Would You Upgrade to a New Receiver Right Now Just for PLIIz?

Peter Marlowe · 08-25-2009, 02:14 PM

With the release of the Onkyo 607 and its much-lauded "Pro Logic IIz Height" circuitry (this receiver is being reviewed in every publication like wildfire because of this feature), and the subsequent release of other receivers with the feature, is it necessary to dump the models we're running now -- even if they're up to date with HDMI 1.3a, etc. -- just to have the height channels? Is it THAT crucial?

What do you fellas (and ladies) think?

Stew4HD · 08-25-2009, 03:12 PM

I won't be upgrading just for the height feature... just like I haven't upgraded to get DD+ or DTS MA capabilities. The thought of 6 HDMI inputs is tempting....

What vidoes use the height feature?

deadhead68 · 08-25-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

I won't be upgrading just for the height feature... just like I haven't upgraded to get DD+ or DTS MA capabilities. The thought of 6 HDMI inputs is tempting....

+1. I also won't like having to install 2 more "height" speakers in my smallish TV room. Also, the reviews I have seen were pretty unflattering.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-10220826-47.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10230238-1.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

What vidoes use the height feature?

From what I read, any video with a Dolby Digital soundtrack.

DeadHead68

Peter Marlowe · 08-26-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

I won't be upgrading just for the height feature... just like I haven't upgraded to get DD+ or DTS MA capabilities. The thought of 6 HDMI inputs is tempting....

What vidoes use the height feature?

The SOFTWARE itself doesn't "utilize" or "necessitate" the height channels -- the Pro Logic IIz height specification is more of an "added" layer of processing that can be used on top of the soundtrack's established sound mix.

HOWEVER, the whole thing is cloudy to me -- what I just reported, even -- and we're all still learning about the PLIIz algorithm. It seems, according to reviews of the 607, that the reviewers are running standard DVD and BD soundtracks and then applying PLIIz height OVER these tracks to expand the soundfield (with added speakers in their room, of course) -- not even sure how that works in theory...

You don't have a processor that supports TrueHD or Master Audio yet? Are you running these soundtracks decoded out of your source deck?

Peter Marlowe · 08-26-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadhead68

+1. I also won't like having to install 2 more "height" speakers in my smallish TV room. Also, the reviews I have seen were pretty unflattering.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-10220826-47.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10230238-1.html

From what I read, any video with a Dolby Digital soundtrack.

DeadHead68

Supposedly, from what I understand, there are "spatial cues" and such derived from Dolby Digital etc. soundtracks to encompass the "height" factor, adding more dimension to a film; not sure if it actually "works" or not, but I have read many positive things about the Onkyo 607 and this height feature in deference to the reports you posted here. The latest issue of Sound & Vision has Brent Butterworth not too impressed -- but not disappointed either -- if I am not mistaken, and I have read other positive remarks about the PLIIz workings.

Loves2Watch · 08-26-2009, 09:53 AM

I believe that you must hear it and see if it is worth the upgrade cost to you...

Chris Gerhard · 08-26-2009, 10:34 AM

I haven't paid any attention to PLIIz so this thread is all I know. My quick response is I absolutely won't upgrade just to get that ability. If years from now, it is considered an essential processing mode, I guess I will have to reconsider.

Chris

DaveJ · 08-26-2009, 10:36 AM

I think this quote from Cnet says it all.

"We've listened to 7.1 many times before, and know it's a fairly subtle improvement. So unless your room is really large, with space behind your couch, seven channel isn't likely to create a more immersive, wrap-around soundfield than 5.1. In fact, I'd recommend sticking with 5.1, but take the money you would have spent on the height speakers and buy better main, left/right speakers. That's an improvement you won't have to struggle to hear."

dave

Loves2Watch · 08-26-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveJ

I think this quote from Cnet says it all.

"We've listened to 7.1 many times before, and know it's a fairly subtle improvement. So unless your room is really large, with space behind your couch, seven channel isn't likely to create a more immersive, wrap-around soundfield than 5.1. In fact, I'd recommend sticking with 5.1, but take the money you would have spent on the height speakers and buy better main, left/right speakers. That's an improvement you won't have to struggle to hear."

dave

7.1 is NOT what we are talking about here but rather a new height added to the front array of speakers. The difference IS clearly noticeable...

oblioman · 08-26-2009, 09:52 PM

This could be an interesting concept, say with 2 speakers flush mounted above the seating arena. May have to tweak em back a bit to be suttle. A movie like 28 Days Later that has an interesting rain scene could fade in nicely with traditional 5.1.

Peter Marlowe · 08-27-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

7.1 is NOT what we are talking about here but rather a new height added to the front array of speakers. The difference IS clearly noticeable...

Indeed, L2W...we're not talking about 7.1 -- I am uncertain where he clipped the article from (I know it was CNET but what it was actually talking about, I am unclear...I don't think it's about PLIIz though; PLIIz adds height algorithms to already existing channels/soundtracks) but what concerns me now is that you have heard it and are saying it's CLEARLY noticeable...makes me wonder if stepping up to the 607 or beyond (or considering another brand with the PLIIz feature) is something to consider now...

Loves2Watch · 08-27-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Marlowe

Indeed, L2W...we're not talking about 7.1 -- I am uncertain where he clipped the article from (I know it was CNET but what it was actually talking about, I am unclear...I don't think it's about PLIIz though; PLIIz adds height algorithms to already existing channels/soundtracks) but what concerns me now is that you have heard it and are saying it's CLEARLY noticeable...makes me wonder if stepping up to the 607 or beyond (or considering another brand with the PLIIz feature) is something to consider now...

