Tuner sensitivity

OnTheFringe · 12-10-2009, 02:01 PM

Hi all,
I have a Panasonic TC-P50G15 TV. I'm trying to receive stations OTA about 65 miles away. The Panny can get 6; my $50 Zenith digital to analog converter can get 14. I switch the antenna coax between the two; I'm not using a splitter. Is there a sensitivity adjustment on the Panasonic? Any other suggestions?
I've e-mailed Panasonic tech support a couple of times, but they're ignoring me.
Forgive me if this has been discussed before. I'm obviously a newbie, but I did search the forums before posting.
TIA.

IDRick · 12-10-2009, 02:27 PM

Welcome to the forum Onthefringe!

As your results show, digital tuners vary in sensitivity. The best way to improve results with the Panasonic is to provide more signal to the tuner via: a higher gain antenna and better positioning to improve received signal.

Which antenna are you presently using and where is it located?
Are you using an amplifier? If so, which one?
How many feet of cable in the distribution run and how many tvs?

Can you please go to www.tvfool.com and enter your actual address? Tvfool will generate a report that helps us to better understand your reception challenges and possibilities. Please post the link to the results in your reply. Since you are new, you can't directly post a link. But you can fool the system by adding spaces between letters in the link such as: w w w . t v f o o l . c o m etc

HTH,

Rick

NonMcTubber · 12-10-2009, 03:15 PM

I can only agree with the IDRick recommendation regarding TVFool and your other wide range of options to improve your television reception.
Its hard for anyone on this forum to advise you without knowing more about your situation.

But what I wish to add to the discussion is that you may not be making a fair apples to apples comparison assuming you are comparing your Panasonic HD TV channel reception with the reception you get with a converter box hooked up to an old style analog television set.

Simply because the analog TV has a lower hill to climb, as it only has to display a picture with only 480 scan lines while the HD Panasonic is trying to assemble enough digital information to display a picture requiring 720 to 1080 scan lines.

OnTheFringe · 12-10-2009, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the response, IDRick. I have a ~60" Yagi on the roof, about 30 ft above the ground, and I'm on top of a hill. I have a Motorola booster amp in line, and a ChannelMaster 7777 will be here Monday

I have less than 100 ft (estimate) of coax cable from the antenna to the TV. At the TV end, the cable goes into a surge suppressor, then to the Motorola amp, then to the TV. No splits, and one junction with a barrel connector about half way along the cable.
I posted without all the gory details 'cause the $50 converter box can receive much better than the $[many] Panasonic. So the signals are there, but the Panny shows a perfect 0 signal strength on some of them

I was hoping against hope that there might be some tweak I could do.
Just saw the response from NonMcTubber--thanks. I have the converter box connected to the Panasonic HDTV. That works, but with the converter box feeding an analog signal to the TV, some of the channels are ..um.. fuzzy.
I'll get on the tvfool site and post back.
Thanks again.

aka.Hooper · 12-10-2009, 04:09 PM

Welcome OnTheFringe.

I'll third the previous motions of Rick & NMT and add that from what I've read, it is not unusual at all that the tuner in the converter box blows away the tuner in the TV.

I'll assume that Motorola amp is an inline amp and not a preamp at the antenna like the CM7777 you have on order. Which should give you better results, btw. Assuming you don't have any close, strong transmissions that might overload it - we wait on that exact location tvfool report...

Oh, and what model is that yagi?

OnTheFringe · 12-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDRick

Can you please go to <snip> and enter your actual address? Tvfool will generate a report that helps us to better understand your reception challenges and possibilities. Please post the link to the results in your reply. Since you are new, you can't directly post a link. But you can fool the system by adding spaces between letters in the link such as: w w w . t v f o o l . c o m etc

HTH,

Rick

Rick,
The link to tvfool dot com + slash + ?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d7d5249ba417b3 9 [There is no space between the 3 and 9 at the end of the link as shown in the preview.]

With the Panasonic I can pick up real channels 13, 15, 20. With the converter box I can pick up additionally 7, 10, and 28. The antenna is pointed approximately 338 degrees.

aka.Hooper: the antenna came with the house when I bought it last spring. It's probably 15 years old. It's about 5 feet long with a V approximately amidships with the open end pointed toward the transmitters. FWIW, I agree with your assessment of the tuners. Panasonic may be assuming that anyone who will pay that much for a TV will be paying for service, too

Thanks to both for your help.
Chuck

aka.Hooper · 12-10-2009, 04:31 PM

Here's your tvfool link:
http://tvfool.com/?option=com_wrappe...7d5249ba417b39

Quote:

Panasonic may be assuming that anyone who will pay that much for a TV will be paying for service, too

Sad but I fear probably very true...

