Why did HD DVD lose the Format War!!!

Super XP · 07-23-2008, 10:53 PM

Well HD DVD is not completely dead, its making way in China under a different name. But anyway, it looks to me the DVD Forum will never support Blu-Ray Disc. They are still passing and approaving specs for the North American HD DVD format.

If we all want Blu-Ray to succeed they need to make some sort of deal with the DVD Forum. They also have to drop player prices, not just sell cheap china BD players, I am talking about brand names like Panasonic & Sharp, they have to drop their player prices as much as possible. If and when this happens maybe Studios will take Blu-Ray serious enough to start releasing more BD movies. I want HDM regardless of format so long as its the right price and it has a chance in success.

DVD will only get stronger when Super Resolution DVD players are released in December of 2008 several weeks before the Holiday's.

They are going to market these super players as Hi Def players that take SD DVD's turn them into HD "DVD's".

The BDA I admit did a great job last year 2007 for the Holiday season by giving away free BD players with HDTV purchases. What can they do this time around? They are up against a MONSTER of a format called "DVD".

anythingwt · 07-23-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

They are going to market these super players as Hi Def players that take SD DVD's turn them into HD "DVD's".

Great, so they intend on misleading the consumer. That's the right thing to do

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

The BDA I admit did a great job last year 2007 for the Holiday season by giving away free BD players with HDTV purchases. What can they do this time around? They are up against a MONSTER of a format called "DVD".

What will the BDA do? They will put players on sale, just like everything else around the holiday season. And them being against this monster format "DVD" is no big deal. DVD is SD. Consumers want HD. HD is the future in television and movies, and DVD cannot accomplish that. Don't get me wrong, it will be a long time, possibly never, that BD takes over DVD in sales, but BD isn't going anywhere. These super resolution players are going to go the route of HD VMD. DVD is old and burnt out. People want something new and better. BDs, with their great picture, great sound, and cool looking little blue boxes, will accomplish the new and better than consumers are always looking for.

**PFC5** · 07-23-2008, 11:22 PM

I think priced "right" and if SRT players do a good job (read enough better compared to regular upscalers) for that price they could do pretty good. The issue is WILL they be enough better at not too much of a price premium over regular upscalers to make inroads?

The real wild card is how well Toshiba promotes it? We all went over how they failed with HD DVD in many ways, so that is up in the air also.

I think there is a market for them in players but even more for this tech in HDTVs IMO.

anythingwt · 07-23-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I think priced "right" and if SRT players do a good job (read enough better compared to regular upscalers) for that price they could do pretty good. The issue is WILL they be enough better at not too much of a price premium over regular upscalers to make inroads?

The real wild card is how well Toshiba promotes it? We all went over how they failed with HD DVD in many ways, so that is up in the air also.

I think there is a market for them in players but even more for this tech in HDTVs IMO.

I agree that they have potential. If they work well and are marketed properly, they will simply take the place of upconverting DVD players, and work better too. Even us videophiles have DVD collections, so they could even benefit you and I(but will they make a DVD look better than an HD DVD player can make a DVD look?)

Either way, at the end of the day, its still not technically HD. I think consumers are sold on the blu-ray idea, and are just waiting until A)they have the equipment to take advantage or BD, or B)prices go down enough for them to be able to afford it.

**PFC5** · 07-24-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

I agree that they have potential. If they work well and are marketed properly, they will simply take the place of upconverting DVD players, and work better too. Even us videophiles have DVD collections, so they could even benefit you and I(but will they make a DVD look better than an HD DVD player can make a DVD look?)

Either way, at the end of the day, its still not technically HD. I think consumers are sold on the blu-ray idea, and are just waiting until A)they have the equipment to take advantage or BD, or B)prices go down enough for them to be able to afford it.

I think the HDTV requirement, much higher cost over SD DVD, and current very limited catalog of titles (compared to SD DVD) will limit BD's appeal until those issues improve. Time will solve most of them, but how much time is the question IMO.

If SRT improves on SD signals and is put in either HDTVs and/or in a STB along with SRT players we will all benefit if the price is right. Many have pretty large catalogs of SD DVD titles, and I know I do so ther is a lot of "potential" benefit with this technology, but until it comes out (other than a laptop) we will have to wait and see.

