Aspect Ratio Rant

spta97 · 08-27-2008, 08:17 PM

I'm an HDTV newbie (two weeks) and have already been annoyed by aspect ratios on my HD programming. I have noticed the following:

1) Often commercials stretch a 4:3 into a 16:9 ratio. Sure I don't like commercials but it is just annoying to me that they won't spend the extra cash to redo them. I saw a Mercury commercial where the cars are stubby and the chick is fat (now). Arrg.

2) HD channels that use SD programming stretch the image as well. I appreciate the better quality, but why stretch it?

3) Why must you use 2.35:1 aspect ratio on TV shows? I'm not talking a movie, but a made for TV show. I have my 4:3 until Friday and I see TWO sets of horizontal black bars. I get that Bluray/DVD or movies that use 2.35.1 but what is the point on TV shows?

4) Black bars in general - I know the history behind the different aspect ratios, but why didn't TV makers and Hollywood go to a standard? I you really going to drag your butt to a movie just because they have a slightly higher ratio?

5) Lack of quality standard in picture quality - All HD is not made equal. The olympics looked fantastic, other channels (ie: TNT), not so much.

That said, HD programming has ruined me for SD (on my large screen anyway).

joekewl1971 · 08-27-2008, 08:42 PM

Welcome to HD forum. Get used to it. Life is not perfect. There is a lot to like about HD. I am sure you will find many enjoyable programs. If you hate stretch, find something else, or use SD. I like letterbox. I do not get it all the time. Aspect ratios are never perfect. Even 1.37:1 becomes 1.33:1. Cable is very convenient. I think HD is amazing. I have way more selection than I could possibly use, and more is on the way. Start off with happy thoughts.

spta97 · 09-02-2008, 06:31 AM

I have my new Mitsubishi 73" DLP hooked up and am really enjoying the HD programming. Luckilly, I am able to find enough to watch in 16:9 but I still get annoyed at the bars.

I find that programmers are using black bars on for additional advertising so may be intentionally keeping the letterbox (with bars) format.

I agree though, HD is something else - just wish they would standardize everything.

18 is # 1 · 09-04-2008, 01:57 PM

Don't forget that this is an emerging technology. Those of us old enough to remember 8 tracks, cassettes, LPs, VCRs, and finally CDs and DVDs, also remember the periods of transitions, growing pains, and compatibility issues. To see the difference in program availability just in the last year is staggering.
Be patient, we'll get there, but it may be a couple of more years.

BrianO · 09-04-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18 is # 1

Those of us old enough to remember 8 tracks, cassettes, LPs, VCRs, and finally CDs and DVDs

Hey! What about 78s and 45s?

18 is # 1 · 09-04-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianO

Hey! What about 78s and 45s?

Remember how we thought we could put our records on CD...and then we heard how bad they were?

brant · 10-11-2008, 10:22 PM

i didn't like it at first, but you get used to it after awhile.

when you say 2.35:1 on tv shows, i think what you're seeing is 16x9 inside a stretched 4x3 format. i mostly see this on the history channel. if you look at the SD version, its 16x9 inside a 4x3 w/ horizontal bars. on the HD version, they just stretch that and it looks like 2.35:1. That is actually pretty annoying.

something interesting i saw the other day on starz cinema (i think that's what its called); i get that channel in SD only and they actually had 2:35:1 OAR in SD 4x3. it made for a very short (vertical) picture. That's the first time i've ever seen that.

joekewl1971 · 10-12-2008, 06:16 PM

Never seen 2.35:1 wide screen SD?? What have you seen? The 16:9 TV has a feature, most commonly referred to as zoom. The picture is cropped and blown up to full width of the screen. Try that out.

Fancier TV will crop HD too. I am less familiar with that, because my TV shows HD one way only. Might help with History HD. Though I still think that if the HD is inferior, you are better off watching the SD.

brant · 10-12-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joekewl1971

Never seen 2.35:1 wide screen SD?? What have you seen?

The movie "The Illusionist" was on Starz Cinema (SCINE ch. 353 DN) in OAR last week; dish only has that channel in SD. I zoomed it up full and it came out 2.35:1 on a 16x9 screen. First and only time i've ever seen that on an SD channel.

joekewl1971 · 10-13-2008, 01:32 AM

I guess it makes more sense if you have dish, that you may not have seen letterbox. Possibly not as much opportunity. I remember letterbox laserdisc. I had DirecTV for many years, for a while with Tivo. They had something they referred to as Starz On Demand. Monday there would be 3 movies, and Tuesday, 2. It was a hidden channel, only for people with Tivo. The movies were supposed to magically appear. But they did not always get the timing right. I saw a lot of letterbox movies that way. Now I have Comcast cable with On Demand. Most of the new movies are available SD On Demand from Starz, both letterbox, and 4:3. Sadly, there is 1 version only of the HD movies. Scope HD movies are not letterbox, with notable exceptions. SD movies from Starz On Demand are also lacking 5.1. Pissed me off more before I got HD. If you watch Starz Cinema a lot, you will see more letterbox.

brant · 10-13-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joekewl1971

If you watch Starz Cinema a lot, you will see more letterbox.

. . . . .it wasn't the first time i've seen letterbox;

it was the only time i've seen 2.35:1 aspect ratio on an SD channel.

joekewl1971 · 10-13-2008, 12:28 PM

I thought you meant 4:3 letter box more generally.

