CBS HD vs ABC HD?

CPR · 02-23-2011, 08:29 AM

Ok; I'm in NYC/Cablevision/I.O. digital
Both Fox and CBS are phenomenal!
Football, on CBS, is the clearest picture, I've seen; camera angles, are not as close up as Fox.
I actually credit the CBS/PQ, to my AMAZING Sony KDL 40XBR9/240hz.
The motion blur is almost non-existant
Also, the CBS Morning show/7AM, is so clear, it's almost life-like
Fox Sports has better camera angles, & close-ups, but the 720p, isn't quite as sharp; both channels are superb
One complaint: For some reason the Fox5 News shows, are not as sharp as their sports programs. wonder if they're using inferior cameras for News shows

smitbret · 02-26-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwatkins

I agree, CBS has the best PQ for football. I don't watch much baseball, but the PQ on TBS's playoff baseball coverage is the best looking baseball I've seen. I don't know what it is about ABC and ESPN, but football games have by far the worst looking PQ on those networks.

Gonna have to disagree with this. CBS has by far the sharpest picture of any network that broadcasts college football, but the motion blur and blocking during action on any CBS broadcast is very distracting to me. It's great for the big stadium and crowd shots but doesn't translate as well to the actual game. When the shot is a wide field shot it's pretty good. Pass plays look better on CBS, but a dive up the gut is better on ESPN. ABC and NBC never look as good, regardless. I'm not a big NFLer, so I can't speak for Fox, but I prefer most ESPN broadcasts to anything the other big three are putting out. However, ESPN games are highly dependent on who's playing; the PQ difference of the Central Michigan/Akron game vs. the Miami/Florida St is astronomical. I think when you are covering and potentially broadcasting 12-14 games (Three networks @ 2-3-4 games per day) on any given Saturday, equipment supplies get thin. I don't know of any Saturday when the big networks have more than 4-5 games to cover between the regional broadcasts; maybe a sixth if there's a late evening tilt.

I hardly think that the quality difference is Sony vs. Canon since Sony Canon is the largest manufcaturer of photo grade optics and Sony outsources it's optical manufacturing (at least they used to). Sony does make their own sensors, but check with sports photographers to see whether they're shooting Sony or Canon.

**rbinck** · 02-27-2011, 05:51 PM

There is another factor to throw in here when it comes to motion blur and that is over-compression. Our FOX channel at 720p is better on this score than our other network stations. Most of this is due to the operation of sub-channels that cut away from the 19mbps available to the point that during fast motion you get macroblocking. It also occurs for any fast changes in the picture. I have a lot more on this here: When Is HDTV Going to Catch Up?

One year our CBS station turned off their sub-channels during the NFL playoffs and the picture was superb, so I feel between the camera blur and macroblocking in the source it what contributes to motion picture quality more than anything else. And that includes the difference between LCD and plasma technology.

I read somewhere that some of the cable networks like ESPN have a minimum bandwidth requirements for the cable operators. That may explain why ESPN tends to look better than broadcast networks.

jmwatkins · 02-28-2011, 02:04 PM

Maybe it's a Dish network problem, but IMO ESPN is one of the worst looking channels I get. I will say that Sportcenter looks pretty good most of the time. But, I have never seen a sporting event on ESPN where I said "Wow, that looks incredible!" I hate when the Packers play on MNF because it's worse than watching them on Fox, which I'm also not a fan of.

**rbinck** · 02-28-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwatkins

Maybe it's a Dish network problem, but IMO ESPN is one of the worst looking channels I get. I will say that Sportcenter looks pretty good most of the time. But, I have never seen a sporting event on ESPN where I said "Wow, that looks incredible!" I hate when the Packers play on MNF because it's worse than watching them on Fox, which I'm also not a fan of.

Maybe, because ESPN and FOX are some of the best on my U-verse service. Now your FOX could be due to sub-channels. Even though you have Dish they still get the local FOX feed.

jmwatkins · 02-28-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbinck

Maybe, because ESPN and FOX are some of the best on my U-verse service. Now your FOX could be due to sub-channels. Even though you have Dish they still get the local FOX feed.

My Fox local doesn't have any sub channels, but they don't have a very good reputation. I don't have a problem with Fox's PQ on normal programming, though I don't watch much on Fox. My biggest problem is the PQ of their football and baseball, but both are better than any sporting event on ESPN and ABC. I also receive Fox and ABC on my antenna. Neither are any better OTA. Just my opinion with the setup and service I have.

