Do I really need the deep fringe prescription?

t3lh

Hi, newbie here.
I have some property in Idaho that I have a trailer on. I get about 4 or 5 channels now using the stock power antenna that came with the trailer. Its about 15' high.
I dont have an actual address, but if you put : N Bunco & E Bunco rd. Athol, ID. 83801 tvfool will get you within 1/4 mile or so of my property.
Quite a lot of trees around.
I can put up any height pole.
What do you think I need?
Thanks, Tim

JB Antennaman

You can do what ever you want, it doesn't matter to me if you can watch more then 4 stations or not.

Do you want advice on how to improve your reception or do you just want to blow off some steam?

With a Winegard 8200 U antenna and a CM 7777 pre amp, you would probably get 13 channels with little or no issue, as long as you put your antenna 35 feet above ground.

There is a couple VHF channels in your area and the lowest is channel 7 and channel 8. Channel 7 and 9 are both fairly low power. That along with a 13 and a 15 rules out trying to use a XG 91 for all your reception needs. My guess would be that you can get some VHF better then UHF due to the limitations from your antenna set up and loss in the wire in the UHF frequency's.

I do not know what challenges there is between you and the transmitter when the signal is coming out of Spokane Wash. But I would guess that you have a lot of woods between you and the transmitter.

Your stations are mostly all stacked in one direction and you would not need any type of rotor to get them.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8adff1660d52d4

__________________
Where is the Kaboom? There is supposed to be a earth shattering Kaboom!

IDRick

Hello Tim! Welcome to our forum! I see you've met our less than welcoming JB... Back in your cage JB....

JB loves the Winegard 8200 antenna/CM 7777 pre-amp combo and he recommends it whenever he can. First, you do not need a large full range antenna since there are no low VHF stations in your area. Second, the channels in your area are too strong for a CM 7777 pre-amp. So, scratch the Winegard 8200 and scratch the CM 7777. JB did read the tvfool correctly. You have three high vhf channels (ch 7 KSPS PBS; ch 9 KXMN; and ch 13 KXLY ABC) along with 8 UHF channels.

I would recommend a Winegard 7696 antenna, aimed at ~230 degrees (compass heading). This should give you all the local channels. No need for a pre-amp. I assumed mounting at 20 feet. TVFool uses Noise Margin (NM) as a measure of signal strength. NM's do *not* vary at 10, 20, and 30 foot mounting heights, suggesting you have a variety of mounting height options. However, TVFool does not account for trees. How tall are the trees near your home? Presumably they're evergreens, correct? Is there a location where you have a clearing or break in the trees due west for ABC and another clearing (break in trees) to the south/southwest? If so, that is the ideal location for siting your antenna mast.

Here is your tvfool results with a 20 ft mount height: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8adf99f4be1da1

HTH,

Rick

BTW, beautiful country up there in north Idaho!

BrianO

These types of remarks are totally uncalled for. Please keep them to yourself in future, and try instead to post some useful information that actually addresses the poster's query without burying the information under a mountain of irrelevant drivel.

JB Antennaman

It's not a home, it is a trailer - as in maybe a camping trailer parked in a permanent location - campsite.

T3lh - said "I have some property in Idaho that I have a trailer on. I get about 4 or 5 channels now using the stock power antenna that came with the trailer. Its about 15' high.

So if IDRICK can read - he can see that the op said TRAILER and not HOME.

When camping trailers were made back in the 70's, 80's and 90's - they usually had some sort of VHF Winegard crank up type antenna.

As we all know, a VHF antenna does not work for UHF.

Height equals gain and T3lh said that there was tall trees all around his / her location and they wanted to know if they needed a better set up then a regular old antenna to receive television.

So IdRicks prognosis was that you did not need any type of strong amplification and you did not need any type of deep fringe antenna.

Attacking my post does nothing to prove your creditability.

In most areas of the country, there is no channels lower than 6, so what you call low VHF - does not relate to VHF anymore - because with a Low Power station, you need all the help you can get.

The 7698 is a wonderful antenna as long as you do not have any channels below 8 or is low power. It gives you some performance and allows you to receive UHF and VHF - but is not the best performer when you add trees and hills and mountains and valleys to the situation.

From time to time, you have to realize that you might need all the help you can get and the best way to help to receive as many stations as possible is to buy the biggest antenna you can afford.

