Blu About The Slow Release of Classic Titles On Blu-ray? Take Heart!

hatt · 02-18-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

Certainly some degree of cleanup/restoration is necessary, but where do you draw the line, depending on the title? How much should be spent on lesser known classics such as The Big Sleep or 42nd Street? WB has already got these looking good on DVD and I don't see why they need to throw that work away and start from scratch in most cases. BCI released a couple of Bob Hope double features and they're not completely restored either, but they look a heck of a lot better than the DVD.

What I'm saying is that sure the top classics should look as perfect as possible, but most of these classics are very old 1.33:1 movies that can really never look 'perfect' just because they're so old and the restoration expense will never be worth the money they'll make on sales.

I think this guy is talking out of his a little too much, like he expects WB to just give him 500k per movie for restoration and he'll poke around with them and put out 30 per year or some other ridiculously low number. These are fucking OLD movies for crying out loud, they not supposed to look perfect. The amount of prep money spent on them should be proportional to the importance and projected sales of the titles themselves.

It looks like we agree on this subject.

I think the line should be set at, "Is it without a doubt the best home presentation ever?" Or something like that. If it can meet that criteria, I think it is good to go for a BD release.

**bruceames** · 02-18-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatt

It looks like we agree on this subject.

I think the line should be set at, "Is it without a doubt the best home presentation ever?" Or something like that. If it can meet that criteria, I think it is good to go for a BD release.

There is no such thing. They can always improve upon an old print if they throw enough money at it. You think the current BD releases will be the definitive versions for all time? A high percentage of DVD releases were subsequently rereleased with better transfers, and the same will happen with BD and the format that follows it.

Regarding restoration costs, at some point you arrive at the law of diminishing returns, and depending on the movie, that's where you draw the line. The studios only have so much money to throw at these old movies, for historical purposes. How many times have they restored Gone with the Wind?

What I'm concerned about is grain-scrubbing DNR. WB is notorious for it and although their prints may look the cleanest, we may see superior releases from lesser distributors like Anchor Bay and Criterion who spend far less money and leave the film elements alone.

hatt · 02-18-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

There is no such thing. They can always improve upon an old print if they throw enough money at it. At some point you arrive at the law of diminishing returns, and depending on the movie, that's where you draw the line.

I think you missed what I was saying or I wasn't clear, just add my theory to your post. If they can put a reasonable effort in and get something that looks great, maybe not perfect, it would be worthwhile on Blu.

Quote:

What I'm concerned about is grain-scrubbing DNR. WB is notorious for it and although their prints may look the cleanest, we may see superior releases from lesser distributors like Anchor Bay and Criterion who spend far less money and leave the film elements alone.

Unfortunately, most people want all movies to look like Cars. This will only get worst I'd guess as J6P moves more to BD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

There is no such thing. They can always improve upon an old print if they throw enough money at it. You think the current BD releases will be the definitive versions for all time? A high percentage of DVD releases were subsequently rereleased with better transfers, and the same will happen with BD and the format that follows it.

I never said any BD will be the definitive version for all time. Just trying to figure out what makes sense now.

**bruceames** · 02-18-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatt

I think you missed what I was saying or I wasn't clear, just add my theory to your post. If they can put a reasonable effort in and get something that looks great, maybe not perfect, it would be worthwhile on Blu.

Unfortunately, most people want all movies to look like Cars. This will only get worst I'd guess as J6P moves more to BD.

I never said any BD will be the definitive version for all time. Just trying to figure out what makes sense now.

I agree 100% with all this. I think WB is worried the grain will freak people out and will be increasingly dumbing down the detail level for the masses to get that 'sleek' look. I trust Criterion will not follow this path and perhaps will get 2 versions of the same movie, to cater to enthusiasts and purists, and everyone else.

dkrauss · 02-19-2009, 05:16 PM

High-Def Digest has posted a clarification to this story regarding high-def audio on Warner classic releases.

Here's the updated paragraph:

"Sound issues have also drawn ire from many consumers hungry for high-def audio on Golden Age films. Some have complained about the lack of a Dolby TrueHD track on 'Casablanca' and the upcoming 'An American in Paris.' Both 'Casablanca' and 'An American in Paris' were recorded in mono, so monaural tracks were used on their respective Blu-ray discs to preserve each film's authenticity. However, Mr. Feltenstein has noted that from this point forward, Warner Home Video intends to release all catalog titles with TrueHD tracks. When original multiple channel recordings are available, the studio may produce newer, multitrack audio mixes, but whether or not the films have multitrack audio elements, the studio believes each release deserves the absolute best audio possible and will provide it in TrueHD."

vikingfan · 02-19-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

I agree 100% with all this. I think WB is worried the grain will freak people out and will be increasingly dumbing down the detail level for the masses to get that 'sleek' look. I trust Criterion will not follow this path and perhaps will get 2 versions of the same movie, to cater to enthusiasts and purists, and everyone else.

And people who think what the XDE does to dvd's is good would be in which category?

**bruceames** · 02-19-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingfan

And people who think what the XDE does to dvd's is good would be in which category?