**ImRizzo** · 02-28-2011, 04:37 PM

The FOX network in NY is stunning in PQ ?

**rbinck** · 02-28-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwatkins

My Fox local doesn't have any sub channels, but they don't have a very good reputation. I don't have a problem with Fox's PQ on normal programming, though I don't watch much on Fox. My biggest problem is the PQ of their football and baseball, but both are better than any sporting event on ESPN and ABC. I also receive Fox and ABC on my antenna. Neither are any better OTA. Just my opinion with the setup and service I have.

Our FOX station started out broadcasting in EDTV (740x480p) before they switched to 720p HD. Maybe yours never switched from EDTV.

goodnews · 03-16-2011, 11:51 PM

Criminal Minds looks awesome. Skin tones are great, and the blacks are wonderful! The other day during the Presidential press conference, I switched back and forth, comparing CBS, NBC, and ABC. CBS had, by far, the best picture of the three. I also compared CNN, which was actually even better than CBS!

mckendre · 10-05-2011, 10:04 PM

I am no expert but we just put up a antenna after 20+ years of satallite only TV and we are amazed at the picture quality. During a broadcast of a season five episode of Criminal minds on a OTA local station we put all our media to the test. Watching the same episode OTA, on DVD, Blue Ray, HDDVR- Dishnet, we switched back an forth. As I said we were amazed. Stunned may be more accurate as the OTA picture was clearly better than the others. The Blur ray was close but the other lagged far behind. We couldn’t compare cable at this time because we haven't had that for 25 years but I do know when we installed satellite a my daughter's place it blew away the picture she was getting from her Cox cable so called HD. After see our reception OTA, she is now thinking of trashing her dish just as we are.

Hope this helps.

One last thought on this. I wont miss paying the $100+ MO. DishNet bill anymore, or the $100 for that matter because it will still be in my pocket.

rantanamo · 10-06-2011, 02:14 AM

The reason I mentioned 1080p sets earlier in this thread is because its often forgotten that the HDTV broadcast standard is 1080i/720p. The content was created to be seen on 1080i and 720p sets where all full or decent power OTA stations looked excellent. Then the TV manufacturers wanted to push blu-ray so then came the 1080p sets. Now your TV content has to be upconverted or de-interlaced. Basically a fancified version of zooming your YOUTUBE videos to full screen(not as dramatic and with a processor to help it look better). Thankfully the quality of upconversion continues to increase, but especially earlier 1080p sets weren't that good at it. De-interlacing 1080i content works much better as its basically putting the two fields together. Still, its not full 1080p.

In other words, 720p looks fantastic on 720p sets. Not surprisingly, it suffers on a higher resolution set. There's another problem arising as well. As many cable companies add HD channels, they are really having to dial down the bandwidth per channel. Of course, 720p is the first sufferer. Not surprising that when sports threads are started on other boards, there's always a complaint about Fox or the ESPNs. I had this problem with Time Warner, but when I changed to FiOS, the 720p channels look great, as FiOS does not compress channel bandwidth.

02-27-2011, 05:51 PM	#18
rbinck Administrator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Katy, Texas Posts: 15,598	There is another factor to throw in here when it comes to motion blur and that is over-compression. Our FOX channel at 720p is better on this score than our other network stations. Most of this is due to the operation of sub-channels that cut away from the 19mbps available to the point that during fast motion you get macroblocking. It also occurs for any fast changes in the picture. I have a lot more on this here: When Is HDTV Going to Catch Up? One year our CBS station turned off their sub-channels during the NFL playoffs and the picture was superb, so I feel between the camera blur and macroblocking in the source it what contributes to motion picture quality more than anything else. And that includes the difference between LCD and plasma technology. I read somewhere that some of the cable networks like ESPN have a minimum bandwidth requirements for the cable operators. That may explain why ESPN tends to look better than broadcast networks. __________________ www.highdefinitionblog.com www.BlogOfHawaii.com

02-28-2011, 02:04 PM	#19
jmwatkins Fur sure. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,156	Maybe it's a Dish network problem, but IMO ESPN is one of the worst looking channels I get. I will say that Sportcenter looks pretty good most of the time. But, I have never seen a sporting event on ESPN where I said "Wow, that looks incredible!" I hate when the Packers play on MNF because it's worse than watching them on Fox, which I'm also not a fan of. __________________ Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge - Asus GTX 670 DirectCU II TOP Steam ID - jmwatkins1

