NEC Electronics Announces the World's First Single-Chip LSI for Blu-ray Disc Players

Lee Stewart · 08-05-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyal

Is this right? They sold 2.2 million SA BD players? I do have to agree that chips like these will help lower the price.

You believe they sold 2M BD SAL's last year?

They sold 2M BD "devices" - that includes all PC products but not the PS3.

**PFC5** · 08-05-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Prices are already cheaper now on BD players than they were during the Q4 sales of last year. This year will be even better. As I mentioned earlier, Wal-mart carries BD players for $289 and Best Buy for $279 without a sale. I don't think anyone expects Blu-Ray players to outsell DVD players anytime soon. That is a pointless argument. But the fact remains that prices have really fallen from where we were last year, and it looks like this trend will continue.

Not when the name brand BD players were selling for around $300.00. You really cannot compare selling a Insignia BD player for $20.00 less compared to a Sony S300, Samsung 1400, or the Sharp 20u.

I do agree that BD player prices are dropping faster than I feared but not as much as I had hoped. Of course my hope was under $200.00 BD players by now but I knew that was unrealistic and a pipe dream.

Hopefully by the holidays we can get under $200.00 for a BD player as an entry model from a name brand, but even a 3rd tier brand would be welcome. Unless the royalty amount for a BD player get lowered I think the lowest a BD player can realistically ever go is about $100.00 since I think I remember the royalty fee is around $50.00 right now.

The faster the BD player prices drop, the better chance for mainstream adoption and the more new BD replication plants/lines and then the greater the number of titles we will get. This kind of Large Scale Integration will help this happen sooner I think.

crazyal · 08-05-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You believe they sold 2M BD SAL's last year?

They sold 2M BD "devices" - that includes all PC products but not the PS3.

That was kind of my point. Why include PC drives or the PS3 since neither will get this chip.

ack_bak · 08-05-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Not when the name brand BD players were selling for around $300.00. You really cannot compare selling a Insignia BD player for $20.00 less compared to a Sony S300, Samsung 1400, or the Sharp 20u.

I was referring to the recent Wal-Mart sale when you could pick up the Samsung BD 1500 for $349 and receive a $100 gift card. Same with the PS3 during the sale, $399 with a $100 GC. The Magnavox players were $298 with a $100 GC. It makes you wonder what Q4 sales will be like this year if we are seeing these prices in June.

Quote:

I do agree that BD player prices are dropping faster than I feared but not as much as I had hoped. Of course my hope was under $200.00 BD players by now but I knew that was unrealistic and a pipe dream.

I think it will be the holidays this year for sub $200 players.

Quote:

Hopefully by the holidays we can get under $200.00 for a BD player as an entry model from a name brand, but even a 3rd tier brand would be welcome. Unless the royalty amount for a BD player get lowered I think the lowest a BD player can realistically ever go is about $100.00 since I think I remember the royalty fee is around $50.00 right now.

If the Maganvox player was $298 in June with a $100 GC, we could see sales in Q4 for $150-199 easily for the Funai branded players and $249 or so for name brand players. Just plan on waiting in line

I am very impressed with the feedback on the Funai players on the owners threads at other forums. They use the Panasonic Uniphier chipset and a Sony drive. I would definitely grab a player for my other HDTV if they sell for $149-179 this year. May pick one up for my father-in-law as well.

Quote:

The faster the BD player prices drop, the better chance for mainstream adoption and the more new BD replication plants/lines and then the greater the number of titles we will get. This kind of Large Scale Integration will help this happen sooner I think.

Agreed. I still think 2009 will be the breakout year, but 2008 will be a year of growth and the year all major studios (and many smaller studios) really start to embrace Blu-Ray.

**kamspy** · 08-05-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You believe they sold 2M BD SAL's last year?

They sold 2M BD "devices" - that includes all PC products but not the PS3.

We can realistically say that NO ONE bought a BD drive as a storage medium in the US.

Gotta cut through the "Lee Speak" people. It's like BDA speak, only in standard definition.

2M+ BD playback devices were sold last year, not counting the PS3.

Don't forget that most BD drives for PCs aren't even writers.

MikeRox · 08-06-2008, 02:48 AM

You missed one Lee, retailers profits on the unit too. That can often be as much as 100% on top of all that you listed above.

Dare · 08-06-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Understood. I was simply pointing out that the price of BD drives has dropped and will continue to drop. As I mentioned retailers can get them for sub $100 and I suspect the parts to make them cannot cost much more than $50-70.

True. I do think BD-ROM drives are still overpriced, and have a long way to go, considering you can get a DVD-ROM drive for $20.

My dual format drive now costs half what I paid for it less than a year ago. I can get the BD burner version for that money now.

genufett · 08-06-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Hate to burst your balloon . . .

Toshiba has been selling the SpursEngine since June of this year.