I don't notice excessive edge enhancement nor any loss of detail on the XDE, so you tell me.

vikingfan · 02-20-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

I don't notice excessive edge enhancement nor any loss of detail on the XDE, so you tell me.

Then you're not in the "purist" category, you'd be "everyone else".

PFC5 · 02-20-2009, 12:43 AM

The purist has to have a 35mm projector and also a 70mm projector IMO to truly be a "purist". Anything else alters the theater look & feel.

BTW, I am not a purist either. I cannot afford to be.

**bruceames** · 02-20-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingfan

Then you're not in the "purist" category, you'd be "everyone else".

Not everyone fits neatly into a single category. Besides, DVD and HD have different needs when watched on an HDTV. Blu-ray doesn't need any 'help', because it's already 1080p, just like the HDTV is. Upscaled DVD is already enhanced and processed, any good upscaler will do that. The XDE just does a better job of it. Since DVD is not HD, to watch it on an HDTV, especially intermixing HD and SD viewings, you kinda have to accept some enhancements, unless of course you prefer to watch DVDs in 480p.

**bruceames** · 02-20-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

The purist has to have a 35mm projector and also a 70mm projector IMO to truly be a "purist". Anything else alters the theater look & feel.

BTW, I am not a purist either. I cannot afford to be.

I can't either. But I can afford to be an enthusiast at least.

DonnyDC · 02-20-2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

Certainly some degree of cleanup/restoration is necessary, but where do you draw the line, depending on the title?

Heres the line right here.
- Does it look good enough so that people dont go 'this doesnt look that much better than the DVD.'

Lets take a NEW example for instance, the 5th Element. Looked amazing on DVD so they decided to reuse the same master for BD. It looked so bad they basically had a recall, how often does that happen? Now 5th element is a relatively new movie, imagine what would need to be done for anything before the 90's...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Sure - and they create HD masters for CST of movies that are not available on HDM yet.

Whats CST? Is this something the studio are directly involved in?

Chris Gerhard · 02-20-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

How many copies of Casablanca sold on BD?

How many copies of Close Encounters sold on BD?

I don't know although I suspect sales were disappointing. I have both of those on HDM, one is an HD DVD. These classic titles need a much larger player base to justify the expense of the release so the next couple of years are likely going to be a lot like the last couple of years, each studio will only release a few but a few really good ones will help sell players which will help sell more classic titles. I can't imagine PS3 owners buy many of these. I like the classic films but I won't complain about a lack of releases since I understand these titles don't sell well right now. I haven't played either of these two yet but I have played "The Adventures of Robin Hood" and it was superb. Everytime I give my girlfriend the option of watching "Casablanca" or something else, she picks something else. Slow unexciting science fiction is of no interest to her so I won't ever offer Encounters as a choice and just watch that one without her. She did watch the original "Planet of the Apes" with me and tolerated it, but not much more.

There are several great films coming to Blu-ray soon so things are getting better.

Chris

DonnyDC · 02-20-2009, 01:35 PM

Heres what Disney said about Sleeping Beauty.

Quote:

BPBS: And, that being the case, I would guess that any Disney Classics would have to undergo extensive restoration to reach your Blu-ray standards?

BC: Oh, yeah, I mean, we already did extensive restoration on DVD, and we thought that would be forever. And now with Blu-ray, it's not. Because the critical nature of it becomes even higher. So we spend quite a bit of resources--money, time, effort--trying to restore these things, and I think Blu-ray on Sleeping Beauty is just the beginning of what we're going to be able to do, not only from a restoration standpoint but from an interactivity and connectivity standpoint with Disney BD-Live.

Lee Stewart · 02-20-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

Heres what Disney said about Sleeping Beauty.

Here are the DVD sales for the new version of this movie:

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/1959/0SLBY-DVD.php

How about coming up with the sales for the BD version.

02-20-2009, 12:43 AM	#69
PFC5 Former Super Moderator - RIP Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 38,295	The purist has to have a 35mm projector and also a 70mm projector IMO to truly be a "purist". Anything else alters the theater look & feel. BTW, I am not a purist either. I cannot afford to be. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier PSN: PFC5

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02-19-2009, 05:16 PM	#65
dkrauss What is HD? Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1	High-Def Digest has posted a clarification to this story regarding high-def audio on Warner classic releases. Here's the updated paragraph: "Sound issues have also drawn ire from many consumers hungry for high-def audio on Golden Age films. Some have complained about the lack of a Dolby TrueHD track on 'Casablanca' and the upcoming 'An American in Paris.' Both 'Casablanca' and 'An American in Paris' were recorded in mono, so monaural tracks were used on their respective Blu-ray discs to preserve each film's authenticity. However, Mr. Feltenstein has noted that from this point forward, Warner Home Video intends to release all catalog titles with TrueHD tracks. When original multiple channel recordings are available, the studio may produce newer, multitrack audio mixes, but whether or not the films have multitrack audio elements, the studio believes each release deserves the absolute best audio possible and will provide it in TrueHD."