channel 50 and it does not show channel 50 on antenna web.
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