What Is The DVD Forum Doing With HD DVD, Gaming Perhaps?

[kamspy]

Originally Posted by PFC5

Of course it IS by what the law says now. Also, who would do that on a game they already own? They would "borrow" their friends game disc to do it, or from a rental of the game, so yeah, it would be pirating IMO.

Also knowing you have kids, how do you explain this as being "all right" to them without sending the wrong signals?

I didn't mean in legal terms, I meant download a media file from the internet or buy a bootleg version at gas station.

The PS3 trick requires having the disc in hand.

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by kamspy

I didn't mean in legal terms, I meant download a media file from the internet or buy a bootleg version at gas station.

The PS3 trick requires having the disc in hand.

But it could be a borrowed or rental disc so even morally it would still be pirating even if you leave the "law" out of it.

[kamspy]

Originally Posted by PFC5

But it could be a borrowed or rental disc so even morally it would still be pirating even if you leave the "law" out of it.

I know. I don't pirate things I like. My logic is if I pay money to people who make things I enjoy they will continue to make them. (Except for my local footlong cheese coney and rootbeer stand They tanked and no one pirated a single dog)

Same for movies. But when I pay for them, I don't see it as giving money to the actors and directors. I don't pirate movies I like because I want to support the crew. The lighting guys, electricians, special effects crew. The people not making millions and living in the hills.

Same goes for video games. Most of the code in games comes from people who drive used Honda Civics. There's always rockstars in both mediums; Spielberg, Miyamoto, Newell, Blezenski, Scorsese, etc. I wouldn't really care to take $0.50 out of their pocket. But it's the grunts who I support when I buy my media.

That's why I don't pirate things I like.


Morally? If I was to live life with absolute morals according to what most people consider piracy morals, I couldn't shop at Wal-Mart, talk on telephones, listen to radio, drive most cars, pretty much do anything if you work the logic high enough up the moral ladder.

You'd really have to be Amish IMO to live absolutely by those standards.

JMO.


*Plus, the PS3 hack can turn your PS3 into an unwarrantable brick with no warning.

Readers beware.

[Dare]

Originally Posted by kamspy

I didn't mean in legal terms, I meant download a media file from the internet or buy a bootleg version at gas station.

The PS3 trick requires having the disc in hand.

You underestimate hackers. If you give it enough time, they can tell you how to build a complete PS3 from a pile of bits from Radio Shack, and include all the modifications to make it do whatever you want. Modifying your existing PS3 will be no problem.

Remember how BD+ was supposed to be unbreakable?

I'm sure the hackers would have no trouble creating a mod to convince a theoretical "X-Box 720" into thinking an external Blu-ray drive is an HD-DVD drive.

[MikeRox]

Originally Posted by PFC5

Speculation ahaed:

OK. So someone gets the game off a HD DVD based 720 game and now has it on their computer. What do they do with it?

Run it off a HDD hooked up via USB?

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Run it off a HDD hooked up via USB?

And if it is hard coded to not allow games to be played off the hard drive? Can I get a PS3 game from the internet and run it off of my computer via a USB port on the PS3 without extensive mods? If so, how many people would do this, compared to just burning it if they used a BD drive?

Trying to stop pirating is not about making it impossible for ANYONE to ever not find a way, but rather to make the time/cost so high that it makes it impractical to bother pirating it. It is more about deterrence than making it impossible.

[Dare]

Hackers do it just for notoriety, or because they have way too much time on their hands in their mothers' basements. Bother and expense isn't a deterrent for them. It's actually a challenge.

Once it's broken, then all of mankind benefits from the hackers' hard work. It becomes easy.

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by Dare

You underestimate hackers. If you give it enough time, they can tell you how to build a complete PS3 from a pile of bits from Radio Shack, and include all the modifications to make it do whatever you want. Modifying your existing PS3 will be no problem.

Remember how BD+ was supposed to be unbreakable?

I'm sure the hackers would have no trouble creating a mod to convince a theoretical "X-Box 720" into thinking an external Blu-ray drive is an HD-DVD drive.

Yes, this is very possible , it can be done. But for the average person its not, this is why HD DVD would be the ideal format for the new XBOX 720.

[railven]

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Run it off a HDD hooked up via USB?

