Warner Home Video Prez: “We think this is a do-or-die time for Blu-ray”

**kamspy** · 11-22-2008, 02:32 PM

Also, as Niko pointed out:

These articles are meaningless. The positive and the negative.

No one but enthusiasts even read them. Funny how people think there is so much spin happening if it's a positive article, and yet it has to be dead bang serious if it even hints at something negative.

But that's become the culture of our HDM subforum.

At least we get some good deals found threads and some nice long running community ones.

These discussions are crap IMHO.

The HDM crowd has actually sunken below the gaming subforum crowd in terms of pettiness. That's no easy task.

**PFC5** · 11-22-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

No - that would never happen.

Funny how this type of "interpretation" always comes from the losing side, no? I mean, between brianh, mikemorel and 85mics - you would think the world ended on 1/4/08. Now some of them seem to actively desire the death of ALL HDM. So, I ask you - who is worse, the "blu zealot" that merely wants people to enjoy bluray, or the people like mikemorel - that want HDM as we know it to DIE? WHich type of person is more beneficial to our little hobby here?

What PFC doesn't seem to understand is certain people intentionally stoke the fire. He seems to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. And certain people - like mikemorel and Deadmeat - do not deserve such treatment. Based on THEIR OWN behaviour over time.

What you fail to see is that BOTH "sides" seem to have their own interpretation of the same statement or event. It seems really crazy to me that there are even "sides' still since the war is long over.

No question certain people would rather have BD die than be successful because then I guess they would feel that despite their format of choice losing they would feel vindicated that the winning format also lost in the end so they were "correct" (in their eyes) that BD should not have won.

By the same token, there are people HERE who always try to avoid talking about the remaining issues, and they always seem to try to put a positive spin on everything also. I think neither are the best way to move forward myself.

What I DO realize is I DO try to give people the benefit of the doubt including all new members and when people were saying you followed certain members here to continue the fight, I let your posts stand on their own here and gave YOU and a couple others the benefit of the doubt also. How else should it be done? WHO should make that decision?

Nikopol · 11-22-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

So WHICH thread about the same thing, people comment in matters more than what was actually said?

I think what was said was bad myself and is some cause for worry to me. I want BD to thrive, but when the content providers start making public comments like this, I think it is cause for concern. I think ANYONE who wants BD to thrive should also have some concern, but hey, if people do not care about the problems then IF the format ends up struggling who is really to blame? The people who complain or the people who ignore the complaints and act like everything is fine when it isn't?

What do you think about the good things that were said in the same article?

No one wants you stop worrying. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Btw as is my opinion to think, that the format is actually doing better than i would have expected it to do last year at this time in 2008 btw. It just had the second best week in sales ever during a raging recession, that has everyone frightened. And that is what successful formats do, they grow even when times are tough and common sense would lead one to believe and expect otherwise. So excuse me, if i don't share the pessimism.

Let's get back to what this is actually about. The complaints are not about the contents of the article. If you think they are so troubling, why didn't the first thread about the same article cause such a long reaction of several pages of bickering? I'll answer this for you: because the first thread wasn't cut out to be flamebait thread like this one. And what a successful flamebait this is, just look at how long it is.

We have come a long way here at HDF. Former combatants from both sides have almost learned to live with each other peacefully, i will not call out any names. Then once in a while we get some active smackdown combatants from other forums, who start their sh!t tactics here. And you know what: this would without a doubt lead to more re-enactments of the format war. And i don't want that and that is why this thread is bothering me.

That exec's say funny things, i couldn't care less about. Sorry.

/End of rant

Bravestime · 11-22-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

So WHICH thread about the same thing, people comment in matters more than what was actually said?

I think what was said was bad myself and is some cause for worry to me. I want BD to thrive, but when the content providers start making public comments like this, I think it is cause for concern. I think ANYONE who wants BD to thrive should also have some concern...

I have some concern when studios make such comments. It's hard to believe that they would even consider dumping the HD format after a year totally backing one format. That's why I feel there is more to that statement than what we actually read.

Quote:

but hey, if people do not care about the problems then IF the format ends up struggling who is really to blame? The people who complain or the people who ignore the complaints and act like everything is fine when it isn't?

Now that sounds a bit harsh! Do you honestly think that complaining day after day will change anything? NO, The reason is the only thing corporations understand and take stock in is revenue. If a item produces profit and is growing then that is what they understand. A handful of belly achers are not going to change anything.

To actually "Blame" people for not complaining as the reason BD is struggling is placing guilt where it doesn't belong. Action speaks louder than words.

The best action is not to buy the BD movies/players, if you disagree and have issues.

ack_bak · 11-22-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louigi222

This is what he was directly quoted as saying:

Now you Blu-ray format crusaders can stick your head in the sand and interpret this quote anyway you want but its meaning to me is unmistakable.

Nobody is sticking their head in the sand. I think many of us have concerns about trying to grow a young format right now in the current economy. Especially a format that costs more money than the format it is supposed to replace. But the article is focusing on DVD sales sagging and if you take the comments from the studios regarding Blu-Ray with that context in mind it makes sense.