Any chance of a picture of the antenna you have?
Sounds like a VHF-High/UHF combo at least.

IDRick · 12-10-2009, 04:40 PM

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for posting your tvfool info! Here is the link: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7d5249ba417b39

Thanks for posting the channels received under both situations. You have one fairly strong nearby station (KWSU, real channel 10). The CM7777 pre-amp should work fine in your situation because your antenna is well off direct aim on ch 10 (reduces received signal and minimizes the probability of overload). You made a great choice in pre-amp!

You'll get the most bang for your buck by mounting the pre-amp on the antenna mast (see directions with CM 7777).

Can you take a picture of the antenna and post here? Someone here can probably identify the antenna.

You'll be able to post links and pictures after five posts. Simply do a couple test replies to this thread. Then save the image to your hard drive. Select reply, then go advanced, scroll down to manage attachments, use browse to find the picture on your hard drive, then press upload. After it's done uploading, submit your post. It's easier to do than describe.... If you want, I will PM you my e-mail address and post the image for you.

Best,

Rick

OnTheFringe · 12-10-2009, 08:57 PM

[Post #4

]
Rick, I see from your sig you're from eastern Idaho. May I ask where? We just moved to north Idaho from the Rigby area.
Chuck

NonMcTubber · 12-10-2009, 09:07 PM

Since I was zero for one on the tuner comment, I might as well go for zero out of four.

1. Your TVFool report is hardly anything to brag about. But since channels 10 and 12 are fairly strong, they should come in no matter what even if the main antenna aim is more like 338 degrees. Thus saving you the cost of an antenna rotor.

2.. At 15 years old in a rough weather state, its time to suspect both the antenna and the coax as possible problems. With a 100' run of coax, its not expensive to replace the coax with new high quality RG-6 or better. After that, see what the 7777 amp does for reception.

3. It would help to identify the antenna, and after that we can retrieve antenna gain figures. But still, a 60 inch Yagi antenna tends to be on the short side when compared to Yagi antennas with large collection areas. I note you go 2 edge at less than 26 miles, which implies to me that you need all the signal collection area you can get. But you might look at the Tigerbangs thread recommendations for deep fringe reception.

IDRick · 12-10-2009, 09:13 PM

Hi Chuck,

I live in Idaho Falls and have several friends from the Rigby area. My son graduated from Skyline High School and played against the Rigby Trojans in Junior High Football. I've been up to the U of I many times and usually drive through Montana over to Coer D' Alene and then south to Moscow. I'm a bit familiar with your part of the Palouse. Nice place to live!

Did you coach a SB team in the IF CCSBL? If so, we know each other...

Best,

Rick

IDRick · 12-10-2009, 10:36 PM

Chuck,

Your current setup is actually doing fairly well, given the reception challenges in your location.

1) You'll get maximum benefit from the CM 7777 by installing the pre-amp on the antenna mast and putting the power inserter near your tv but **before** the surge suppressor.

2) Make sure you remove the Motorola amp and it's power inserter. The CM7777 will provide plenty of amplification for your setup and has a lower noise factor than the Motorola amp.

3) The present setup has the Motorola amp after most of the cable run and surge suppressor. You are losing ~3 to 5 dB with the cable run and an unknown amount going through the surge suppressor then amplifying. You could temporarily by-pass the surge suppressor and see what happens to signal strength. You may find a nice boost in signal...

4) How did you ground the coax from the antenna? Is it through the surge suppressor only? The recommended procedure for grounding the coax and antenna are discussed here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html Scroll down near bottom of page.

5) NonMcTubber brings up a great point that coax and/or connectors may need replacing after 15 years of use, particularly the coax and connectors that are outdoors.

Let us know how it works out for you!

Best,

Rick

OnTheFringe · 12-11-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDRick

Did you coach a SB team in the IF CCSBL? If so, we know each other...

Best,

Rick

Yup--I thought that might be you. Say 'Hi' to Dr. J for me.
[5th post

]
I'll try to get a photo of the antenna tomorrow and attach it. Good point, NonMcTubber, about the age of components. I'll know more about the condition of the cable and connections when I try to put that ChannelMaster up next week.
I just found I could get channel 10 last week. Obviously it's coming in off the side of the antenna. I don't know if Wazoo upgraded their transmitter, or what

Chuck

OnTheFringe · 12-11-2009, 02:47 PM

Rick and NonMcTubber,
I've attached a picture of the antenna I'm using to receive distant stations. See what you think.
Chuck

IDRick · 12-11-2009, 08:42 PM

Hee, hee, small world Chuck!