Originally Posted by PFC5

And if it is hard coded to not allow games to be played off the hard drive? Can I get a PS3 game from the internet and run it off of my computer via a USB port on the PS3 without extensive mods? If so, how many people would do this, compared to just burning it if they used a BD drive?

Trying to stop pirating is not about making it impossible for ANYONE to ever not find a way, but rather to make the time/cost so high that it makes it impractical to bother pirating it. It is more about deterrence than making it impossible.

Exactly Mike, and yes you can PFC5.

Consoles are ultimately computers, and as computers they can run user created code. Just look at the PSP/PS2 and how the Linux coders have had their way with it. You can now play modified content on the PS2 Chubby/Slim without modding it. The same goes for the PSP if you are willing to buy two batteries *using the Pandora's box tricks.*

When these things are modified for illegal usage playing online and using official extensions aren't the primary focus. And the ones that jump through hoops to do this to a console often have more than one console (one tricked out, one normal.)

You can currently rip PS3 games using the PS3 itself and store the BD ISO on its HDD, transfer it over to a PC for illegal distrubition. You can also load ISOs on the PS3 from its HDD. All you need are a few simple programs and a Linux Kernel - no warranty voiding case opening mods. Simple programs found on the internet with tutorials.

You can do the same with the Xbox360. in fact, one of the coolest features of the original Xbox was installing a stealth chip, a large HDD, and playing all your movies, games, emulators, roms, etc off the HDD - never having to swap a disc, just flipping a little switch for the stealth chip and you could still go online (note these chips are also available for the Xbox360, but due to RRoD, from my readings a lot of people didn't bite since it would obviously void your warranty.)
EDIT: Here is where the "hard coded to not allow games to play off the Hard drive" comes in. People make whats called a Boot Loader. It is a simple often CDR with official boot files. You put this in the drive, the drive reads the boot info, and then think it has an official Disc in the drive. The disc often contains code to launch a program from the HDD. This is one of the ways you do it on the PS2 if you have a modified unit. If not, you use a memory card trick and an official PS1 game. Either way, tricking the system to think it has an official disc is really easy. I do it with some PC games that I can't remove the insert disc crap. I just make a boot ISO load it onto a virtual drive and my PC and the game security system both think I have the disc in my PC, when I actually don't.

You can play pirated ISOs off a network, the file itself doesn't have to be present on the HDD/system. And get this, even current PS3 games aren't the full 25/50GB. They've been using ISO busters since the day of Dreamcast. Remember the Dreamcast used a GB-ROM disc? Yet, they cropped out the fat and managed to store them on CDs for illegal distrubition. The same has happened to some PS2 games.

A person could trim the unwanted fat from the games and even reduce the file size to a DL-DVD.

HD DVD won't make it harder for piracy to occur. People will just modify the unit itself ala the PS3 (use the system itself to rip the ISO to the HDD_, they won't need a dedicated HD DVD drive for their PC and if they wanted to they can take apart this hypothetical Xbox 720, take out the HD DVD drive, and strap it onto a PC as they did with the current HD DVD Add-On.

EDIT: Also note, it isn't Joe-Gamer that does all this extensive work. It is a group of underground people who often do this for fun. They post their findings and tutorials on the internets. I won't post anything, but you can easily pirate on the PS3 without owning a BD-Burner. On the Xbox360 you need a little more work, but the risks are high due to RRoD.

[PFC5]

I know there are hackers out there that can find a way to do just about anything, but what percentage of people with this future 720 console would actually jump through all the hoops necessary to do that if they esed a HD DVD drive?

It is never about impossible to hack, but so damn time consuming that most won't bother.

[DonnyDC]

Originally Posted by PFC5

I know there are hackers out there that can find a way to do just about anything, but what percentage of people with this future 720 console would actually jump through all the hoops necessary to do that if they esed a HD DVD drive?

It is never about impossible to hack, but so damn time consuming that most won't bother.

99% of the people that play pirated Xbox 360 etc. games arent hackers. You just have to know somebody who knows somebody.. and you might have to take a trip to china town to get your system modified.
And for obtaining games all you need is internet access to your favourite bittorrent site. Or.. once again, a trip to china town.

You got to remember that up until the CD, every system used a propriety format. And that never stopped pirates. Even after the CD there was still systems like the Dreamcast and Gamecube that used propriety disc formats. Its nothing new and HDDVD wont be any different if its used.