And I see you keep avoiding the comments by Universal. So who is burying their head in the sand now

Bravestime · 11-22-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

By the same token, there are people HERE who always try to avoid talking about the remaining issues, and they always seem to try to put a positive spin on everything also. I think neither are the best way to move forward myself.

Bringing up positive and negative issues concerning BD makes for a healthy discussion. However, there are some that continue bringing these negative issues up constantly when it serves no purpose. Constantly bringing up negative issues only appears to be slamming BDA. I have issues with BDA, mostly with the studios now, but will not constantly bring this up. What would be the point? Just because some here don't beat the horse in the ground on the same old issues doesn't mean that they believe there are no issues.

This should be an enjoyable place and not a place for constant bashing.

Louigi222 · 11-22-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Nobody is sticking their head in the sand. I think many of us have concerns about trying to grow a young format right now in the current economy. Especially a format that costs more money than the format it is supposed to replace. But the article is focusing on DVD sales sagging and if you take the comments from the studios regarding Blu-Ray with that context in mind it makes sense.

Maybe it's time to wean the "baby."

Quote:

And I see you keep avoiding the comments by Universal. So who is burying their head in the sand now

see post #101

Louigi222 · 11-22-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

Bringing up positive and negative issues concerning BD makes for a healthy discussion.

Agreed. You could have stopped here.

Quote:

However, there are some that continue bringing these negative issues up constantly when it serves no purpose.

How do you what purpose it serves? These so called "negative issues" are frequently quoted from newspaper accounts.

Quote:

Constantly bringing up negative issues only appears to be slamming BDA. I have issues with BDA, mostly with the studios now, but will not constantly bring this up.

Why not??? You spend inordinate amounts of time defending the BDA/studios against any form of criticism.

Quote:

What would be the point?

Just to stand up and be heard should be reward in and of itself.

Quote:

Just because some here don't beat the horse in the ground on the same old issues doesn't mean that they believe there are no issues.

Silence on issues is the same as saying they're no issues.

Quote:

This should be an enjoyable place and not a place for constant bashing.

It IS an enjoyable place.

Super XP · 11-22-2008, 03:38 PM

I've seen this coming from Warner sooner or later. And I also see Universal coming out next.
It's make or break for Blu-Ray and it all depends on how well it does in the Christmas Holiday Season for North America.

For Hi Definition’s sake Blu-Ray companies really needs to re-think their current trend and make a strong competitive & extremely cost effective strategic move for this Holiday Season or Blu-Ray is toast.

**PFC5** · 11-22-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

I have some concern when studios make such comments. It's hard to believe that they would even consider dumping the HD format after a year totally backing one format. That's why I feel there is more to that statement than what we actually read.

I have always liked your pragmatic posts. You always seem to see things for what they are and have an honest reply. I thank you for that.

Quote:

Now that sounds a bit harsh! Do you honestly think that complaining day after day will change anything? NO, The reason is the only thing corporations understand and take stock in is revenue. If a item produces profit and is growing then that is what they understand. A handful of belly achers are not going to change anything.

I believe the BDA DOES look at forums and the early adopters to see how they feel because lets face it, we are driving the format still at this time IMO. We all know they were coming to the forums during the format war and had reps posting daily also. So I DO think if they hear that everything is fine with them that they will not change. Maybe we cannot make much of a difference in the end, but i like to think we DO have some part to play in it.

Quote:

To actually "Blame" people for not complaining as the reason BD is struggling is placing guilt where it doesn't belong. Action speaks louder than words.

The best action is not to buy the BD movies/players, if you disagree and have issues.

I agree that belly aching will not solve the problems alone, but stick our heads in the sand is worse and could lead people who come here to see if it is OK to jump into BD and it is "safe" to do so, does an injustice by not giving a fair presentation of the current state of the format also.

It seems many here and on other forums have an agenda ON BOTH SIDES, and that is just unfortunate IMO. We should all be who we are and that is CONSUMERS first, and format champions SECOND.

My

Bravestime · 11-22-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louigi222

Agreed. You could have stopped here.

Quote:

How do you what purpose it serves? These so called "negative issues" are frequently quoted from newspaper accounts.

And as I stated, I have no problem discussing ALL issues. The problem is bringing negative issues constantly when the present discussion as no bearing on that issue.

Quote:

Why not??? You spend inordinate amounts of time defending the BDA/studios against any form of criticism.

That's your perception. You are free to have your opinion. I will continue to defend the facts as I see them, good or bad.

Quote:

Just to stand up and be heard should be reward in and of itself.

What, to rah-rah and bitch and complain how bad BD is and I'm getting screwed by the studios. Rah-Rah.

Quote:

Silence on issues is the same as saying they're no issues.

Show me where I said I would be silent. You just twisted my words around.

If your going to have a discussion, please stick with the facts and what I actually said.

