SRT TV With Cell Officially Announced by Toshiba

**kamspy** · 08-29-2008, 01:32 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/29/t...-in-the-flesh/

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/28...ion-upscaling/

Well, it's got the Cell processor. You can click the engadget links if you wish. You'll get the usual anit-Toshiba/SRT rhetoric from them, and some screen shot comparisons of still images containing rugs and sweaters.

There will be 40" and 46" varients. A 100Hz refresh rate with 5:5 pulldown (why not just 72Hz?). 1080p, 4 HDMI ports etc, etc.

BTW, Hatt got the scoop: Officially coined Resolution+

Pics:

My

Pros:

SRT for Cable/Sat, regular DVDs, Camcorders.

5:5 pulldown

Cons:

Size limitations

Heat! The 90nm Cell consumes 200w, the 65nm Cell consumes 135w and the 45nm Cell (newest) consumes 100w. Add whichever it uses to the average power consumption of an LCD ~213W.
-will there be a fan?
-perhaps the casing thickness is used for heatsinks/pipes?
-price?

Not a Plasma

100Hz doesn't play nice with PC video cards

Your Thoughts?

Lee Stewart · 08-29-2008, 01:38 PM

How do you do 5:5 pulldown with 100 mhz?

You would need 120 Mhz.

Is that HDTV slated for Europe? Cause 100 Mhz would make sense with their 50 Mhz standard.

**kamspy** · 08-29-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

How do you do 5:5 pulldown with 100 mhz?

You would need 120 Mhz.

Is that HDTV slated for Europe? Cause 100 Mhz would make sense with their 50 Mhz standard.

I thought the same thing, but that's what the article says

Quote:

Toshiba will be shipping the 40ZF575D (40-inch) and the 46ZF575D (46-inch), both offering 1080p, 30,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio, 6ms response times and Active Vision M100 HD 100Hz 5:5 pulldown processing, along with four HDMI plugs, component video, RGB and PC input.

EDIT: Lee is correct. This is the Euro spec sheet. We will have to wait and see what the US sheet will bring.

Loves2Watch · 08-29-2008, 01:44 PM

Too bad it isn't a plasma. Toshiba made pretty good ones, at that.

**kamspy** · 08-29-2008, 01:46 PM

I wonder if they found a work-around for the rumor of audio lag with devices that run audio independently from video.

Lee Stewart · 08-29-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Right now this is just a Europe launch, and we don't have exact ship dates or pricing, but hopefully Toshiba will soon rectify that.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/t...ion-upscaling/

HD Goofnut · 08-29-2008, 01:52 PM

All I can say is that this is definitely something to get excited about, especially if their price point for the 42" is around $1500.

**kamspy** · 08-29-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/28/t...ion-upscaling/

I edited my second post. You are right. But it seems they've got a specific name for 100Hz tech, maybe they'll just use that same name and make it 120Hz here in the states.

Sony LCDs are coming out with 240Hz for a perfect pulldown

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

All I can say is that this is definitely something to get excited about, especially if their price point for the 42" is around $1500.

Good luck with that figure. Seriously, I doubt even the 42" will sell for a penny less than $2k. But who knows.

Lee Stewart · 08-29-2008, 03:12 PM

This XXX Mhz issue - sounds like the typical Japanese - hyping something that doesn't really exist - like they did years ago with the high resolution numbers on RPTV's and the ridiculious million to 1 contrast ratio numbers.

The ONLY company who has proven that their technology does get rid of motion blur due to 3:2 pulldown is Pioneer and they are using 72 Mhz for a true 3:3 frame rate.

240 Mhz . . . 10:10 pulldown? Yea right!

**kamspy** · 08-29-2008, 03:24 PM

10:10=3:3=1:1

Or did I miss something?

**PFC5** · 08-29-2008, 04:14 PM

The reason Europe has 100hz and we have 120hz is to have a whole multiple of frame rate based on what electricity frequency is in use. With Europe having 50hz they have a film rate of 25hz which would have a cadence of 4:4 (25x4=100hz). For video it is 2:2 (50hz x 2=100hz). In North America and Japan the electricity is 60hz, based on film @ 24hz (Fps) which would require a 72hz for 3:3 cadence with film (24hzx3=72hz), but for video it needs to be
120hz so it is a whole multiple 60hz (60 x 2 = 120hz).

I would imagine to get 10:10 would be expensive to improve the refresh speed that much. You would look for the LCD (Least Common Denominator) to get the closest to film speed to preserve the look of film in the theaters. Using 240hz with 10:10 cadence would not even look like video much less film.

Lee Stewart · 08-29-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

10:10=3:3=1:1

Or did I miss something?

HDM is recorded at 24 frames/sec.

Have you seen a Pioneer running at 72 Mhz?

It is not an issue of getting the frame rate as high as you can. That will distort the image. As it is - most of these high Mhz HDTV's make film look like video.

You want a movie to look like Discovery HD?

Cause that isn't what it looked like in a theater.

bmore · 08-29-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

HDM is recorded at 24 frames/sec.

Have you seen a Pioneer running at 72 Mhz?