08-27-2008, 08:17 PM	#1
spta97 How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 22	Aspect Ratio Rant I'm an HDTV newbie (two weeks) and have already been annoyed by aspect ratios on my HD programming. I have noticed the following: 1) Often commercials stretch a 4:3 into a 16:9 ratio. Sure I don't like commercials but it is just annoying to me that they won't spend the extra cash to redo them. I saw a Mercury commercial where the cars are stubby and the chick is fat (now). Arrg. 2) HD channels that use SD programming stretch the image as well. I appreciate the better quality, but why stretch it? 3) Why must you use 2.35:1 aspect ratio on TV shows? I'm not talking a movie, but a made for TV show. I have my 4:3 until Friday and I see TWO sets of horizontal black bars. I get that Bluray/DVD or movies that use 2.35.1 but what is the point on TV shows? 4) Black bars in general - I know the history behind the different aspect ratios, but why didn't TV makers and Hollywood go to a standard? I you really going to drag your butt to a movie just because they have a slightly higher ratio? 5) Lack of quality standard in picture quality - All HD is not made equal. The olympics looked fantastic, other channels (ie: TNT), not so much. That said, HD programming has ruined me for SD (on my large screen anyway).

09-04-2008, 01:57 PM	#4
18 is # 1 Overclocked at 4GHz Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Forney, TX Where Dallas ends and living begins. Posts: 1,569	Don't forget that this is an emerging technology. Those of us old enough to remember 8 tracks, cassettes, LPs, VCRs, and finally CDs and DVDs, also remember the periods of transitions, growing pains, and compatibility issues. To see the difference in program availability just in the last year is staggering. Be patient, we'll get there, but it may be a couple of more years. __________________ Turning Left ______________________ Marantz SR-7200 KEF Ci-200-3QS Wharfedale Sapphire CR Hsu Research VTF-2 MK 3 Subwoofer Blue Jeans Wire NHT IC3 Surround CE Labs Duel Phase Correct- -Surround Modulator Go Kyle Go Dish 622 DVR Oppo DV-970HD Samsung 46 LNB630 "People shouldn't fear their govenment. Governments should fear their people." - V

10-12-2008, 06:16 PM	#8
joekewl1971 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 612	Never seen 2.35:1 wide screen SD?? What have you seen? The 16:9 TV has a feature, most commonly referred to as zoom. The picture is cropped and blown up to full width of the screen. Try that out. Fancier TV will crop HD too. I am less familiar with that, because my TV shows HD one way only. Might help with History HD. Though I still think that if the HD is inferior, you are better off watching the SD. Last edited by joekewl1971; 10-12-2008 at 06:22 PM.

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08-27-2008, 08:42 PM	#2
joekewl1971 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 612	Welcome to HD forum. Get used to it. Life is not perfect. There is a lot to like about HD. I am sure you will find many enjoyable programs. If you hate stretch, find something else, or use SD. I like letterbox. I do not get it all the time. Aspect ratios are never perfect. Even 1.37:1 becomes 1.33:1. Cable is very convenient. I think HD is amazing. I have way more selection than I could possibly use, and more is on the way. Start off with happy thoughts.

09-02-2008, 06:31 AM	#3
spta97 How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 22	I have my new Mitsubishi 73" DLP hooked up and am really enjoying the HD programming. Luckilly, I am able to find enough to watch in 16:9 but I still get annoyed at the bars. I find that programmers are using black bars on for additional advertising so may be intentionally keeping the letterbox (with bars) format. I agree though, HD is something else - just wish they would standardize everything.

10-11-2008, 10:22 PM	#7
brant High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 80	i didn't like it at first, but you get used to it after awhile. when you say 2.35:1 on tv shows, i think what you're seeing is 16x9 inside a stretched 4x3 format. i mostly see this on the history channel. if you look at the SD version, its 16x9 inside a 4x3 w/ horizontal bars. on the HD version, they just stretch that and it looks like 2.35:1. That is actually pretty annoying. something interesting i saw the other day on starz cinema (i think that's what its called); i get that channel in SD only and they actually had 2:35:1 OAR in SD 4x3. it made for a very short (vertical) picture. That's the first time i've ever seen that.

10-13-2008, 01:32 AM	#10
joekewl1971 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 612	I guess it makes more sense if you have dish, that you may not have seen letterbox. Possibly not as much opportunity. I remember letterbox laserdisc. I had DirecTV for many years, for a while with Tivo. They had something they referred to as Starz On Demand. Monday there would be 3 movies, and Tuesday, 2. It was a hidden channel, only for people with Tivo. The movies were supposed to magically appear. But they did not always get the timing right. I saw a lot of letterbox movies that way. Now I have Comcast cable with On Demand. Most of the new movies are available SD On Demand from Starz, both letterbox, and 4:3. Sadly, there is 1 version only of the HD movies. Scope HD movies are not letterbox, with notable exceptions. SD movies from Starz On Demand are also lacking 5.1. Pissed me off more before I got HD. If you watch Starz Cinema a lot, you will see more letterbox.

10-13-2008, 12:28 PM	#12
joekewl1971 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 612	I thought you meant 4:3 letter box more generally.