Quote:

It IS an enjoyable place.

Yes it is, and it should remain so. It should not be a place where we constantly harp on negative issues. There's a difference in discussing issues and harping on the same thing over and over again.

**PFC5** · 11-22-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Nobody is sticking their head in the sand. I think many of us have concerns about trying to grow a young format right now in the current economy. Especially a format that costs more money than the format it is supposed to replace. But the article is focusing on DVD sales sagging and if you take the comments from the studios regarding Blu-Ray with that context in mind it makes sense.

And I see you keep avoiding the comments by Universal. So who is burying their head in the sand now

This wasn't directed to me but I wanted to comment on it.

I don't believe that the Warner studio issues with BD as stated are in the context of what is happening with SD DVD although they are interconnected. What I got out of that article is that Warner is pretty disappointed with where the BD format is right now compared to where they hoped/projected it would be. Sure the economy is effecting this, but I also think Warner is frustrated that some of the studios are not lowering prices really like Warner is doing.

Maybe that was part of the reason for making that statement. It might have been a wake up call to the other studios that THEY have to help lower costs of BD movies also. This is just another speculation, but Universal's statement just seems to be rah rahing one particular movie doing better than they projected instead of the whole picture.

Bravestime · 11-22-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I have always liked your pragmatic posts. You always seem to see things for what they are and have an honest reply. I thank you for that.

I believe the BDA DOES look at forums and the early adopters to see how they feel because lets face it, we are driving the format still at this time IMO. We all know they were coming to the forums during the format war and had reps posting daily also. So I DO think if they hear that everything is fine with them that they will not change. Maybe we cannot make much of a difference in the end, but i like to think we DO have some part to play in it.

I agree that belly aching will not solve the problems alone, but stick our heads in the sand is worse and could lead people who come here to see if it is OK to jump into BD and it is "safe" to do so, does an injustice by not giving a fair presentation of the current state of the format also.

It seems many here and on other forums have an agenda ON BOTH SIDES, and that is just unfortunate IMO. We should all be who we are and that is CONSUMERS first, and format champions SECOND.

My

I also appreciate your post, and feel your doing a great job as a mod. We may not totally agree on issues, but that certainly doesn't mean I don't respect your posts.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree WE do need to discuss ALL issues. I know my head is not in the sand and am completely aware of the issues facing BDA. I thoroughly enjoy HD, whether it's blu-ray, HD-DVD or whatever source. I just hate to see us revert back to a lesser source.

**PFC5** · 11-22-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

Bringing up positive and negative issues concerning BD makes for a healthy discussion. However, there are some that continue bringing these negative issues up constantly when it serves no purpose. Constantly bringing up negative issues only appears to be slamming BDA. I have issues with BDA, mostly with the studios now, but will not constantly bring this up. What would be the point? Just because some here don't beat the horse in the ground on the same old issues doesn't mean that they believe there are no issues.

This should be an enjoyable place and not a place for constant bashing.

And some try to do the studios' job of defending and promoting the BD format and avoid and ignore ANY negative aspect and they also continually are negative about anything BUT BD. It is the Ying & Yang of this forum and the others. Fighting this symmetry is futile IMO.

I believe the last things standing in the way of BD becoming a mass market format are the studios. Both the prices of BD movies, and the 5x slower release of BD movies compared to what worked with SD DVD releases.

When the major blogs see trends good/bad in these forums they report them and I am fairly sure the studios watch these major blogs like Gizmodo. I am of the mind that we could just be a BD rah rah fan club right up until the time that the studios say enough and let BD possibly dies on the vine. Or we can say it like it is and hopefully the studios take heed of what they hear/read.

Does anyone remember the kinds of comments that the studios made with other failed formats and what they said about the PSP format before many of them stopped using that format? Maybe that could put these comments that are starting to come out in perspective.

vikingfan · 11-22-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

If you don't think being a long standing member matters at all I don't know what to say. Sure with hardly any posts it matters less, but regular long standing members DO attain some status here just like at any other forum.

Mike's status is the same at every forum, bitter trolling fanboy.

11-22-2008, 03:38 PM	#114
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	I've seen this coming from Warner sooner or later. And I also see Universal coming out next. It's make or break for Blu-Ray and it all depends on how well it does in the Christmas Holiday Season for North America. For Hi Definition’s sake Blu-Ray companies really needs to re-think their current trend and make a strong competitive & extremely cost effective strategic move for this Holiday Season or Blu-Ray is toast. __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10

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11-22-2008, 02:32 PM	#106
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,040	Also, as Niko pointed out: These articles are meaningless. The positive and the negative. No one but enthusiasts even read them. Funny how people think there is so much spin happening if it's a positive article, and yet it has to be dead bang serious if it even hints at something negative. But that's become the culture of our HDM subforum. At least we get some good deals found threads and some nice long running community ones. These discussions are crap IMHO. The HDM crowd has actually sunken below the gaming subforum crowd in terms of pettiness. That's no easy task.