Thanks for posting a picture of your antenna. It looks like an AntennaCraft CCS1233. The number of elements and general design match. Your antenna appears to have a longer boom than the one shown in the picture though. Perhaps it's missing some elements? Specs for the CCS1233 are here: http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/CCS1233.pdf

Let us know how it works out with the CM 7777.

All the best Chuck!

Rick

12-10-2009, 02:01 PM	#1
OnTheFringe ilegetimi non carborundum Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Idaho, USA Posts: 21	Tuner sensitivity Hi all, I have a Panasonic TC-P50G15 TV. I'm trying to receive stations OTA about 65 miles away. The Panny can get 6; my $50 Zenith digital to analog converter can get 14. I switch the antenna coax between the two; I'm not using a splitter. Is there a sensitivity adjustment on the Panasonic? Any other suggestions? I've e-mailed Panasonic tech support a couple of times, but they're ignoring me. Forgive me if this has been discussed before. I'm obviously a newbie, but I did search the forums before posting. TIA.

12-10-2009, 03:15 PM	#3
NonMcTubber High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,292	I can only agree with the IDRick recommendation regarding TVFool and your other wide range of options to improve your television reception. Its hard for anyone on this forum to advise you without knowing more about your situation. But what I wish to add to the discussion is that you may not be making a fair apples to apples comparison assuming you are comparing your Panasonic HD TV channel reception with the reception you get with a converter box hooked up to an old style analog television set. Simply because the analog TV has a lower hill to climb, as it only has to display a picture with only 480 scan lines while the HD Panasonic is trying to assemble enough digital information to display a picture requiring 720 to 1080 scan lines. __________________ High definition is not the definition of my life. But knowledge is power and HD does have some potential to increase content variety and choices.

12-10-2009, 04:09 PM	#5
aka.Hooper "Babe" 2002-2009 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Eastern Suffolk, LI, NY Posts: 709	Welcome OnTheFringe. I'll third the previous motions of Rick & NMT and add that from what I've read, it is not unusual at all that the tuner in the converter box blows away the tuner in the TV. I'll assume that Motorola amp is an inline amp and not a preamp at the antenna like the CM7777 you have on order. Which should give you better results, btw. Assuming you don't have any close, strong transmissions that might overload it - we wait on that exact location tvfool report... Oh, and what model is that yagi? __________________ Some details on my DIY antenna builds: http://mysite.verizon.net/res11d41p/ Some tips for newbies posting to the forum for the first time: http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...ng-advice.html

12-10-2009, 08:57 PM	#9
OnTheFringe ilegetimi non carborundum Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Idaho, USA Posts: 21	[Post #4] Rick, I see from your sig you're from eastern Idaho. May I ask where? We just moved to north Idaho from the Rigby area. Chuck

12-10-2009, 09:07 PM	#10
NonMcTubber High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,292	Since I was zero for one on the tuner comment, I might as well go for zero out of four. 1. Your TVFool report is hardly anything to brag about. But since channels 10 and 12 are fairly strong, they should come in no matter what even if the main antenna aim is more like 338 degrees. Thus saving you the cost of an antenna rotor. 2.. At 15 years old in a rough weather state, its time to suspect both the antenna and the coax as possible problems. With a 100' run of coax, its not expensive to replace the coax with new high quality RG-6 or better. After that, see what the 7777 amp does for reception. 3. It would help to identify the antenna, and after that we can retrieve antenna gain figures. But still, a 60 inch Yagi antenna tends to be on the short side when compared to Yagi antennas with large collection areas. I note you go 2 edge at less than 26 miles, which implies to me that you need all the signal collection area you can get. But you might look at the Tigerbangs thread recommendations for deep fringe reception. __________________ High definition is not the definition of my life. But knowledge is power and HD does have some potential to increase content variety and choices.