[PFC5]

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

99% of the people that play pirated Xbox 360 etc. games arent hackers. You just have to know somebody who knows somebody.. and you might have to take a trip to china town to get your system modified.
And for obtaining games all you need is internet access to your favourite bittorrent site. Or.. once again, a trip to china town.

You got to remember that up until the CD, every system used a propriety format. And that never stopped pirates. Even after the CD there was still systems like the Dreamcast and Gamecube that used propriety disc formats. Its nothing new and HDDVD wont be any different if its used.

But was is the percentage of OWNERS who get the hack done and get pirated games?

Nothing can stop it completely, but only BD+ tried to claim this, and also failed at that. It is to stop widespread hacking/pirating that is the goal, as a deterrent. The more stumbling blocks you put in place, the less number of people will bother to steal.

Does it make sense to leave your home unlocked? How about your car? Crooks can still get in and steal, but they are more likely to go for the unlocked house/car to steal just because it is easier.

[Dare]

Originally Posted by PFC5

I know there are hackers out there that can find a way to do just about anything, but what percentage of people with this future 720 console would actually jump through all the hoops necessary to do that if they esed a HD DVD drive?

It is never about impossible to hack, but so damn time consuming that most won't bother.

You can actually buy a kit to mod your own box. The hackers make all of the electronics and instructions you would need, and they make it easy to do it yourself. Most kids have so much time on their hands, that the inconvenience isn't an issue. The cool factor is much more of a motivation.

If you're an adult, you should have enough money to be legit, and you shouldn't be playing video games anyway.

[railven]

Originally Posted by PFC5

I know there are hackers out there that can find a way to do just about anything, but what percentage of people with this future 720 console would actually jump through all the hoops necessary to do that if they esed a HD DVD drive?

It is never about impossible to hack, but so damn time consuming that most won't bother.

Originally Posted by DonnyDC

99% of the people that play pirated Xbox 360 etc. games arent hackers. You just have to know somebody who knows somebody.. and you might have to take a trip to china town to get your system modified.
And for obtaining games all you need is internet access to your favourite bittorrent site. Or.. once again, a trip to china town.

You got to remember that up until the CD, every system used a propriety format. And that never stopped pirates. Even after the CD there was still systems like the Dreamcast and Gamecube that used propriety disc formats. Its nothing new and HDDVD wont be any different if its used.

But that isn't very true either. Dile DonnyDC said, sometimes all it takes is a friend or a trip to a specialty shop.

I didn't know about the PS2 memory card tricks until today, and after spending about 20-30minutes reading a few tutorials I'm pretty confident I can start doing it. Before it was more of a hassle due to requiring a third party adapter to read your PS1/PS2 memory cards on your PC, but now Sony released an adapter for the PS3 that indirectly made this form of "modding/piracy" extremely easy.

Old cartridges have ROMs on the Internet, people didn't need to make a cartridge adapter for their PCs. And you can play emulators on pretty much any console (even PS1) with some software, no real hardware mods needed.

The people who pirate (or break systems for fun) are the ones that jump through all the hoops. They post their findings, tutorials, files, etc on the internet and then underground websites can pop up as databases with forums (like this) with people helping each other.

I can post a link, I won't, that can have everyone here with a PS3 playing pirated games before the end of the day (and please don't PM me I won't share it either.) It is just that simple.

A future system could be harder, and using a properietary drive won't necessarily make it harder. Again, you don't need to burn BDs to play pirated games on the PS3, odds are you won't for a system based on HD DVD either especially if it uses an HDD.

And, I don't pirate. But I do fool around with custom code for my PSP/PS3/Xbox1/PS2. I've come across a lot of different ways to "beat" the system. Some are extensive that require soldering mod chips, others are simple swap tricks that require you to build a "hatch" into your console. I remember the first PS3 swap tricks people were voiding their warranty on a $500/600 system and cutting off the top to make a flip door so they can swap discs when required.

And now almost 2 years later, you can do it with a few software apps. Amazing I say, amazing how these people (hackers) work.

[Dare]

The ones who are into it don't even do it to play games for free. They do it because hacking the box is the game. It's endless entertainment. See, the game consoles have something for everybody.