__________________
Where is the Kaboom? There is supposed to be a earth shattering Kaboom!

IDRick

JB,

I stand by my original recommendations. No need for the 8200 or a CM 7777.

BTW, my calling the trailer a home is not really germane to the whole discussion anyways.... Could be a summer retreat, hunting camp, or many others...

Have a nice day!

t3lh

IDRick,
Thanks for the warm welcome! Yes it is nice up here, getting cold tho. How is everything where you are? I hope to semi-retire up here soon.

JB,
Thanks for the ..er.. not so warm welcome

Any hoo, back to biz.

I did quite a bit of surfing this site befor asking my qusetion, so I'm semi-informed but not an expert by any discription.
Thats where you guys come in.
I looked at the tvfool report, and was thinking that most my channels wouldent require the DF set up. But since I dident know for sure how many of the distance channels were of any use to me I asked my orignial question.
IDRick's idea is kind of what I was looking for, but JB makes some good points.
Money is not too much of a concearn, however like most people I would rather not spend $500 to find out that $200 would have got me about the same thing.

I wonder if a compromise starting point would to be to try a W8200 by itself and grow from there?
Thanks, Tim

IDRick

Your welcome Tim! Getting cold down here in eastern Idaho as well. We've already had snow twice. Should help the hunters with some snow in the upper elevations and maybe help drive the southern migration for duck hunters like me...

A couple quick things... You might want to check out this page and compare antennas that you are considering. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

The Winegard 7698 is simply a cut down version of the 8200. According to Winegard it has the same gain as the 8200 in high vhf = uhf. Personally, I would go with the smaller antenna such as the 7696. But, obviously, it's your decision.

Good luck with whichever you decide!

Rick

aka.Hooper

t3lh, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Is true, is true!
And if you've been lurking here awhile, I'm sure you weren't too flustered by our JB.

Despite the fact that JB has recommended an antenna bigger than your residence - you don't need it!

I fail to see anything below RF ch 7 on your tvfool, and so an 8200 would be pointless, as Rick has already explained. It would be a waste of money in purchasing the antenna, and a waste of money in the added structural reinforcement needed for the extra size this large LOW VHF antenna will need - and it will get you nothing more than the 769x series cause, there's nothing there to get!

So IMO, if you just want to grab everything down to KGPX RF 34, a DIY bowtie with a reflector for VHF ch 7 would prob get you by. (I'm a big fan of trying to do things myself) And you may be able to get KXMN RF 9 out of it too, if done right, well the first one anyway - BTW, what's with the two KXMN 9 transmissions?

If you'd like to get as much as poss, and do it without any labor, go with the 7696 Rick recommends.
If you have many trees, or if your exact location is dissimilar to the tvfool on the table, then add a Winegard HDP-269 amp, which will handle your strong locals and give you a little kick for what may be lower, for whatever reason...

__________________
Some details on my DIY antenna builds:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res11d41p/

t3lh

Hooper, Thanks for the info!
After reading the comparison link that Rick gave me ( thanks!) and reading your info, I think I'm starting to understand.
I'm not sure whats up with the dupe channels. Of the few I'm getting now, some are the same program on a different channel. I think maybe some are out of Spokane?
I havent spent very much time watching TV there (I reside in Seattle) so I'm not up on what the local channels are.

I applaud your DIY and normally I'm all for giving it a try, but my time in Idaho is limited so I think I'll buy the 7696.
That do you guys use for mast material?
Thanks, Tim

aka.Hooper

You're quite welcome Tim!

As for mast mat'l you can get standard 5' & 10' masts mail order at places like solidsignal.com or you can just pick up a 10' length of 1-1/4" galvanized electrical conduit from Home Depot or Lowe's for <$10. I'm not sure how you'd mount it to a trailer though.

Another choice would be a telescoping mast, which would also get you plenty of height:
http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_h30_tel...enna_mast.html
or:
http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-push-up-mast.htm
Either of these could be done freestanding, with guy wires for support, thus allowing you to find a spot for the antenna with the clearest view of the transmitters. (And don't be afraid to go a little ways from the trailer - that's where the HDP-269 amp I mentioned will come in handy, and make up for the line loss.)

Here's a little more info on installation, as a reference:
http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf

Hope that helps,
Hooper

__________________
Some details on my DIY antenna builds:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res11d41p/