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Memorex MVBD-2510 Blu-ray player hits $139.99 (but not for long)

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Old 11-17-2008, 01:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ack_bak View Post
Or just get an Onkyo 605 here for $227:
http://www.ecost.com/Detail/Receiver...avid=155438257

ack this 606 has an additional HDMI input (total of 4) for an additional $14 dollars on Amazon ($341). I plan on going with the 606 to match my PS3 because it decodes both DTS-MA and DD-True HD.
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Old 11-17-2008, 01:26 PM   #17
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ack this 606 has an additional HDMI input (total of 4) for an additional $14 dollars on Amazon ($341). I plan on going with the 606 to match my PS3 because it decodes both DTS-MA and DD-True HD.
Check the price agan. The 605 at eCost is $120 cheaper than Amazon (for the 606) and the 605 will decode DTS-HD-MA and TrueHD (I own the 605). The 606 adds 2 more HDMI inputs (the 605 has 2 inputs, and 1 output) and has a few more features. The question is the 606 worth $120 more? For the PS3 you don't need a player that can decode lossless as the PS3 decodes everything. You just need a receiver that supports HDMI audio for PCM.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:02 PM   #18
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And? Here is a parallel - there was one bluray BD Live title, so it really wasn't an issue only having one 2.0 player on the market (the PS3).
But we already KNEW that many more titles would be coming with BD-Live. We do not know that HD DVD would have had studios switching to DTS-HD MA. Heck, Warner is still using VC-1 and DtHD on their tracks and thankfully not using standard DD at only 640kbps alone as much now too.

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But, things change, and more titles became BD Live, just like I guarantee more titles would have came out with DTS HD MA on HD DVD had it lived. Hell, Universal could have switched to DTS HD MA like they did with bluray.
I would say it was less likely myself, but sure there "could" have been more that eventually came out with DTS-HD MA but then the HD DVD newer players would have to evolve to handle this just like BD players did. I think it is fairly safe to say that many more titles coming with BD-Live on BD was more likely than any great number of HD DVD titles changing over to DTS-HD MA. Don;t you?

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On a side note, any care to guess why Universal did switch to DTS HD MA as soon as they went bluray? Hmmm....peculiar...


Maybe DTS has developed better tools to handle the encoding than Dolby, but that is likely not the reason. It could be that using DTS-HD MA allows them to only have to encode ONE soundtrack and have backward compatibility built in. That is the more likely reason, but is just speculation.

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I stated the position of HD DVD supporters that trumpeted 1.5mbps as being "translucent" to lossless. Me personally, I always want lossless - that is why I bought me a lossles receiver. No hassles. I recommend other people upgrade too - when and if they can. I got my 605 last year for ~$350. I think the 606 is cheaper now, with more HDMI I/Os.
And I also prefer lossless when possible, but the difference between lossy at 1.5mbps and lossless is not that great for most people, and most couldn't even tell the difference according to double blind tests some video/audiophiles took from AVS a year ago.

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TrueHD?
Good point, and also LPCM for that matter, but LPCM seems to be getting used less and less now, so it is becoming less relevant for newer releases IMO.

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If you notice, I wasn't really talking about you...

Onkyo 606 - ~$350. Good deal. The memorex bitstreams - but you need a lossless reciever to get the full track. With a lossles reciever you will get ALL, not HALF, of the HD audio. Right?

I thought you were talking about me since i was the one you quoted. NP

But buying a new receiver that decodes the HD audio means that you have another additional expense (from a more limited selection of receivers compared to models that do not decode the HD audio) that can make buying into BD right now. This was one of the reasons I preferred HD DVD which made including the HD audio decoders mandatory in the players. I just bought a new receiver that is a HDMI 1.2 back in 12/2006 because at that time they were saying that you would NOT be able bitstream the HD audio as the common position. I am not going to replace them again this soon.

The 4 points that made me favor HD DVD over BD were:

1. Cheaper player cost due to the simpler modification to the disc structure.

2. Built-in HD audio decoders were mandatory so I and many others could save the cost of a new receiver to hear them.

3. The combo disc that could help transition everyone over to HDM without limiting where a movie could be played back.

4. The cheaper cost of making HD DVD discs compared to BD discs could have/should have resulted in eventually lower HDM movie disc prices. This didn't happen or become relevant since Sony subsidized the additional BD disc mfg costs until they got some of that cost down.


