Cheap Blu-ray Players: A Concern for PS3?

BobY · 11-20-2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingfan

So its just "conjecture". Thought maybe you were "in the loop". When you've got some hard data I'll take a look.

Well, market analyisis is one of my jobs. I used hard information from the studios when they said SAL owners buy more discs on average than PS3 owners and I used hard information from the BDA on total discs sold and available titles.

The analysis is pretty easy. Which do you prefer to believe, that 2.5 Million SAL owners typically buy 20,000-30,000 copies of most titles then suddenly buy 1-2 Million of "Iron Man" or "TDK", or that SAL owners buy 500,000 copies and PS3 owners kick in another 500,000-1,000,000?

So what's your analysis? And your hard numbers to back it up?

BobY · 11-20-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

I agree with your post. BDA it rely on the PS3 when Blu-ray entered the market and BDA defended it's format against HD-DVD. PS3 was very important factor in BDA's success against HD-DVD.

However, I do not agree with Boby's statement that BD IS relying on PS3 for movie sales volume. If that is true, why reduce SAL player prices? Why did Sony not reduce the PS3 price? It's obvious to me that BD is pushing SALs as their BD movie source, and NOT the PS3.

Another fact is it doesn't matter what the movies are played on. PS3 functions great as a BD player, so why not use it as such. It is a game console and BD player. This unit probably fits the bill for many consumers that are interested in both aspects. Personally, it's not for me and I have been very satisfied with my S300 and now S550.

Uhm, I'm not saying the BDA wants to rely on the PS3--that is indeed why they are dropping the prices of SALs because they know they can't rely on the PS3. It still a fact that there are far more PS3's out there than SALs and that will likely remain true even after Christmas (which is what the DEG also predicts) and the PS3 demographic will likely continue to affect what movies are more successful than average and therefore, to some extent, what films will be released.

BobY · 11-20-2008, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

I dont believe so since as Lee showed us this was the same case with DVD. And in 1999 the PS2 wasnt out.
Average selling DVD title was around 10-15k while the Matrix sold 780k the first week.

You don't think PS3 owners had anything to do with the sales of "Iron Man" on BD?

bmore · 11-20-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

You don't think PS3 owners had anything to do with the sales of "Iron Man" on BD?

Well, since it is obvious you are trying to indict PS3 owners as the ONLY type that buy those silly "comic book movies" - sure. Whatever you say BobY.

Just for you, we will say that only PS3 users buy those dumb "comic book" movies. And only SA users buy "real" films like Godfather, Patton, Bonnie and Clyde, etc.? Happy? Now we can isolate real film lovers from stupid PS3 owning teenagers, right? I mean, is that your overall gist?

Is that good enough? We can draw a clear delineation between pubescent PS3 owners and their love for those shameful "comic book" movies and video game system, and the more mature, TRUE film aficianados that ONLY use SA's and only view films that have "meaning", or are from the AFI top 100, etc. Sound pleasing?

I mean, that is your undertone, right?

That the PS3 is directed to a younger demographic and hence contribute ~100% tothe success of those flthy "comic book" movies, whereas SA's users are in a higher "class" and have more refined taste in film?

Just know that HD DVD, which had the MINORITY (~33%)of it's players stem from a video game system had two "stupid" movies as the top seller - Transformers and 300. I guess those 66% of standalone users on HD DVD didn't contribute in making a movie based on a toy the #1 movie on the format. Only those pimple faced teenagers with their silly xbox's propelled Transformers to #1, while the more refined SA users resisted that silly title. Right? Give me a break.

But please, continue to indict PS3 users as being some great barrier as to why YOU don't have the titles YOU want on bluray, since the studios are pandering to that disgusting greasy PS3 crowd. Hell, I bet the IQ of SA users is even higher than that of PS3s users. They probably make more money, only drink fine wine, and smoke the finest of cigars. Shall we set up a heirachy of HD player owners? Where SA users reign supreme and lowly PS3 users are the serfs?

Your argument is stale - as Bravestime and others had cited - the shift is occurring. So enjoy your anti-Sony/PS3 soapbox while it lasts, because when it vanishes and SA'a are the majority - you are going to have one less thing to talk about. Though I am certian some issue will still keep you here - as "uninterested" as you may be in the format.

MikeRox · 11-20-2008, 06:33 AM

I don't think it'll be of any concern for the PS3 at all.

Each PS3 sale - lost money. Most of that money is made back from video game sales. (movie sales make Sony far less money than a PS3 game sale does) so in many ways, people buying the PS3 purely for Blu-ray was actually a headache for Sony in trying to recover losses.

Each BD player is sold at a profit (or at the very least, break even) and the PS2 followed the same pattern for DVD in some territories, particularly Japan. The PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market at launch and actually what propelled the format in Japan and when DVD players became cheaper than the PS2 it certainly did that system no damage.

