The Dark Knight Blu-ray disc leaking out, complaints already rolling in

Lee Stewart · 11-25-2008, 08:39 AM

I wonder if some of these DNR/EE issues is really Color Banding.

11-25-2008, 08:43 AM

Some of the ringing is already baked into the original film. According to pentonman, especially the IMAX parts were sharpened for the theatrical release.

Lee Stewart · 11-25-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikopol

Some of the ringing is already baked into the original film. According to pentonman, especially the IMAX parts were sharpened for the theatrical release.

How do you sharpen IMAX film? It is supposedly 18K. That resolution is way beyond what anyone can work with.

Delivering 8K VFX Shots for The Dark Knight

http://www.studiodaily.com/filmandvi...ssue/9703.html

11-25-2008, 09:00 AM

Just re-read that post and i was mistaken.

He said:

Quote:

Like I said, I only have superficial knowledge of The Dark Knight’s post production based upon one seminar from last summer and my recollection isn’t that great to begin with as it was only about 105 - 110 degrees outside that day on the Uni backlot and I spent much of the time listening while hydrating myself with bottled water because I had been sweating like a pig prior to going inside the building.

I know nothing of the Blu-ray encoding/authoring of the title; however, sharpening was definitely applied during the process for the production of the IMAX theatrical presentation, and if they used that material as a source to strike that HD master, rather than doing a totally new scan on the final 35mm element, then the sharpening is baked into the process and people sensitive to the appearance just have to live with it.

People have to get into their heads that 99% of the time, filmmakers make films for the BIG screen (as in commercial theater), not for enthusiasts’ home theaters. When something like a little sharpening is applied during the post production, the filmmakers do it because they realize that the vast, vast majority of theater goers will not notice its detrimental effects, and will not be QCing their work by staring at the outlines of people and structures hunting for halos while watching the darn movie. A little sharpening may not technically give increased resolution to the motion picture but, its appearance certainly gives that perception to 99.9 % of movie watchers, which is one reason why it was added to Journey to the Center of the Earth, as I commented on the last page.

The same situation applies to adding grain in post. It doesn’t per se result in increased resolution to the motion picture but, its appearance likewise gives that perception to the vast majority of movie watchers as evidenced by experiments with stocastic resonance which demonstrate by in large that optimal human satisfaction with visual imagery occurs when the grain/noise level is intermediate. By that I mean, too little grain/noise and the signal doesn't reach the neural (as in brain) threshold, too much and the signal will be swamped by noise. The noise-benefit relationship is therefore shaped like an inverted U.

BD.com thread #331555 post #6197

He was talking about preparing the 35mm parts for the IMAX presentation, where according to him sharpening was applied to the 35mm material. I only remembered the IMAX part....

This would make sense and could explain the "halos", if his assumption is correct.

11-25-2008, 09:28 AM

a little reading for those interested:

The Dark Knight shot by Wally Pfister, ASC, combines 35mm and Imax 65mm to depict the Cape Crusader’s latest adventure.
http://www.theasc.com/magazine_dynam...ight/page1.php

**bruceames** · 11-25-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

I can understand some of the frustration. Band Of Brothers on Blu-Ray has light DNR applied. The same title on HD DVD (Japanese Import) does not have DNR applied. IMHO, I think the HD DVD version of the screencaps I have seen look better. But the HD DVD version is $200 and the BD version was $41. I picked up the BD version. I am not sure why Warner/HBO applied slight DNR to BoB on BD. It really did not need it as the show was supposed to have a gritty grainy look to it per the intent of the directors (Hanks and Spielberg). But it is slight. And to cancel your order and trash the encode is just over the top IMHO. The BD is clearly a step up over the DVD and cable/sat broadcasts I have seen. So while I can understand the pickiness and frustrations, I think some people are taking it way to far. I mean where do you go? Back to DVD? Stop watching movies altogether? Perhaps when we have affordable 4K projectors and movie players we will get closer to "perfection", but I cannot imagine watching the DVD version of TDK, BoB, Baraka, etc if I owned a BD player.

True, BoB HD DVD was $200 before the BD version came out, but I'll bet an ebay auction would fetch $300-$400 easily. It's been OOP for a year and it seems HD DVD owners now want to hang on to their set. Although it's only slightly better in PQ, I do notice detail missing on the BD (mainly in facial closeups) due to DNR and the overall gritty look of the HD DVD is missing (or greatly diminished) on the BD. However even though I own the HD DVD, I still found the BD a worthwhile purchase (it's a LOT cheaper than I thought it would be) because of the extras and the Spanish subs.

I agree some people are taking it too far, especially those who have projectors and watch up close, but if it bothers them, then I guess they have a right to complain. Personally I want as much detail as possible and if DNR removes some of it, then I'd rather not know about it and just enjoy the movie. I've never been distracted by excessive EE but I guess that's because I don't have a large display (50" plasma from 8 feet).