Man, you just can't make up your mind. After all, you've been preaching "patience" in the SRT thread for days or even weeks, then you keep on saying there's stuff coming down the pike...yet it never does. Oh, and BTW, the launch was expected for July, no word on if it came off then or not, although apparently Toshiba has now told people not to expect them until this month...

Quote:

And all I see is a projected delivery date of the chips themselves - not the players that will contain them.

Apples to apples.

Since (as far as I can tell) Toshiba never really mentioned delivery of chips in samples, let alone volumes, we only have the one to go on. And of course, they've never even confirmed SRT players were coming, just laptops.

Apples to apples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You believe they sold 2M BD SAL's last year?

They sold 2M BD "devices" - that includes all PC products but not the PS3.

Actually, no the lines both directly before and after explicitly say "Blu-ray Disc player".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Here are your costs to get a BD player into a retailer:

1. Components - you can shrink the circuit board but you still have the BD drive with the expensive zoom lens assembly.

2. Assembly of above

3. Packaging of above

4. Shipping of above

5. Rotalties for all the different technologies that exist within a BD player.

Keep these in mind when you speculate about how low a BD player can be priced. No comparison to a DVD player.

No comparison? Please. Your pet SpursEngine has all of these as well. Hell, even DVD has the same costs as 2, 3, and 4.

Lee Stewart · 08-06-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genufett

Man, you just can't make up your mind. After all, you've been preaching "patience" in the SRT thread for days or even weeks, then you keep on saying there's stuff coming down the pike...yet it never does. Oh, and BTW, the launch was expected for July, no word on if it came off then or not, although apparently Toshiba has now told people not to expect them until this month...

You link a forum?

Quote:

Since (as far as I can tell) Toshiba never really mentioned delivery of chips in samples, let alone volumes, we only have the one to go on. And of course, they've never even confirmed SRT players were coming, just laptops.

Yep - just have to wait.

Quote:

Apples to apples.

Actually, no the lines both directly before and after explicitly say "Blu-ray Disc player".

? - you really think that BD sold over 2 million SAL players in 2007? Or you do just believe everything that you read?

Quote:

No comparison? Please. Your pet SpursEngine has all of these as well. Hell, even DVD has the same costs as 2, 3, and 4.

Ah - but it is the components themselves and the royalties that are truly different between a DVD player and a BD player.

And a SRT DVD player won't have additional royalties. Unless a CEM wants to license Toshiba's algorithum.

genufett · 08-06-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You link a forum?

Note the word "apparently"...

Quote:

Yep - just have to wait.

Wait, is it June, or do we wait? You keep on changing your answer.

Quote:

? - you really think that BD sold over 2 million SAL players in 2007? Or you do just believe everything that you read?

1) This is rich, coming from someone who refuses to accept any of the criticisms leveled at SRT.

2) How is that impossible? Toshiba themselves said 1m BD players had been sold in the US in 2007, and from what I've read, player adoption is higher than DVD was in Europe and Japan.

3) NEC was one of the original signatories of Toshiba's HD DVD announcement (although nothing came of it), and IIRC only recently members of the BDA. That doesn't give them a lot of incentive to inflate numbers, does it?

Quote:

Ah - but it is the components themselves and the royalties that are truly different between a DVD player and a BD player.

So the other stuff doesn't matter now? You've got more positions on what does and does not apply for all of this than the Kama Sutra.

Quote:

And a SRT DVD player won't have additional royalties. Unless a CEM wants to license Toshiba's algorithum.

So, SRT players don't have royalties, except for when they do? Another instant self-contradiction! The algorithms aren't separate from the hardware. One necessitates the other.

Or you do just believe everything that you read?

Lee Stewart · 08-06-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genufett

Note the word "apparently"...

You want me to accept that as proof?

Quote:

Wait, is it June, or do we wait? You keep on changing your answer.

I have "never changed my answer." Still waiting for a Toshiba SR DVD player as the media and Toshiba documents say.

Quote:

1) This is rich, coming from someone who refuses to accept any of the criticisms leveled at SRT.

My only "issue" is that of people shooting down SRT without ever seeing a SR DVD player. How can you shoot something down that is not available as a purchasable product?

This BS of; "well here is what it's going to look like" and they are using everything under the sun EXCEPT a Toshiba SR DVD player.

If when it arrives and it is nothing more than marketing hype - I will be the first one to condem it. But that isn't going to happen until I see it with my own eyes at my local B & M store.

Quote:

2) How is that impossible? Toshiba themselves said 1m BD players had been sold in the US in 2007, and from what I've read, player adoption is higher than DVD was in Europe and Japan.

Oh . the 2M is world wide and not not the USA. You know what . . . still BS.

Quote:

3) NEC was one of the original signatories of Toshiba's HD DVD announcement (although nothing came of it), and IIRC only recently members of the BDA. That doesn't give them a lot of incentive to inflate numbers, does it?

