How Sony Tried To Kill Toshiba's HD DVD

brianh · 07-30-2008, 07:10 AM

I know for a fact that Sony DID in fact pay WB $448 mill.

It's all water under the bridge now. WB (according to a source that I knew) was a VERY tough sell. And after they took the money, had alot of second thoughts. That's why I don't believe that after Wal-mart made their annoucement to drop hd dvd 6 months from Jan, it had to be over.

Toshiba just upped and wimped out. There's NO other way to put it.
Nothing about it was inevitable.
When WB put out their "we will manufacture based on demand" line, that was their reluctance coming to the surface. Then Toshiba quit.
Well, F* toshiba. Sony was EXTREMELY lucky to have them as their rival.
Toshiba is seemingly more interested in Super upconverting then they were with hd dvd.

Time to move on, tho really.

brianh · 07-30-2008, 07:15 AM

It amazed me and still amazes me that anyone who knows about this situation believes that blu-ray's win was good for HDM.

Like competition is a bad thing. ????? Like a monopoly from a company that spent 3 billion dollars to win is going to be good for consumers.
Why would a rational person believe such things? I know from talking to a Sony insider that their plans (when/if blu-ray takes off) are not exactly PRO consumer.

But the kool-aid drinkers believe what they like. Nothing new there.

And now I've read that Sony is directing their energies more toward downloading. So....was the format war a waste? LOL oh, man.

iDarren · 07-30-2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

It amazed me and still amazes me that anyone who knows about this situation believes that blu-ray's win was good for HDM.

Like competition is a bad thing. ????? Like a monopoly from a company that spent 3 billion dollars to win is going to be good for consumers.
Why would a rational person believe such things? I know from talking to a Sony insider that their plans (when/if blu-ray takes off) are not exactly PRO consumer.

SOMEONE had to eventually win. Competition is great - lets hope BD has a lot of competition to keep it honest.

Your talking about these sinister plans again. The same plans you were talking about many months ago, but wouldn't or couldn't tell us any solid details about. Are you going to share this information with us now?

Chris Gerhard · 07-30-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iDarren

SOMEONE had to eventually win. Competition is great - lets hope BD has a lot of competition to keep it honest.

Let's hope? All but a couple of major CE manufacturers are offering players and all studios are offering software. HD DVD had nothing to do with competition with one manufacturer.

Chris

Chris Gerhard · 07-30-2008, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

It amazed me and still amazes me that anyone who knows about this situation believes that blu-ray's win was good for HDM.

Like competition is a bad thing. ????? Like a monopoly from a company that spent 3 billion dollars to win is going to be good for consumers.
Why would a rational person believe such things? I know from talking to a Sony insider that their plans (when/if blu-ray takes off) are not exactly PRO consumer.

But the kool-aid drinkers believe what they like. Nothing new there.

And now I've read that Sony is directing their energies more toward downloading. So....was the format war a waste? LOL oh, man.

What a joke, only one format is great for competition, just look at DVD. Two formats drive consumers away and competition suffers, the market is too small to compete for.

Chris

brianh · 07-30-2008, 07:41 AM

Well after this situation ended with Toshiba quitting, I basically decided to to walk away from it out of disgust for Toshiba.

I had a talk with a very knowledgable Sony employee and I know some things that most people don't know.
Sony lost a HUGE enormous amount of money trying to beat hd dvd.
They almost went bankrupt. There's most to this story then most people even can imagine.

They have no intention of being proconsumer in the least. It's business and money is extremely tight.
They offered WB around 250 mill. WB said no. I think most people here already know that. Maybe not, whatever.
Then as a last ditch effort, Sony came back with $448 mill. It was a HUGE make or break offer. And much to the relief of Sony, WB bit.
But WB was a TOUGH customer. Here's the thing that I'll never forget and OH IT WAS SO CLOSE. WB ALMOST OPTED out of the deal!
They were seriously thinking of getting out of it. I heard about this RIGHT before Toshiba gave up. That's why it was SO terrible that Toshiba quit.
They were so close to winning. I'm not even sure THEY know how close they were.