Lee Stewart · 11-20-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

I don't think it'll be of any concern for the PS3 at all.

Each PS3 sale - lost money. Most of that money is made back from video game sales. (movie sales make Sony far less money than a PS3 game sale does) so in many ways, people buying the PS3 purely for Blu-ray was actually a headache for Sony in trying to recover losses.

Each BD player is sold at a profit (or at the very least, break even) and the PS2 followed the same pattern for DVD in some territories, particularly Japan. The PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market at launch and actually what propelled the format in Japan and when DVD players became cheaper than the PS2 it certainly did that system no damage.

Mike:

If you sell a manufactured good for a break even price - you lost money.

And we have no idea if losses are not being incurred on the sale of some of the low priced BD players.

The prices dropped very fast - yet it takes months to get a product manufactured and shipped.

MikeRox · 11-20-2008, 06:46 AM

True Lee, but we DO know that PS3s are sold at a loss and even selling something a "break even" which doesn't incurr a loss as if it does, it's not breaking even. is nowhere near as bad as selling something at a loss of up to several hundred dollars which is what happened with every PS3 sale at one point.

My point was, if 10000 buy a PS3 for Blu-ray exclusively. Sony (and the PlayStation division) end up very out of pocket. Whereas if those 10,000 instead buy a stand alone BD player, the PlayStation division is unaffected but the same volume of Blu-ray sales will come.

bmore · 11-20-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Mike:

If you sell a manufactured good for a break even price - you lost money.

And we have no idea if losses are not being incurred on the sale of some of the low priced BD players.

The prices dropped very fast - yet it takes months to get a product manufactured and shipped.

If losses are being incurred on the low priced BD players then explain this:
Funai Gets Boost From Blu-ray, Converter Boxes

Funai makes almost all of the lowest price players. Yet they made money. And this is the 2nd consecutive quarter that they have cited bluray sales as contributing to the profits.

Care to explain?

Lee Stewart · 11-20-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

If losses are being incurred on the low priced BD players then explain this:
Funai Gets Boost From Blu-ray, Converter Boxes

Funai makes almost all of the lowest price players. Yet they made money. And this is the 2nd consecutive quarter that they have cited bluray sales as contributing to the profits.

Care to explain?

Quote:

Blu-ray Disc players and step-top converter boxes for the United States accounted for $78.4 million and $146.6 million, respectively.

I don't see anything that says they made money. All it shows is the revenue that they received from making those BD players.

bmore · 11-20-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I don't see anything that says they made money. All it shows is the revenue that they received from making those BD players.

Of course you don't:
Let me ask you - is the word "boost" typically associated with something that incurs a loss? I mean, maybe I am retarded, but if something is losing $$, how can it boost their overall $$? By losing less than a bigger loser?

Quote:

Tokyo– Sales of new products such as U.S. TV converter boxes and Blu-ray Disc players boosted Funai Electric’s operating income 108.8 percent to compensate for a 7.5 percent year-on-year decline in sales of mainstay products, the company reported in its consolidated financial results for the first half (April to September) of fiscal 2008.

According to a report from the Nikkei news service, Funai said mainstay product sales declined to about $1.49 billion while operating income surged 108.8 percent year on year to $44.6 million with the help of revenue from set-top boxes and Blu-ray Disc players in the United States.

The new device categories made up for decreased sales of Funai staples including CRT TVs and DVD players, according to Nikkei.

The report said Funai directors acknowledged that sales of TV converter boxes in the U.S. will have only a limited lifespan, following the completion of the U.S. analog TV shut-off in February, but the company expects that to be compensated for next year with increased sales of Blu-ray players and Philips branded LCD TVs in the U.S.

Funai took over sales and marketing of Philips TV products in North America in August following its licensing agreement with Royal Philips Electronics NV of the Netherlands.

In the fiscal first half, Funai said its TV-related sales dropped from $682 million to $586 million from the previous year, while LCD TV sales increased from $464 million to $513 million, and CRT TV sales shrank from $145 million to $59 million. Sales of the other TV-related products declined from $73 million to $14.4 million due to the company's withdrawal from the projector market, Nikkei reported.

DVD player sales fell from the previous year's $189 million to $128 million, and video recorder sales dropped from $25.6 million to $11.3 million. DVD recorder sales nudged up from $113.5 million a year ago to $118.5 million.

The company said sales of new products including Blu-ray Disc players and step-top converter boxes for the United States accounted for $78.4 million and $146.6 million, respectively.

Information equipment sales significantly decreased year on year from $466.7 million to $286 million. Funai said OEM orders for printers decreased while OEM orders for digital cameras recovered.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6614847.html

Please explain to me how they can compensate for losses in other areas of their business with another product (bluray players) that YOU think is also incurring losses.

Give me a break Lee. Can't you just admit one positive thing? Ever? This is the 2nd time Funai has made a quarterly coment about bluray helping out their overall $$? Do you think they are lying? Is the BDA paying them to report this?