12-10-2009, 02:27 PM	#2
IDRick High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Idaho Posts: 2,233	Welcome to the forum Onthefringe! As your results show, digital tuners vary in sensitivity. The best way to improve results with the Panasonic is to provide more signal to the tuner via: a higher gain antenna and better positioning to improve received signal. Which antenna are you presently using and where is it located? Are you using an amplifier? If so, which one? How many feet of cable in the distribution run and how many tvs? Can you please go to www.tvfool.com and enter your actual address? Tvfool will generate a report that helps us to better understand your reception challenges and possibilities. Please post the link to the results in your reply. Since you are new, you can't directly post a link. But you can fool the system by adding spaces between letters in the link such as: w w w . t v f o o l . c o m etc HTH, Rick

12-10-2009, 03:25 PM	#4
OnTheFringe ilegetimi non carborundum Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Northern Idaho, USA Posts: 21	Thanks for the response, IDRick. I have a ~60" Yagi on the roof, about 30 ft above the ground, and I'm on top of a hill. I have a Motorola booster amp in line, and a ChannelMaster 7777 will be here Monday I have less than 100 ft (estimate) of coax cable from the antenna to the TV. At the TV end, the cable goes into a surge suppressor, then to the Motorola amp, then to the TV. No splits, and one junction with a barrel connector about half way along the cable. I posted without all the gory details 'cause the $50 converter box can receive much better than the $[many] Panasonic. So the signals are there, but the Panny shows a perfect 0 signal strength on some of them I was hoping against hope that there might be some tweak I could do. Just saw the response from NonMcTubber--thanks. I have the converter box connected to the Panasonic HDTV. That works, but with the converter box feeding an analog signal to the TV, some of the channels are ..um.. fuzzy. I'll get on the tvfool site and post back. Thanks again.

12-10-2009, 04:40 PM	#8
IDRick High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Idaho Posts: 2,233	Hi Chuck, Thanks for posting your tvfool info! Here is the link: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...7d5249ba417b39 Thanks for posting the channels received under both situations. You have one fairly strong nearby station (KWSU, real channel 10). The CM7777 pre-amp should work fine in your situation because your antenna is well off direct aim on ch 10 (reduces received signal and minimizes the probability of overload). You made a great choice in pre-amp! You'll get the most bang for your buck by mounting the pre-amp on the antenna mast (see directions with CM 7777). Can you take a picture of the antenna and post here? Someone here can probably identify the antenna. You'll be able to post links and pictures after five posts. Simply do a couple test replies to this thread. Then save the image to your hard drive. Select reply, then go advanced, scroll down to manage attachments, use browse to find the picture on your hard drive, then press upload. After it's done uploading, submit your post. It's easier to do than describe.... If you want, I will PM you my e-mail address and post the image for you. Best, Rick

12-10-2009, 09:13 PM	#11
IDRick High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Idaho Posts: 2,233	Hi Chuck, I live in Idaho Falls and have several friends from the Rigby area. My son graduated from Skyline High School and played against the Rigby Trojans in Junior High Football. I've been up to the U of I many times and usually drive through Montana over to Coer D' Alene and then south to Moscow. I'm a bit familiar with your part of the Palouse. Nice place to live! Did you coach a SB team in the IF CCSBL? If so, we know each other... Best, Rick Last edited by IDRick; 12-10-2009 at 10:41 PM.

12-10-2009, 10:36 PM	#12
IDRick High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Idaho Posts: 2,233	Chuck, Your current setup is actually doing fairly well, given the reception challenges in your location. 1) You'll get maximum benefit from the CM 7777 by installing the pre-amp on the antenna mast and putting the power inserter near your tv but before the surge suppressor. 2) Make sure you remove the Motorola amp and it's power inserter. The CM7777 will provide plenty of amplification for your setup and has a lower noise factor than the Motorola amp. 3) The present setup has the Motorola amp after most of the cable run and surge suppressor. You are losing ~3 to 5 dB with the cable run and an unknown amount going through the surge suppressor then amplifying. You could temporarily by-pass the surge suppressor and see what happens to signal strength. You may find a nice boost in signal... 4) How did you ground the coax from the antenna? Is it through the surge suppressor only? The recommended procedure for grounding the coax and antenna are discussed here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html Scroll down near bottom of page. 5) NonMcTubber brings up a great point that coax and/or connectors may need replacing after 15 years of use, particularly the coax and connectors that are outdoors. Let us know how it works out for you! Best, Rick Last edited by IDRick; 12-10-2009 at 10:42 PM.

12-11-2009, 08:42 PM	#15
IDRick High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eastern Idaho Posts: 2,233	Hee, hee, small world Chuck! Thanks for posting a picture of your antenna. It looks like an AntennaCraft CCS1233. The number of elements and general design match. Your antenna appears to have a longer boom than the one shown in the picture though. Perhaps it's missing some elements? Specs for the CCS1233 are here: http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/CCS1233.pdf Let us know how it works out with the CM 7777. All the best Chuck! Rick

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