Nikopol · 07-24-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Omega_Man

First question: Do we here, really miss the alleged format "War," so much that we still need to rehash it over and over?

[...]

That is one, big "Affirmative!"

Forum will be renamed, so that any potentially aggravating topics may be dicussed here in the smackdown forum. I say we should just rename it to that anyway, would be the honest thing to do.

EDIT:
just saw the new description of the forum, so nevermind

ack_bak · 07-24-2008, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare

And in spite of all that, Blu-ray still has barely registered.

In five days, The Dark Knight has made more money at the box office than all of the money every title combined on the entire Blu-ray format has made in the accumulated time since January 1, 2008 to today (July 23, 2008).

That's just one movie.

Indy 4 made half again more at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Hancock has made as much at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Kung-Fu Panda has made as much at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Iron Man made half again more at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Wall-E will have made as much at the box office in a few days as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

And there are a lot more movies out there. I wouldn't be too proud of Blu-ray for beating HD-DVD. They were two gnats fighting on an elephant's butt.

Keep in mind that for most movies the studios are still in the negative for covering the cost of making and marketing their movies after releasing them in the theaters. That is why packaged media (DVD+BD) along with downloads and VOD are so essential to the studios. $200m, 500m, 700m, etc may not sound like much money but it could be the difference in studios losing money and making money when you combine all their costs. And Blu-Ray (along with DD, and VOD) are growing.

Movie costs (making, marketing, releasing movies) have skyrocketed in recent years, and I know Warner has gone on record stating that they will be cutting back on the number of theatrical releases they will be releasing and will be focusing more on Blu-Ray and VOD revenue streams.

Super XP · 07-24-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

Great, so they intend on misleading the consumer. That's the right thing to do

How are they misleading the consumer if they can get SD content looking like HD at the right price? I see this as a big positive, the last thing people want is to re-buy movies for a different format. I can see DVD players up-converting to 1080p being misleading especially when the package states 1080p Hi Def. But these players are just regular up-converting DVD players. If and when Toshiba releases SRT DVD players they should be much more than just up-converters, they should physically clean up the PQ in real time to give you 960p, then take that 960p and up-convert it to full 1080p. Many movies will work great with these new DVD players especially the DVD movies that have been taken from the HD master.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

What will the BDA do? They will put players on sale, just like everything else around the holiday season. And them being against this monster format "DVD" is no big deal. DVD is SD. Consumers want HD. HD is the future in television and movies, and DVD cannot accomplish that. Don't get me wrong, it will be a long time, possibly never, that BD takes over DVD in sales, but BD isn't going anywhere. These super resolution players are going to go the route of HD VMD. DVD is old and burnt out. People want something new and better. BDs, with their great picture, great sound, and cool looking little blue boxes, will accomplish the new and better than consumers are always looking for.

How many DVD players sell? How many DVD movies sell? DVD is not going anywhere anytime soon. DVD is very popular and people just want to watch movies. Ever since HD DVD lost the format war Blu-Ray has been doing really bad. Where is that huge jump in BD sales everybody was talking about if and when HD DVD was ever to go under? Is the Playstation 3 owners not buying BD movies anymore? The PS3 was the only factor in BD's succees putting aside all the Sony pay-offs.

I respect your points though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Many have pretty large catalogs of SD DVD titles, and I know I do so ther is a lot of "potential" benefit with this technology, but until it comes out (other than a laptop) we will have to wait and see.

Toshiba was stupid to release this on a laptop. Aren’t laptops supposed to be great on battery life? I am sure the Spurs Engine will suck the life out of them. Correct me if I am wrong. But they could have always done something with the Desktop PC imo if anything. But wait Toshiba is not in the business for desktop PC’s excluding Hard Drives I suppose.

I have an idea, why doesn’t Toshiba join forces with AMD/ATI to introduce the CELL into the All In Wonder Series of graphics cards?

hatt · 07-24-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Getting all defensive, I see.. so very typical.

So you found the playbook now? Every post make some comment before it so you don't have to say anything of substance later. Good work, this works wonder for others around here. Carry on.

HD Goofnut · 07-24-2008, 08:57 AM

Am I the only one getting tired of reading this petty arguing? From what I can see most of it is being instigated by hatt and bmore.

