Toshiba's XDE DVD players won't hurt Blu-ray Disc

Loves2Watch · 09-03-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Forbes

Then buy a Profile 2.0 player. There! Wasn't that easy??

If I want a DVD player that plays DVD-Audio, I'll buy one that can handle that. Same if I want a player that does SACD. Not all have them because not all people want those features. Not all people will want to bother connecting their BD players to the Internet, so why should they pay for the added cost? If you want it, buy one that's 2.0. If you don't, then buy something else.

Strange, that seems very pro-consumer to me.

Sure, part of the reason we ended up with Profiles is because of the format war pushing BD to come to market a little ahead of schedule, but now that we're this far into the product cycle, I think choice is a good thing.

I have the new Sony BD player that can be upgraded to Profile 2.0 with firmware, but I doubt I'll bother with it. I'm not planning on ever connecting the thing to the Internet. So far I haven't heard of any connectivity I find compelling in the least, on the Blu-ray side or the deceased HD DVD side. It simply doesn't have any interest for me. Neither do most "extras" on SD DVDs. The Lord of the Rings EE DVDs are the only discs where I worked through just about all of the extras.

And just why should there be ANY added cost for these features. It is NOT a car it is a media player. Those features should be available on all players for all consumers at the best price available. It is ONLY adding to consumer confusion. Let's get real here.

bmore · 09-03-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

And what does that mean, didn't even get 1080p? It still has the same amount of resolution and the TV upscales it to 1080p so what's the difference as it's still 1080p. I paid $99 and $50 (all 6 1080p, FYI) for all of my HD-DVD players except one so your justification holds no water. Again nothing except more Sony/BDA anti-consumerism.

Let me get this straight, are you accusing MikeRox of "more Sony/BDA anti-consumerism"?

bmore · 09-03-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

And just why should there be ANY added cost for these features. It is NOT a car it is a media player. Those features should be available on all players for all consumers at the best price available. It is ONLY adding to consumer confusion. Let's get real here.

Umm, because those "features" aren't free for the CE to implement, so why should they be free to us? I mean seriously, using your logic most CE companies would be out of business, eating all of their own costs.

Of course, others would call what you are complaining about "choice". For example, I can buy a 120Hz TV. Or I can buy one without it. But according to your philosophy, all TVs should have 120Hz interpolation, and I can choose to use it or not. But that also means I have to pay for something I may never use, because 120Hz isn't free for the CE to implement, and thus they pass it down to the consumer. That seems rather anti-consumer to me, force me to buy something I don't want and won't use...

Sorry, but that is not how the CE industry works. It is called product differentiation.

Loves2Watch · 09-03-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Or some would call that choice.

For example, I can buy a 120HZ TV. Or I can buy one without it. But according to your philosophy, all TVs should have 120Hz interpolation, and I can choose to use it or not. But that also means I have to pay for something I may never use. That seems rather anti-consumer to me.

Sorry, but that is not how the CE industry works. Sorry. It is called product differentiation.

I knew YOU would fail to see the point.

Loves2Watch · 09-03-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Let me get this straight, are you accusing MikeRox of "more Sony/BDA anti-consumerism"?

I didn't accuse MikeRox of anything but if the shoe fits you can certainly wear it.

David Forbes · 09-03-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

I knew YOU would fail to see the point.

Well, there's certainly someone who fails to see the point. It's just not bmore.

Are you really that clueless as to how CE manufacturers work? If you want something with additional features, whether it's a car, a computer, a BD player, or a DVD player, you pay more for it. Hell, even HD DVD had that kind of product differentiation!

Super XP · 09-03-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Like all the people who spent $300 on a piece of equipment and "didn't even get 1080p"? If you want all the features, I'd expect to pay top dollar regardless of what it is.

If you pay £6000 for a car, you get 4 wheels, an engine, and a basic body. £8000 will get AC, a better audio system etc. You don't get "ALL" the features though

Now this does not make sense at all. You cannot compare a Jetta with a BMW.

Does not matter if the buyer has a 1080p HDTV or not, the only concern is that he gets a player with standardized features so that one day he may go out and buy himself a 1080p HDTV.

Super XP · 09-03-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Forbes

Well, there's certainly someone who fails to see the point. It's just not bmore.

Are you really that clueless as to how CE manufacturers work? If you want something with additional features, whether it's a car, a computer, a BD player, or a DVD player, you pay more for it. Hell, even HD DVD had that kind of product differentiation!

I think you are missing the point made here. HD DVD was based on finished specs. All HD DVD players had the ability to connect to the internet and enjoy interactive features present in the disc, something Blu-Ray will never have with all its players.

bmore · 09-03-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

I knew YOU would fail to see the point.

Please tell me why I should pay for something I don't want? In any product.

If I want 6 eggs, should I have to buy a dozen? Just because some people may want a dozen? Should they not sell half dozens? That equates to less choice.

If I want a DVD player that just plays DVD, and not jpeg or divx files, should I have to pay extra for them? Luckily they make DVD players that don't play jpeg and divx files, and they are cheaper. Good for the consumer.

I fail to see your logic. If it can't be expanded to other areas of consumerism, it fails one of the most critical tests.

Once again. Product. Differentiation. It is nothing new.

Chris Gerhard · 09-03-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Forbes

Then buy a Profile 2.0 player. There! Wasn't that easy??

If I want a DVD player that plays DVD-Audio, I'll buy one that can handle that. Same if I want a player that does SACD. Not all have them because not all people want those features. Not all people will want to bother connecting their BD players to the Internet, so why should they pay for the added cost? If you want it, buy one that's 2.0. If you don't, then buy something else.

Strange, that seems very pro-consumer to me.