Again, I suggest that you demo it with several movies and determine if the price of a new receiver is worth it to you. I found it to add much more depth and presence to movie soundtracks I already own and love so it was/is worth the added expense to me. On the other hand, I am an early adopter and don't consider $ too much when finding new technology that is of benefit to me no matter how small an improvement that may be.

You /we have to look at the cost vs. diminishing returns at some point but in this case I believe this technology to be well worth the added expense.

New Onkyo TX-SR607 and an Oppo BDP-83 would be a killer combo. You would be the envy of everyone who heard/saw it...and all of your neighbors would drool. Of course you would have to add 2 more speakers as well to take advantage of the "height" feature.

Stew4HD · 08-27-2009, 08:21 AM

Too bad the new HEIGHT feature isn't in addition to 7.1 (err, 9.1?). I would consider getting an AVR with something that. I need more than just the extra HDMI inputs and height to swap out my Denon 4806. So far, I am able to get by with 3 HDMI and using component/TOSLINK but would like to go all HDMI at some point.

oblioman · 08-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Too bad the new HEIGHT feature isn't in addition to 7.1 (err, 9.1?). I would consider getting an AVR with something that. I need more than just the extra HDMI inputs and height to swap out my Denon 4806. So far, I am able to get by with 3 HDMI and using component/TOSLINK but would like to go all HDMI at some point.

But they are calling it 9.1 - http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...-iiz-demo.html

Stew4HD · 08-27-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

But they are calling it 9.1 - http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...-iiz-demo.html

Hmm... don't go showing me that!!! Makes my wallet itch!

I wonder when 9.1 compatable will be hitting the market?

08-25-2009, 02:14 PM	#1
Peter Marlowe Blu-ray Reviewer Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,257	Would You Upgrade to a New Receiver Right Now Just for PLIIz? With the release of the Onkyo 607 and its much-lauded "Pro Logic IIz Height" circuitry (this receiver is being reviewed in every publication like wildfire because of this feature), and the subsequent release of other receivers with the feature, is it necessary to dump the models we're running now -- even if they're up to date with HDMI 1.3a, etc. -- just to have the height channels? Is it THAT crucial? What do you fellas (and ladies) think? __________________ ONKYO TX-SR605B HDMI 1.3a; Onboard Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio Panasonic DMP-BD10A SONY 1080p KDS-50A2020 SXRD Mains: polkaudio R20 Center: polkaudio CSi30 Surrounds: polkaudio R15 Sub: polkaudio PSW10 marantz CC4001 TASCAM CD-RW900SL PROFESSIONAL Technics SL-QD33 (due for replacement) APC SurgeArrest System INTERCONNECTS & SPEAKER CABLING BY MONSTER Last Review:

08-25-2009, 03:12 PM	#2
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,068	I won't be upgrading just for the height feature... just like I haven't upgraded to get DD+ or DTS MA capabilities. The thought of 6 HDMI inputs is tempting.... What vidoes use the height feature? __________________ ___________________________________

08-26-2009, 09:53 AM	#6
Loves2Watch SPAM Police Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: AZ, NM, TX, MX Posts: 13,940	I believe that you must hear it and see if it is worth the upgrade cost to you... __________________ Theater 1 - Panasonic TH-85PF12U Plasma TV, 6 Conrad Johnson LP275M Amps, Anthem Statement D-2 Pre/Pro, 6 Thiel SCS4 Speakers, 2 REL T-1 Subs, Infinity Interlude 120S Sub, Simaudio MOON Orbiter Universal Disc Player, ELP Laser Turntable, 2 Dish Network ViP 622 DVR's, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player. Friends don't let friends buy Korean brand TV's.

08-27-2009, 08:21 AM	#13
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,068	Too bad the new HEIGHT feature isn't in addition to 7.1 (err, 9.1?). I would consider getting an AVR with something that. I need more than just the extra HDMI inputs and height to swap out my Denon 4806. So far, I am able to get by with 3 HDMI and using component/TOSLINK but would like to go all HDMI at some point. __________________ ___________________________________

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08-26-2009, 10:34 AM	#7
Chris Gerhard High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 8,207	I haven't paid any attention to PLIIz so this thread is all I know. My quick response is I absolutely won't upgrade just to get that ability. If years from now, it is considered an essential processing mode, I guess I will have to reconsider. Chris

08-26-2009, 10:36 AM	#8
DaveJ In HT, size matters Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alameda, an island in SF Bay Age: 61 Posts: 101	I think this quote from Cnet says it all. "We've listened to 7.1 many times before, and know it's a fairly subtle improvement. So unless your room is really large, with space behind your couch, seven channel isn't likely to create a more immersive, wrap-around soundfield than 5.1. In fact, I'd recommend sticking with 5.1, but take the money you would have spent on the height speakers and buy better main, left/right speakers. That's an improvement you won't have to struggle to hear." dave

08-26-2009, 09:52 PM	#10
oblioman OTIS,,me hero Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Someville TN Posts: 4,557	This could be an interesting concept, say with 2 speakers flush mounted above the seating arena. May have to tweak em back a bit to be suttle. A movie like 28 Days Later that has an interesting rain scene could fade in nicely with traditional 5.1.