MikeRox · 07-24-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

DVD will only get stronger when Super Resolution DVD players are released in December of 2008 several weeks before the Holiday's.

Indeed, I picture millions rushing out and buying DVDs to replace their um... DVDs?.... wait... hmmmm

That'll certainly boost the market

awol · 07-24-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I think priced "right" and if SRT players do a good job (read enough better compared to regular upscalers) for that price they could do pretty good. The issue is WILL they be enough better at not too much of a price premium over regular upscalers to make inroads?

The real wild card is how well Toshiba promotes it? We all went over how they failed with HD DVD in many ways, so that is up in the air also.

I think there is a market for them in players but even more for this tech in HDTVs IMO.

I don't see the SRT players making much of a dent. I see the BDA paying a premium to all the companies who will promote BluRay in their stores as the option for HDM on HDTVs. Best Buy people may not work on commission, but I'd wager that they do get "SPIF" pay, selling a particular product results in a small bonus. Or they will have internal contests by store for the top sales people.

bmore · 07-24-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Am I the only one getting tired of reading this petty arguing? From what I can see most of it is being instigated by hatt and bmore.

Riiight.

Look at who is at the center of just about every argument.

Look who is currently in a war of words with Railven, hatt (yesterday), type A, etc.

look at new users, (schill4toshiba) that join this forum to specifically target a certain poster.

look at the person who constantly threatens and insults the intelligence of other posters, and has a track record of doing so.

look who recently called kamspy a total schmuck.

if you find out those answers I think you will see who the real problem is.

Still find it necessary to call out the "villains"?

MikeRox · 07-24-2008, 09:57 AM

Christ, not this again

HD Goofnut · 07-24-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Christ, not this again

I know it Mike, just when we thought it was nice and quiet bmore comes back from his "vacation" with a stick up his a@@ and hatt seems to be on a permanent period.

07-23-2008, 10:53 PM	#121
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,776	Well HD DVD is not completely dead, its making way in China under a different name. But anyway, it looks to me the DVD Forum will never support Blu-Ray Disc. They are still passing and approaving specs for the North American HD DVD format. If we all want Blu-Ray to succeed they need to make some sort of deal with the DVD Forum. They also have to drop player prices, not just sell cheap china BD players, I am talking about brand names like Panasonic & Sharp, they have to drop their player prices as much as possible. If and when this happens maybe Studios will take Blu-Ray serious enough to start releasing more BD movies. I want HDM regardless of format so long as its the right price and it has a chance in success. DVD will only get stronger when Super Resolution DVD players are released in December of 2008 several weeks before the Holiday's. They are going to market these super players as Hi Def players that take SD DVD's turn them into HD "DVD's". The BDA I admit did a great job last year 2007 for the Holiday season by giving away free BD players with HDTV purchases. What can they do this time around? They are up against a MONSTER of a format called "DVD". __________________ Toshiba Regza 46" HDTV (46RF350U) LCD 1080p/24p Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Loudspeaker Series DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10

07-23-2008, 11:22 PM	#123
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,390	I think priced "right" and if SRT players do a good job (read enough better compared to regular upscalers) for that price they could do pretty good. The issue is WILL they be enough better at not too much of a price premium over regular upscalers to make inroads? The real wild card is how well Toshiba promotes it? We all went over how they failed with HD DVD in many ways, so that is up in the air also. I think there is a market for them in players but even more for this tech in HDTVs IMO. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

07-24-2008, 08:57 AM	#130
HD Goofnut The Official HDF Reviewer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mississippi, U.S.A. Your resident Dune, Star Wars, and war film expert Age: 27 Posts: 6,852	Am I the only one getting tired of reading this petty arguing? From what I can see most of it is being instigated by hatt and bmore. __________________ My Review Setup Sanyo DP46848 46" 1080p LCD Onkyo TX-SR606 7.1 DirecTV HR21-100 HD DVR Onkyo SKS-HT540 7.1 System LG BH200 Super Blu Toshiba HD-A20 Sony 40 GB PS3 (Now with Netflix streaming!) 156~206~My Movie Collection Latest Review: *Men in Black* Be sure to check out the Blu-ray Review Request Thread

07-24-2008, 09:57 AM	#134
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,417	Christ, not this again __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

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