Lee Stewart · 11-20-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Of course you don't:
Let me ask you - is the word "boost" typically associated with something that incurs a loss? I mean, maybe I am retarded, but if something is losing $$, how can it boost their overall $$? By losing less than a bigger loser?

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6614847.html

Please explain to me how they can compensate for losses in other areas of their business with another product (bluray players) that YOU think is also incurring losses.

Give me a break Lee. Can't you just admit one positive thing? Ever? This is the 2nd time Funai has made a quarterly coment about bluray helping out their overall $$? Do you think they are lying? Is the BDA paying them to report this?

Quote:

According to a report from the Nikkei news service, Funai said mainstay product sales declined to about $1.49 billion

So what percentage is that revenue of BD players? ($78M against $1.5B)

About 2%?

bmore · 11-20-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

So what percentage is that revenue of BD players? ($78M against $1.5B)

About 2%?

And?

Obviously it is enough to offset other losses. Or is that a bad thing? And they predict more growth for the future via sales of bluray players.

Funai doesn't sound displeased - yet you do. Imagine that.

Nothing will ever be good enough, will it? There will always be some jab to take.

In the long run it doesn't really matter, as your talking points will continue to be obliterated as they have during the past year or so.

Lee Stewart · 11-20-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

And?

Obviously it is enough to offset other losses. Or is that a bad thing? And they predict more growth for the future via sales of bluray players.

Funai doesn't sound displeased - yet you do. Imagine that.

Displeased? Geez Bmore - you STILL try to put words in my mouth. I never said that - YOU DID.

I asked questions.

But of course - we aren't allowed to ask questions here are we? Just sing the praises of BD. . . . NOT!

Quote:

Nothing will ever be good enough, will it? There will always be some jab to take.

That is correct. Nothing will ever be good enough no matter what.

Quote:

In the long run it doesn't really matter, as your talking points will continue to be obliterated as they have during the past year or so.

So speaks the perfect person.

Bmore - people who live in glass houses should NEVER throw stones.

bmore · 11-20-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

That is correct. Nothing will ever be good enough no matter what.

And there you have it. Lee Stewarts carte blanche to complain indefinitely! Yay!

You will look more and more foolish as time progresses then. Your choice. Maybe thats why you don't go over to HDD anymore?

You better hope HDF stays a safe haven and doesn't get flooded with tons of new bluray supporters as the format continues to grow. Your stay here will become increasingly strained with all of those new "blubots" mixiing in with you old "veterans". Maybe you will just have to hang out at The Bomb Shelter when that happens. A refuge for your kind. The kind that found it perfectly reasonable to spend $500+ on HD DVD player(s) alone but won't spend $200 on bluray.

Lee Stewart · 11-20-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

And there you have it. Lee Stewarts carte blanche to complain indefinitely! Yay!

Correct!

Quote:

You will look more and more foolish as time progresses then. Your choice. Maybe thats why you don't go over to HDD anymore?

Bmore - have you looked in the mirror recently. I don't think you have. Talk about looking foolsih - sheesh!

Quote:

You better hope HDF stays a safe haven and doesn't get flooded with tons of new bluray supporters as the format continues to grow. Your stay here will become increasingly strained with all of those new "blubots" mixiing in with you old "veterans". Maybe you will just have to hang out at The Bomb Shelter when that happens. A refuge for your kind. The kind that found it perfectly reasonable to spend $500+ on HD DVD player(s) alone but won't spend $200 on bluray.

LMAO!

Thanks for the laugh Bmore. I can ALWAYS use a good laugh - especially before 9 AM in the morning.

11-20-2008, 06:33 AM	#35
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,260	I don't think it'll be of any concern for the PS3 at all. Each PS3 sale - lost money. Most of that money is made back from video game sales. (movie sales make Sony far less money than a PS3 game sale does) so in many ways, people buying the PS3 purely for Blu-ray was actually a headache for Sony in trying to recover losses. Each BD player is sold at a profit (or at the very least, break even) and the PS2 followed the same pattern for DVD in some territories, particularly Japan. The PS2 was the cheapest DVD player on the market at launch and actually what propelled the format in Japan and when DVD players became cheaper than the PS2 it certainly did that system no damage. __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

11-20-2008, 06:46 AM	#37
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,260	True Lee, but we DO know that PS3s are sold at a loss and even selling something a "break even" which doesn't incurr a loss as if it does, it's not breaking even. is nowhere near as bad as selling something at a loss of up to several hundred dollars which is what happened with every PS3 sale at one point. My point was, if 10000 buy a PS3 for Blu-ray exclusively. Sony (and the PlayStation division) end up very out of pocket. Whereas if those 10,000 instead buy a stand alone BD player, the PlayStation division is unaffected but the same volume of Blu-ray sales will come. __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

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