Sure, part of the reason we ended up with Profiles is because of the format war pushing BD to come to market a little ahead of schedule, but now that we're this far into the product cycle, I think choice is a good thing.

I have the new Sony BD player that can be upgraded to Profile 2.0 with firmware, but I doubt I'll bother with it. I'm not planning on ever connecting the thing to the Internet. So far I haven't heard of any connectivity I find compelling in the least, on the Blu-ray side or the deceased HD DVD side. It simply doesn't have any interest for me. Neither do most "extras" on SD DVDs. The Lord of the Rings EE DVDs are the only discs where I worked through just about all of the extras.

I have Loves2Watch on ignore so I don't see his posts except when somebody quotes them. It is hard to understand how my take that offering Profile 1.1 Blu-ray players to give consumers a choice is anti consumer, but the reason I put him on ignore was based on his take on my opinions, he either can't understand or doesn't like my opinion. He sure never disputed my opinions with anything that makes sense to me.

If I offer the business side of product development and marketing as something to be considered, that shouldn't be considered anti-consumer, only something to consider to understand why business decisions are made and that providing everything the consumer might request isn't feasible.

Chris

Loves2Watch · 09-03-2008, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Once again. Product. Differentiation.

You call it product differentiation (corporate thinking), I call it a way to sell finished/finalized products at a higher price. Anything below profile 2.0 is ALPHA (profile 1.0) or BETA (profile 1.1).

Super XP · 09-03-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

You call it product differentiation (corporate thinking), I call it a way to sell finished/finalized products at a higher price. Anything below profile 2.0 is ALPHA (profile 1.0) or BETA (profile 1.1).

AGREED

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Umm, because those "features" aren't free for the CE to implement, so why should they be free to us? I mean seriously, using your logic most CE companies would be out of business, eating all of their own costs.

Of course, others would call what you are complaining about "choice". For example, I can buy a 120Hz TV. Or I can buy one without it. But according to your philosophy, all TVs should have 120Hz interpolation, and I can choose to use it or not. But that also means I have to pay for something I may never use, because 120Hz isn't free for the CE to implement, and thus they pass it down to the consumer. That seems rather anti-consumer to me, force me to buy something I don't want and won't use...

Sorry, but that is not how the CE industry works. It is called product differentiation.

You are just as bad a Chris with these baseless posts. You are talking a basic FACT about "Profile 1.1 and 2.0" and trying to make sense of something that cannot make sense regardless in how you try to make sense of it. Stop sticking up for the BDA's mishaps. Blu-Ray is still a very confusing product to J6P’s.

If I buy a BD movie with internet features, I’d better be able to use my BD player to interact and enjoy those internet features. This is the problem, people should be given the decision to either use it or not use it, not CE and the BDA.

The BDA already proven that they are in this for the money and to screw the consumer that purchased Profile 1.0 & 1.1 players because they lack the final profile 2.0 features period. If you and Chris cannot swallow this basic FACT, then you truly work for the BDA.

bmore · 09-03-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

I think you are missing the point made here. HD DVD was based on finished specs. All HD DVD players had the ability to connect to the internet and enjoy interactive features present in the disc, something Blu-Ray will never have with all its players.

That is merely one "standard" feature.

Did all HD DVD players have the same audio decoding abilities? Nope. That was a non-standard feature.

Did all HD DVD players have the same type of upscaling abilites? Nope. That was a non-standard feature.

Yes, all had internet capabilites. But that was ONE feature that was the same. Other features were not.

It just so happens that with bluray, the internet feature is not applied to all players. Just like 1080p wasn't applied to all HD DVD players.

Tit for tat. What is important to you may not be important to others. You can't pick and choose which feature YOU think should have been "standard", just because YOU think it is more important.

Most people could care less about internet connectivity. And for all of those internet capable HD DVD players, how many discs had those features???

Both formats had product differentiation. You are just myopically focusing on only one "standard". The fact that HD DVD had all of their players internet ready is no different from the fact that bluray had all of their players 1080p. Different strokes.

Chris Gerhard · 09-03-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

AGREED

You are just as bad a Chris with these baseless posts. You are talking a basic FACT about "Profile 1.1 and 2.0" and trying to make sense of something that cannot make sense regardless in how you try to make sense of it. Stop sticking up for the BDA's mishaps. Blu-Ray is still a very confusing product to J6P’s.

If I buy a BD movie with internet features, I’d better be able to use my BD player to interact and enjoy those internet features. This is the problem, people should be given the decision to either use it or not use it, not CE and the BDA.

The BDA already proven that they are in this for the money and to screw the consumer that purchased Profile 1.0 & 1.1 players because they lack the final profile 2.0 features period. If you and Chris cannot swallow this basic FACT, then you truly work for the BDA.

Just hilarious, because I or any other consumer might want a less expensive player that doesn't do things I don't want means it is a basic fact that all consumers feeling that way work for the BDA? You really outdid yourself with that one and believe me, it is hard to top your posts from the last couple years with never ending nonsense we see from you.

Chris

dsskid · 09-03-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Watch

You call it product differentiation (corporate thinking), I call it a way to sell finished/finalized products at a higher price. Anything below profile 2.0 is ALPHA (profile 1.0) or BETA (profile 1.1).

So is the XDE considered BETA because it doesn't have the spurs engine in it? Is it an unfinished/finalized product? Did Toshiba rush out their unfinished product? Won't this further confuse the consumer?

No, because if and when the spur engine comes out, it will be listed under another model number, and the consumer will have a choice: spend less for the current XDE model, or spend a premium for the model with the spurs engine in it.

If the current XDE is "good enough", and the consumer decides to spend less, so be it.

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