You don't think corporations don't "pad" their press releases in their favor? . . . . .

Quote:

So the other stuff doesn't matter now? You've got more positions on what does and does not apply for all of this than the Kama Sutra.

It seems you have missed the point. Those costs I listed are all the costs for a BD player. Some of them have to also be for a DVD player you know that - all you want to do is argue with me. I know that by you trying to put words in my mouth and claim I have "said" them.

Quote:

So, SRT players don't have royalties, except for when they do? Another instant self-contradiction! The algorithms aren't separate from the hardware. One necessitates the other.

Again you missed the point. There are no additional royalties for a SR DVD player because it is a DVD player with a fancy video processing chip on it. It is like an UP DVD player. Nothing extra is paid to the DVD Forum Licensing Corp.

And no - there are many algorithums that will produce SR. We have seen three already. So a CEM does not have to use Toshiba's algorithum. They can use someone elses if they feel it will produce like or better results and be less expensive.

Quote:

Or you do just believe everything that you read?

Well, I am having a hard time believing your posts.

genufett · 08-06-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

You want me to accept that as proof?

Quite the opposite, in that it's not meant to be definitive. Thus the "apparently" qualifier.

Quote:

I have "never changed my answer." Still waiting for a Toshiba SR DVD player as the media and Toshiba documents say.

One page ago you said, and I quote (for the second time):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Toshiba has been selling the SpursEngine since June of this year.

Tell me how that's not changing your answer.

Quote:

My only "issue" is that of people shooting down SRT without ever seeing a SR DVD player. How can you shoot something down that is not available as a purchasable product?

I'll just refer you back to your quote above.

Quote:

Oh . the 2M is world wide and not not the USA. You know what . . . still BS.

Whatever. Obvs you cherry-pick your sources, and refuse to believe any that don't fit your preconception. Based on your posting history, if NPD (or whoever) said it themselves, you'd discount as "propaganda". You obviously don't have the sales data, so if you don't trust anyone but yourself, then your point here is completely invalidated.

Quote:

You don't think corporations don't "pad" their press releases in their favor? . . . . .

You really don't read all the way through, do you. The point was that they're less likely to.

Quote:

It seems you have missed the point. Those costs I listed are all the costs for a BD player. Some of them have to also be for a DVD player you know that - all you want to do is argue with me. I know that by you trying to put words in my mouth and claim I have "said" them.

Hello? I'm posting the exact words you said...

If you want to claim that you're lying, be my guest.

Quote:

Again you missed the point. There are no additional royalties for a SR DVD player because it is a DVD player with a fancy video processing chip on it. It is like an UP DVD player. Nothing extra is paid to the DVD Forum Licensing Corp.

Nor did I ever say they did. Toshiba, though, is a different story...

Quote:

And no - there are many algorithums that will produce SR. We have seen three already. So a CEM does not have to use Toshiba's algorithum. They can use someone elses if they feel it will produce like or better results and be less expensive.

Where are these "other" non-Toshiba algorithms. And pray tell how SRT works with with the algorithms but not the hardware (or vice-versa).

Quote:

Well, I am having a hard time believing your posts.

Considering you have a hard time believing your own posts, I'm not surprised.

HD Goofnut · 08-06-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genufett

Quite the opposite, in that it's not meant to be definitive. Thus the "apparently" qualifier.
One page ago you said, and I quote (for the second time):
Tell me how that's not changing your answer.
I'll just refer you back to your quote above.
Whatever. Obvs you cherry-pick your sources, and refuse to believe any that don't fit your preconception. Based on your posting history, if NPD (or whoever) said it themselves, you'd discount as "propaganda". You obviously don't have the sales data, so if you don't trust anyone but yourself, then your point here is completely invalidated.
You really don't read all the way through, do you. The point was that they're less likely to.
Hello? I'm posting the exact words you said...

If you want to claim that you're lying, be my guest.
Nor did I ever say they did. Toshiba, though, is a different story...
Where are these "other" non-Toshiba algorithms. And pray tell how SRT works with with the algorithms but not the hardware (or vice-versa).
Considering you have a hard time believing your own posts, I'm not surprised.

Picking a fight is not going to get you anywhere genufett.

genufett · 08-06-2008, 12:42 PM

How am I the one picking the fight? I posted the article, he picks it apart based entirely on personal preference and then goes onto contradict himself several times. That's not my fault.

Nikopol · 08-06-2008, 12:48 PM

this isn't a "chat room". quote-fests are unreadable.

08-06-2008, 02:48 AM	#36
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08-06-2008, 12:42 PM	#44
genufett High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 226	How am I the one picking the fight? I posted the article, he picks it apart based entirely on personal preference and then goes onto contradict himself several times. That's not my fault.

08-06-2008, 12:48 PM	#45
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