Pricing will not be your friend when buying blu-ray movies. Netflix has already announced price increases.
Sony bled money very badly.
I think Toshiba was extremely naive about Sony. They figured sales would be enough. They were wrong. After the WB move, the sails went out Toshiba's sales. The last effort was the msrp cuts. But they were done after WB's move. If they had tried just a bit longer to keep hd dvd afloat, things might have ended differently.

I know WB isn't happy with bluray. They just made an announcement that Live titles wont see this year? How much you wanna bet that THEY were pissed Toshiba quit. Lots.

WB made a HUGE mistake. They know it. They knew it back then.
Toshiba doesn't give a sh*t about hd dvd.

And Sony needs to re-coup their titanic investment in bluray.
Their return on invenstment (ROI) isn't exactly turning heads.

I own a ps3, but for the good of consumers I hope blu-ray dies.
What Sony wants to do with it is kinda bordering on unethical.

But kudos to them for figuring out how to get so many posters on the internet to blindly believe they have good intentions. How you get so many people manipulated into thinking that way....you could teach seminars at college, I swear.
Sheep.

**bruceames** · 07-30-2008, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

So Sony put a Blu-ray movie in the PS3 box rather than pay Warner $500 million? Smart move, or does SuperXP still believe that Warner and Sony executives continue to lie, the big payoff was real?

Chris

Get real. Sony doesn't have to give WB $500 mil in cash, it was probably subsidizes (like royalty fees, replication costs and advertising) that would total that amount (or similar to) over several years. Sony doesn't have to lie, and Warner can get the value of what going Blu-ray exclusive meant to Sony as any business would do.

brianh · 07-30-2008, 07:51 AM

I think that for all the talk and emotion and everything about these 2 formats, downloading will kill everything else.
Just like downloading music. Much ado about nothing, the saying is.

I mean it's a little ridiculous that things were the way they were back then, isn't it? And in the end.....none of it matters. Sony is showing signs of favoring downloads.
Everybody on this planet loves downlaoding things anyway. Can people tell the difference between a 720p download and a blu ray disc? Hardly.

What about when 1080p downloads become common. When Sony wants that to happen, it will. Say goodbye to all that emotional !!!!!!!!!!! talk about optical media.

What will we talk about then for a year? Microsoft's Live downloads vs Sony's Home downloads.

It sucks but that's billion dollar business conglomerates for ya.

iDarren · 07-30-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

But kudos to them for figuring out how to get so many posters on the internet to blindly believe they have good intentions. How you get so many people manipulated into thinking that way....you could teach seminars at college, I swear.
Sheep.

Does anybody really think they have "good intentions", like a desire to make our lives truly better, or save us money? I don't think so. I think most modestly intelligent people know taht they are just out to make money.

I mean they aren't monks or communists, they are capitalists

brianh · 07-30-2008, 08:00 AM

Well I'm sure the usual suspects will come on and say I'm full of sh*t or whatever.
Blu-ray is the wonder product for home theater.

I think most people who question me are people who have never been told secretive things. You don't get info and then tell the whole internet, ok?
Well, you can, but you won't get it for much longer if you do.

Confidentiality, ok?
The one thing that I have to say is that this whole hd dvd vs blu ray thing was a fluid situation every day it was happening. No one really knew wtf was going to happen.
Sony was at the VERY edge of losing everything because of this bluray format.

Dare · 07-30-2008, 08:37 AM

Maybe I should just ignore this thread, but can somebody explain why any of this matters anymore? Who cares what these companies did to each other? And what are you gonna do about it?

If you want high definition on a disc, get yourself a Blu-ray. If you don't want Blu-ray, get comfortable with not having high def on a disc. Who knows, maybe you don't give a rat's ass about high definition, and that's totally cool. Just go about your life like everybody else. But Blu-ray is what is being offered, and that's it.