It is not an issue of getting the frame rate as high as you can. That will distort the image. As it is - most of these high Mhz HDTV's make film look like video.

You want a movie to look like Discovery HD?

Cause that isn't what it looked like in a theater.

Why do you keep using Mhz and mHz units?

It is just Hz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency

Lee Stewart · 08-29-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmore

Why do you keep using Mhz and mHz units?

It is just Hz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency

Whatever.

The_Omega_Man · 08-29-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

I wonder if they found a work-around for the rumor of audio lag with devices that run audio independently from video.

On my Regza there is an Audio Sync mode via the HDMI 1.3 interface. I would assume that this would contain the same capability. I have not seen the spec. sheets on this model.

With that and my Onkyo 606, they do an "Okay," job with the lip sync. No problems with the XA2 but the D*TV HR21 has been a challenge until now.

08-29-2008, 01:32 PM	#1
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,048	SRT TV With Cell Officially Announced by Toshiba http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/29/t...-in-the-flesh/ http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/08/28...ion-upscaling/ Well, it's got the Cell processor. You can click the engadget links if you wish. You'll get the usual anit-Toshiba/SRT rhetoric from them, and some screen shot comparisons of still images containing rugs and sweaters. There will be 40" and 46" varients. A 100Hz refresh rate with 5:5 pulldown (why not just 72Hz?). 1080p, 4 HDMI ports etc, etc. BTW, Hatt got the scoop: Officially coined Resolution+ Pics: My Pros: SRT for Cable/Sat, regular DVDs, Camcorders. 5:5 pulldown Cons: Size limitations Heat! The 90nm Cell consumes 200w, the 65nm Cell consumes 135w and the 45nm Cell (newest) consumes 100w. Add whichever it uses to the average power consumption of an LCD ~213W. -will there be a fan? -perhaps the casing thickness is used for heatsinks/pipes? -price? Not a Plasma 100Hz doesn't play nice with PC video cards Your Thoughts? Last edited by kamspy; 08-29-2008 at 03:43 PM.

08-29-2008, 01:44 PM	#4
Loves2Watch SPAM Police Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: AZ, NM, TX, MX Posts: 13,940	Too bad it isn't a plasma. Toshiba made pretty good ones, at that. __________________ Theater 1 - Panasonic TH-85PF12U Plasma TV, 6 Conrad Johnson LP275M Amps, Anthem Statement D-2 Pre/Pro, 6 Thiel SCS4 Speakers, 2 REL T-1 Subs, Infinity Interlude 120S Sub, Simaudio MOON Orbiter Universal Disc Player, ELP Laser Turntable, 2 Dish Network ViP 622 DVR's, Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player, Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player. Friends don't let friends buy Korean brand TV's.

08-29-2008, 01:52 PM	#7
HD Goofnut The Official HDF Reviewer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mississippi, U.S.A. Your resident Dune, Star Wars, and war film expert Age: 27 Posts: 6,850	All I can say is that this is definitely something to get excited about, especially if their price point for the 42" is around $1500. __________________ My Review Setup Sanyo DP46848 46" 1080p LCD Onkyo TX-SR606 7.1 DirecTV HR21-100 HD DVR Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 System LG BH200 Super Blu Toshiba HD-A20 Sony 40 GB PS3 (Now with Netflix streaming!) 156~206~My Movie Collection Latest Review: *Men in Black* Be sure to check out the Blu-ray Review Request Thread

08-29-2008, 04:14 PM	#11
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,385	The reason Europe has 100hz and we have 120hz is to have a whole multiple of frame rate based on what electricity frequency is in use. With Europe having 50hz they have a film rate of 25hz which would have a cadence of 4:4 (25x4=100hz). For video it is 2:2 (50hz x 2=100hz). In North America and Japan the electricity is 60hz, based on film @ 24hz (Fps) which would require a 72hz for 3:3 cadence with film (24hzx3=72hz), but for video it needs to be 120hz so it is a whole multiple 60hz (60 x 2 = 120hz). I would imagine to get 10:10 would be expensive to improve the refresh speed that much. You would look for the LCD (Least Common Denominator) to get the closest to film speed to preserve the look of film in the theaters. Using 240hz with 10:10 cadence would not even look like video much less film. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

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08-29-2008, 01:38 PM	#2
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	How do you do 5:5 pulldown with 100 mhz? You would need 120 Mhz. Is that HDTV slated for Europe? Cause 100 Mhz would make sense with their 50 Mhz standard.

08-29-2008, 01:46 PM	#5
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,048	I wonder if they found a work-around for the rumor of audio lag with devices that run audio independently from video.

08-29-2008, 03:12 PM	#9
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	This XXX Mhz issue - sounds like the typical Japanese - hyping something that doesn't really exist - like they did years ago with the high resolution numbers on RPTV's and the ridiculious million to 1 contrast ratio numbers. The ONLY company who has proven that their technology does get rid of motion blur due to 3:2 pulldown is Pioneer and they are using 72 Mhz for a true 3:3 frame rate. 240 Mhz . . . 10:10 pulldown? Yea right!

08-29-2008, 03:24 PM	#10
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,048	10:10=3:3=1:1 Or did I miss something?