02-28-2011, 04:37 PM	#22
ImRizzo HDF SUPER MODERATOR Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Formerly: Brooklyn, New York .... It's not a place, it's an Attitude and a State of Mind !! Posts: 19,028	The FOX network in NY is stunning in PQ ? __________________ ..................................... PFC5 & Loves2Watch ~ RIP

10-05-2011, 10:04 PM	#25
mckendre What is HD? Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1	If Picture quality is the thing, and it is, ditch sat and cable and go back to OTA TV I am no expert but we just put up a antenna after 20+ years of satallite only TV and we are amazed at the picture quality. During a broadcast of a season five episode of Criminal minds on a OTA local station we put all our media to the test. Watching the same episode OTA, on DVD, Blue Ray, HDDVR- Dishnet, we switched back an forth. As I said we were amazed. Stunned may be more accurate as the OTA picture was clearly better than the others. The Blur ray was close but the other lagged far behind. We couldn’t compare cable at this time because we haven't had that for 25 years but I do know when we installed satellite a my daughter's place it blew away the picture she was getting from her Cox cable so called HD. After see our reception OTA, she is now thinking of trashing her dish just as we are. Hope this helps. One last thought on this. I wont miss paying the $100+ MO. DishNet bill anymore, or the $100 for that matter because it will still be in my pocket.

Similar Threads to CBS HD vs ABC HD?
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
More Comcast HD... Finally	vmann31	Cable Providers	119	11-20-2008 07:33 AM
Indoor antenna vs cable signal	dawgfan	Local HDTV Info and Reception	16	05-07-2008 10:12 PM
CBS HD vs ABC HD college FB broadcast.	kryptonian	The High Definition Lounge	9	11-25-2007 11:11 PM
FIOS HDTV VS Comcast HDTV	Mineo1983	Verizon FiOS	83	11-02-2007 04:13 PM
rbinck - Blockiness artifacts - Two more questions	slowmo	The High Definition Lounge	6	01-16-2006 10:15 AM
how 2 get ABC HD in time	throwback559	DirecTV Forum	10	12-13-2005 07:10 PM
TX vs OU	definition05	DirecTV Forum	12	10-05-2005 05:15 AM

02-23-2011, 08:29 AM	#16
CPR High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 95	Ok; I'm in NYC/Cablevision/I.O. digital Both Fox and CBS are phenomenal! Football, on CBS, is the clearest picture, I've seen; camera angles, are not as close up as Fox. I actually credit the CBS/PQ, to my AMAZING Sony KDL 40XBR9/240hz. The motion blur is almost non-existant Also, the CBS Morning show/7AM, is so clear, it's almost life-like Fox Sports has better camera angles, & close-ups, but the 720p, isn't quite as sharp; both channels are superb One complaint: For some reason the Fox5 News shows, are not as sharp as their sports programs. wonder if they're using inferior cameras for News shows

03-16-2011, 11:51 PM	#24
goodnews How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 18	Criminal Minds looks awesome. Skin tones are great, and the blacks are wonderful! The other day during the Presidential press conference, I switched back and forth, comparing CBS, NBC, and ABC. CBS had, by far, the best picture of the three. I also compared CNN, which was actually even better than CBS!

10-06-2011, 02:14 AM	#26
rantanamo High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 153	The reason I mentioned 1080p sets earlier in this thread is because its often forgotten that the HDTV broadcast standard is 1080i/720p. The content was created to be seen on 1080i and 720p sets where all full or decent power OTA stations looked excellent. Then the TV manufacturers wanted to push blu-ray so then came the 1080p sets. Now your TV content has to be upconverted or de-interlaced. Basically a fancified version of zooming your YOUTUBE videos to full screen(not as dramatic and with a processor to help it look better). Thankfully the quality of upconversion continues to increase, but especially earlier 1080p sets weren't that good at it. De-interlacing 1080i content works much better as its basically putting the two fields together. Still, its not full 1080p. In other words, 720p looks fantastic on 720p sets. Not surprisingly, it suffers on a higher resolution set. There's another problem arising as well. As many cable companies add HD channels, they are really having to dial down the bandwidth per channel. Of course, 720p is the first sufferer. Not surprising that when sports threads are started on other boards, there's always a complaint about Fox or the ESPNs. I had this problem with Time Warner, but when I changed to FiOS, the 720p channels look great, as FiOS does not compress channel bandwidth.