Advocating for Toshiba isn't going to change anything. Besides, maybe you should reconsider who you advocate. Toshiba wasn't serious about HDM. Judging by their hair-trigger surrender, they were just kidding. Who needs em?

tcarcio · 07-30-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

What a joke, only one format is great for competition, just look at DVD. Two formats drive consumers away and competition suffers, the market is too small to compete for.

Chris

Ha,Ha..You must work for Sony.......

brianh · 07-30-2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare

Maybe I should just ignore this thread, but can somebody explain why any of this matters anymore? Who cares what these companies did to each other? And what are you gonna do about it?

If you want high definition on a disc, get yourself a Blu-ray. If you don't want Blu-ray, get comfortable with not having high def on a disc. Who knows, maybe you don't give a rat's ass about high definition, and that's totally cool. Just go about your life like everybody else. But Blu-ray is what is being offered, and that's it.

Advocating for Toshiba isn't going to change anything. Besides, maybe you should reconsider who you advocate. Toshiba wasn't serious about HDM. Judging by their hair-trigger surrender, they were just kidding. Who needs em?

Exactly.

brianh · 07-30-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcarcio

Ha,Ha..You must work for Sony.......

I think he loves Sony more then do the people who work for them.

iDarren · 07-30-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianh

Well I'm sure the usual suspects will come on and say I'm full of sh*t or whatever.
Blu-ray is the wonder product for home theater.

I think most people who question me are people who have never been told secretive things. You don't get info and then tell the whole internet, ok?
Well, you can, but you won't get it for much longer if you do.

Confidentiality, ok?
The one thing that I have to say is that this whole hd dvd vs blu ray thing was a fluid situation every day it was happening. No one really knew wtf was going to happen.
Sony was at the VERY edge of losing everything because of this bluray format.

And you don't believe everything you hear on the net either. Put youself in our shoes, and imagine it was someone else telling you this. You would doubt.

Plus why are you painting such over the top extremes? Who is saying blu ray is the wonder product for the ages? Ot that Sony is "wonderful"? No one. This makes you seem all the more questionable where reliability is concerned. You sound like just another extremest painting an extremely bleak almost comical conspiracy theory picture.

07-30-2008, 08:37 AM	#26
Dare I moon you. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 4,470	Maybe I should just ignore this thread, but can somebody explain why any of this matters anymore? Who cares what these companies did to each other? And what are you gonna do about it? If you want high definition on a disc, get yourself a Blu-ray. If you don't want Blu-ray, get comfortable with not having high def on a disc. Who knows, maybe you don't give a rat's ass about high definition, and that's totally cool. Just go about your life like everybody else. But Blu-ray is what is being offered, and that's it. Advocating for Toshiba isn't going to change anything. Besides, maybe you should reconsider who you advocate. Toshiba wasn't serious about HDM. Judging by their hair-trigger surrender, they were just kidding. Who needs em? __________________ LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray & HD DVD ROM Drive 58 31

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07-30-2008, 07:10 AM	#16
brianh High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,023	I know for a fact that Sony DID in fact pay WB $448 mill. It's all water under the bridge now. WB (according to a source that I knew) was a VERY tough sell. And after they took the money, had alot of second thoughts. That's why I don't believe that after Wal-mart made their annoucement to drop hd dvd 6 months from Jan, it had to be over. Toshiba just upped and wimped out. There's NO other way to put it. Nothing about it was inevitable. When WB put out their "we will manufacture based on demand" line, that was their reluctance coming to the surface. Then Toshiba quit. Well, F* toshiba. Sony was EXTREMELY lucky to have them as their rival. Toshiba is seemingly more interested in Super upconverting then they were with hd dvd. Time to move on, tho really.