The things I liked better about BD are:

1. The bigger size of the discs.

2. The better protective coating.

3. Once it became established, the great number of lossless audio tracks, but this ends up being limited to only those who buy new receivers or pay quite a bit more for the higher end BD players once they started actually offering DTS-HD MA decoding. Either way BD required other equipment to hear it that HD DVD did not. (That is until they stopped having the 5.1 analog outputs )

What it comes down to is that people want a new expensive (relative to their current SD DVD players) HDM player to be able to do everything it is capable of as a general rule and i am no exception.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:05 PM   #19
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That's ODD. I forgot what that ONE title was you are referring to but I know of TWO others, at least, being sold on Amazon at this very moment.

I got my info from here:

http://www.hddvdstats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio

Look down at the bottom and you will see only ONE title has DTS-HD MA. Are these discs from the USA Amazon site or a foreign country Amazon site?
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:43 PM   #20
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Check the price agan. The 605 at eCost is $120 cheaper than Amazon (for the 606) and the 605 will decode DTS-HD-MA and TrueHD (I own the 605). The 606 adds 2 more HDMI inputs (the 605 has 2 inputs, and 1 output) and has a few more features. The question is the 606 worth $120 more? For the PS3 you don't need a player that can decode lossless as the PS3 decodes everything. You just need a receiver that supports HDMI audio for PCM.
So when I set all this up should I set my PS3 to Linear PCM or Bitstream?
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:46 PM   #21
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So when I set all this up should I set my PS3 to Linear PCM or Bitstream?
PCM. The PS3 cannot bitstream lossess codecs. It decodes them internally and sends them out via PCM to your receiver over HDMI. I have tested bitstreaming the lossless codecs on my Samsung 1500 vs decoding internally on the PS3 and, after level matching, there is no difference in bitstreaming vs decoding internally and sending out PCM. At least on my gear and with my ears
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:51 PM   #22
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PCM. The PS3 cannot bitstream lossess codecs. It decodes them internally and sends them out via PCM to your receiver over HDMI. I have tested bitstreaming the lossless codecs on my Samsung 1500 vs decoding internally on the PS3 and, after level matching, there is no difference in bitstreaming vs decoding internally and sending out PCM. At least on my gear and with my ears
So if I leave my PS3 on Linear PCM and hook it up to receiver via HDMI I am good to go with the PS3 with DD True HD and DTS MA? Also, what audio setting would I set my HD DVD player to? You'll have to forgive me as I am an videophile and am trying to become an audiophile as well.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:54 PM   #23
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Yes you would set the audio out put for both the PS3 and the HD-A2 as PCM output so the players can do the decoding since NEITHER will bitstream the HD audio soundtracks.

I can tell you are starting to get excited about this purchase now.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:55 PM   #24
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I got my info from here:

http://www.hddvdstats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio

Look down at the bottom and you will see only ONE title has DTS-HD MA. Are these discs from the USA Amazon site or a foreign country Amazon site?
Quote:
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons / Concertos for Double Orchestra - Acoustic Reality Experience [HD DVD]
Format: HD DVD


See all 8 customer reviews...
3.5 out of 5 stars See all reviews (8 customer reviews)
List Price: $29.99
Price: $21.95 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
You Save: $8.04 (27%)
Special Offers Available
In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.
http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-Concertos-Orchestra-Acoustic-Experience/dp/B0012UK516/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1226952252&sr=8-1
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:58 PM   #25
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Thanks for the link. I actually meant to say "movies" but IMO music counts also since it is another use of these players. I imagine this title would be of limited appeal to most people (at least me), but I stand corrected.

Thanks for showing this!
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:03 PM   #26
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Yes you would set the audio out put for both the PS3 and the HD-A2 as PCM output so the players can do the decoding since NEITHER will bitstream the HD audio soundtracks.

I can tell you are starting to get excited about this purchase now.
Slightly.

So the PS3 will decode the PCM on it's own and the signal will simply pass through the receiver to the speakers? When True HD or DTS MA is used the signal will be decoded by the receiver rather than the PS3 or A2 and then sent to the speakers? So either way I am covered if I get a decent speaker set and sub?
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #27
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Yes!
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:42 PM   #28
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So if I leave my PS3 on Linear PCM and hook it up to receiver via HDMI I am good to go with the PS3 with DD True HD and DTS MA? Also, what audio setting would I set my HD DVD player to? You'll have to forgive me as I am an videophile and am trying to become an audiophile as well.
HDGoofnut. These are excellent questions, no need to apologize Yes. You will leave your PS3 set for PCM (just ensure you have your PS3 set to output audio and video over HDMI. The PS3 will decode DTS-HD-MA and TrueHD internally and will pass the audio via PCM to your receiver. Your Onkyo will display "Multichannel PCM", and you will be good to go.