GLOW · 11-25-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy X

I'm surprised that no one has yet jumped in to complain about the use of VC-1.

I will complain right now. VC-1 was never fully optimized for Blu-ray- there are no key frames in a VC-1 encoded BD. This means one of the 3 predictions from one frame to the next isn't present. I'm sure none of you will notice that but my eyes and brain see at 20,000,000 fps so I notice.

Stew4HD · 11-25-2008, 10:39 AM

Damn, now I have to cancel my pre-order!! I won't be able to sit down and enjoy this move knowing that these problems exist. Especially knowing they are using VC-1! OMG, such a travesty!

HD Goofnut · 11-25-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Damn, now I have to cancel my pre-order!! I won't be able to sit down and enjoy this move knowing that these problems exist. Especially knowing they are using VC-1! OMG, such a travesty!

You beat me to it Stew.

DonnyDC · 11-25-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikopol

Just re-read that post and i was mistaken.

He said:

BD.com thread #331555 post #6197

He was talking about preparing the 35mm parts for the IMAX presentation, where according to him sharpening was applied to the 35mm material. I only remembered the IMAX part....

This would make sense and could explain the "halos", if his assumption is correct.

Didnt notice it myself but there are some people in the avs thread who recall seeing halos in the Imax version.

**bruceames** · 11-25-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Damn, now I have to cancel my pre-order!! I won't be able to sit down and enjoy this move knowing that these problems exist. Especially knowing they are using VC-1! OMG, such a travesty!

You're right, that must be it....wth, using an obsolete HD DVD codec?!

Stew4HD · 11-25-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceames

You're right, that must be it....wth, using an obsolete HD DVD codec?!

It'll never work! It's DOOMED to failure! VC-1 caused HD DVD's failure and now BD is using it?

Rut ro, Raggy!

FUD? What FUD?

Lee Stewart · 11-25-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikopol

a little reading for those interested:

The Dark Knight shot by Wally Pfister, ASC, combines 35mm and Imax 65mm to depict the Cape Crusader’s latest adventure.
http://www.theasc.com/magazine_dynam...ight/page1.php

Thanks for the article - nice read.

MikeRox · 11-25-2008, 11:39 AM

It's clear this title was made for HD DVD ready for release before it hit cinemas. Then the BDA caught wind of this and threw millions at Warner not to release it exclusively on HD DVD before it came out in cinemas.

It's now official that WB were going HD DVD exclusive and those evil BDA suits BOUGHT THEM OUT!!!!!!! PLEASE BOYCOTT BLU RAY FOR THE SAKE OF CONSUMERS EVERYWHERE!

Stew4HD · 11-25-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

It's clear this title was made for HD DVD ready for release before it hit cinemas. Then the BDA caught wind of this and threw millions at Warner not to release it exclusively on HD DVD before it came out in cinemas.

It's now official that WB were going HD DVD exclusive and those evil BDA suits BOUGHT THEM OUT!!!!!!! PLEASE BOYCOTT BLU RAY FOR THE SAKE OF CONSUMERS EVERYWHERE!

Die, Sony, DIE! I'll boycott them one day!

11-25-2008, 11:39 AM	#44
MikeRox Connoisseur of Fine Games Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 15,756	It's clear this title was made for HD DVD ready for release before it hit cinemas. Then the BDA caught wind of this and threw millions at Warner not to release it exclusively on HD DVD before it came out in cinemas. It's now official that WB were going HD DVD exclusive and those evil BDA suits BOUGHT THEM OUT!!!!!!! PLEASE BOYCOTT BLU RAY FOR THE SAKE OF CONSUMERS EVERYWHERE! __________________ Currently Playing: Xenoblade Chronicles, Ridge Racer 3D, DIRT 3

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11-25-2008, 08:39 AM	#31
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	I wonder if some of these DNR/EE issues is really Color Banding.

11-25-2008, 08:43 AM	#32
Nikopol Guest Posts: n/a	Some of the ringing is already baked into the original film. According to pentonman, especially the IMAX parts were sharpened for the theatrical release.

11-25-2008, 09:28 AM	#35
Nikopol Guest Posts: n/a	a little reading for those interested: The Dark Knight shot by Wally Pfister, ASC, combines 35mm and Imax 65mm to depict the Cape Crusader’s latest adventure. http://www.theasc.com/magazine_dynam...ight/page1.php

11-25-2008, 10:39 AM	#38
Stew4HD SD HURTS MY EYES Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tejas Baby Posts: 9,989	Damn, now I have to cancel my pre-order!! I won't be able to sit down and enjoy this move knowing that these problems exist. Especially knowing they are using VC-1! OMG, such a travesty!