07-30-2008, 07:15 AM	#17
brianh High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,023	It amazed me and still amazes me that anyone who knows about this situation believes that blu-ray's win was good for HDM. Like competition is a bad thing. ????? Like a monopoly from a company that spent 3 billion dollars to win is going to be good for consumers. Why would a rational person believe such things? I know from talking to a Sony insider that their plans (when/if blu-ray takes off) are not exactly PRO consumer. But the kool-aid drinkers believe what they like. Nothing new there. And now I've read that Sony is directing their energies more toward downloading. So....was the format war a waste? LOL oh, man.

07-30-2008, 07:41 AM	#21
brianh High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,023	Well after this situation ended with Toshiba quitting, I basically decided to to walk away from it out of disgust for Toshiba. I had a talk with a very knowledgable Sony employee and I know some things that most people don't know. Sony lost a HUGE enormous amount of money trying to beat hd dvd. They almost went bankrupt. There's most to this story then most people even can imagine. They have no intention of being proconsumer in the least. It's business and money is extremely tight. They offered WB around 250 mill. WB said no. I think most people here already know that. Maybe not, whatever. Then as a last ditch effort, Sony came back with $448 mill. It was a HUGE make or break offer. And much to the relief of Sony, WB bit. But WB was a TOUGH customer. Here's the thing that I'll never forget and OH IT WAS SO CLOSE. WB ALMOST OPTED out of the deal! They were seriously thinking of getting out of it. I heard about this RIGHT before Toshiba gave up. That's why it was SO terrible that Toshiba quit. They were so close to winning. I'm not even sure THEY know how close they were. Pricing will not be your friend when buying blu-ray movies. Netflix has already announced price increases. Sony bled money very badly. I think Toshiba was extremely naive about Sony. They figured sales would be enough. They were wrong. After the WB move, the sails went out Toshiba's sales. The last effort was the msrp cuts. But they were done after WB's move. If they had tried just a bit longer to keep hd dvd afloat, things might have ended differently. I know WB isn't happy with bluray. They just made an announcement that Live titles wont see this year? How much you wanna bet that THEY were pissed Toshiba quit. Lots. WB made a HUGE mistake. They know it. They knew it back then. Toshiba doesn't give a sh*t about hd dvd. And Sony needs to re-coup their titanic investment in bluray. Their return on invenstment (ROI) isn't exactly turning heads. I own a ps3, but for the good of consumers I hope blu-ray dies. What Sony wants to do with it is kinda bordering on unethical. But kudos to them for figuring out how to get so many posters on the internet to blindly believe they have good intentions. How you get so many people manipulated into thinking that way....you could teach seminars at college, I swear. Sheep.

07-30-2008, 07:51 AM	#23
brianh High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,023	I think that for all the talk and emotion and everything about these 2 formats, downloading will kill everything else. Just like downloading music. Much ado about nothing, the saying is. I mean it's a little ridiculous that things were the way they were back then, isn't it? And in the end.....none of it matters. Sony is showing signs of favoring downloads. Everybody on this planet loves downlaoding things anyway. Can people tell the difference between a 720p download and a blu ray disc? Hardly. What about when 1080p downloads become common. When Sony wants that to happen, it will. Say goodbye to all that emotional !!!!!!!!!!! talk about optical media. What will we talk about then for a year? Microsoft's Live downloads vs Sony's Home downloads. It sucks but that's billion dollar business conglomerates for ya.

07-30-2008, 08:00 AM	#25
brianh High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,023	Well I'm sure the usual suspects will come on and say I'm full of sh*t or whatever. Blu-ray is the wonder product for home theater. I think most people who question me are people who have never been told secretive things. You don't get info and then tell the whole internet, ok? Well, you can, but you won't get it for much longer if you do. Confidentiality, ok? The one thing that I have to say is that this whole hd dvd vs blu ray thing was a fluid situation every day it was happening. No one really knew wtf was going to happen. Sony was at the VERY edge of losing everything because of this bluray format.