For your HD DVD player, you will want to set it to::
SPDIF = Bitstream
HDMI = Auto
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:09 PM   #29
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And I also prefer lossless when possible, but the difference between lossy at 1.5mbps and lossless is not that great for most people, and most couldn't even tell the difference according to double blind tests some video/audiophiles took from AVS a year ago.
I am not saying I can hear the difference either. But when I crack my wallet open, I want lossless, not lossy. Regardless. Thats why WB pisses me off.

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But buying a new receiver that decodes the HD audio means that you have another additional expense (from a more limited selection of receivers compared to models that do not decode the HD audio) that can make buying into BD right now. This was one of the reasons I preferred HD DVD which made including the HD audio decoders mandatory in the players. I just bought a new receiver that is a HDMI 1.2 back in 12/2006 because at that time they were saying that you would NOT be able bitstream the HD audio as the common position. I am not going to replace them again this soon.

The only lossless codec that was required on HD DVD (and was not required on bluray) was TrueHD. PCM was mandatory for both, and DTS HD MA was optional for both.
Of course bluray went with 640kbps DD while HD DVD went with DD+, but neither of those are lossless.

But isn't it funny that the format that required TrueHD didn't use it nearly as much as the format where is was optional?

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The 4 points that made me favor HD DVD over BD were:

1. Cheaper player cost due to the simpler modification to the disc structure.
or Toshiba subsidization....

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2. Built-in HD audio decoders were mandatory so I and many others could save the cost of a new receiver to hear them.
Only TrueHD. And bluray smoked HD DVD in the % of lossless titles, even though it was only optional. HD DVD still sits at 24%.

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3. The combo disc that could help transition everyone over to HDM without limiting where a movie could be played back.
"Could" indeed. But they didn't. Turns out not many people saw the value/cost they offered. That's why the studios starting offering the previous combo discs in their HD DVD only form later on in the format.

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4. The cheaper cost of making HD DVD discs compared to BD discs could have/should have resulted in eventually lower HDM movie disc prices. This didn't happen or become relevant since Sony subsidized the additional BD disc mfg costs until they got some of that cost down.
Once again, "could". But none of these things every came to fruition - regardless of what bluray did. What were they thinking? Too little, too late...

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... Either way BD required other equipment to hear it that HD DVD did not. (That is until they stopped having the 5.1 analog outputs )
Partially. But not really when you think about it. The most popular HD DVD players did not offer 5.1 outs. In fact, out of the A1, XA1, A2, A20, XA2, A3, A30 and A35 (8 total), only 50% (A1, XA1, XA2, A35) had analog outs I believe. And those players were $500 or more, frequently ~$800 when HD DVD was alive. BY far the A2/A20 and A3's were the most common (besides the 360 add on which was ~1/3 of total HD DVD players and lacked any HD audio support). This, and the fact that lossless is at only 24% for the format, and the point largely becomes moot. It is certainly not as one sided as you make it seem, especially since a lot of early blurays came with PCM, compared to absolutely 0 HD DVDs with PCM.

Last edited by bmore; 11-17-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 11-17-2008, 07:24 PM   #30
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Slightly.

So the PS3 will decode the PCM on it's own and the signal will simply pass through the receiver to the speakers? When True HD or DTS MA is used the signal will be decoded by the receiver rather than the PS3 or A2 and then sent to the speakers? So either way I am covered if I get a decent speaker set and sub?
It is awesome when it all comes together.

I just want to make sure and point something out though. You asked if the signal will simply pass through the receiver to the speakers. Yes. The PCM signal will go from the A2 and PS3 to the 606. The 606 will then send out the audio to the speakers. But the 606 will not decode anything itself. The players do all the decoding, even regular DTS/DD on DVD's.

IIRC, it used to be on the PS3, you could pick to do LPCM for the Lossless audio and have the Lossy audio bitstreamed. But no more. EVERYTHING gets decoded by the PS3 and sent as PCM.
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