Why did HD DVD lose the Format War!!!

**bruceames** · 07-23-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigill

I'm not saying that past events should not be discussed. All HD topic's should be discussed be it past, present or future. I just feel if more people were to embrace the format that has survived we may have a better chance of pushing it forward enough to enable it to be a mainstream technology.

Yeah, I see it's still early for many to be ready to discuss the format war in past tense. It's still quite a sensitive topic, but anyway I appreciate the comments of those here who did want to talk about it.

Super XP · 07-23-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigill

I'm not saying that past events should not be discussed. All HD topic's should be discussed be it past, present or future. I just feel if more people were to embrace the format that has survived we may have a better chance of pushing it forward enough to enable it to be a mainstream technology.

How did Blu-Ray survive? Looking at the overall facts they survived by viciously manipulating sales figures in their favour along with big pay-offs to studios and retailers along with false advertising and misleading the public in believing Blu-Ray was the better choice where in fact they were not.

It would have been OK to advertise your product the best way possible to attract people, but don't lie to people just to make sales.

Is that a format you would like to buy movies for? Anyway you know what I mean by my above post

Give me a Blu-Ray player for $150 with all the features my HD-A35 has and I will buy it. Until then, I'll stick with HD DVD and all the $5 movies I can buy

MikeRox · 07-23-2008, 12:47 PM

lmao, the price you are prepared to pay dropped again?

Wasn't it "a full featured BD player must be below $299" back in November? Then $199 in the firesales. Now we're down to $150. Are you dropping how much you'd pay in line with how much the value of your A35 is dropping?

PFC5 · 07-23-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Didn't the WB titles also start to become more even in their sales? I'm sure BladeRunner Debuted at near 1:1 ratio, and handful of titles were believed to have sold slightly better on HD DVD. Harry Potter was only 1:1.2 in favour of Blu-ray at first.

There were definite signs of a "turnaround" being possible. I also think there is circumstantial evidence to suggest Toshiba thought they had something big to announce at CES.

It's possible what Super XP posted was true (that plonker at HD Now or whatever it was said it back in January) however it's also possible that the very "OMG 2 STUDIOS DUMPING BLU RAY!" email thing he also sent could be what alerted the BDA into securing said studios before announcement was made.

I always wondered if THIS was how Sony found out about Fox/Warner instead of a "mole".

How hilariously ironic would it be if the very same guy(s) that were the fanboy kings of HD DVD caused the blunder of losing Warner & not getting Fox to change?

Dare · 07-23-2008, 12:49 PM

News flash: Corporations did screwy things, and messed up early adopters. In other news, dog bit man. Film at 11.

anythingwt · 07-23-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare

News flash: Corporations did screwy things, and messed up early adopters. In other news, dog bit man. Film at 11.

If the studios didn't do screwy things, it would have messed up early adopters even more. More people would have invested even more money in their format of choice, and lost even more when the opposite winner of the war was declared.

My stance would be exactly the same if HD DVD won the war. I'd proudly support HD DVD, and move forward knowing that was the primary HDM format. If HD DVD had been smart and paid studios off for support, they would have possibly had a chance. They just simply didn't make the right business moves to win the war. Their huge mistake.

Dare · 07-23-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anythingwt

If the studios didn't do screwy things, it would have messed up early adopters even more. More people would have invested even more money in their format of choice, and lost even more when the opposite winner of the war was declared.

My stance would be exactly the same if HD DVD won the war. I'd proudly support HD DVD, and move forward knowing that was the primary HDM format. If HD DVD had been smart and paid studios off for support, they would have possibly had a chance. They just simply didn't make the right business moves to win the war. Their huge mistake.

I don't think so. If things were left alone, dual format players would have taken over and everyone would have had access to everything. We were probably only a year or two away from cheap dual players. The two technologies are so similar, a hardware merge was pretty much inevitable. Then the studios could have used any format they wanted. It would be as relevant as whether they used AVC or VC-1.

Stew4HD · 07-23-2008, 03:28 PM

Not that it matters anymore but.. I find it hilarious that: HD DVD fans believe in this theory/fact and BD supports scoff at it.

BD was not kicking HD DVD's ass. BD's numbers were higher but in raw and real numbers, it wasn't much at all. Sure, the PS3 sold a lot more but disc sales never dictated such a commanding lead. I will always believe Sony/BDA was behind the sudden announcements by WM, BB and others to go BD exclusive within a few days of each other using the same verbage "the consumer has chosen".. blah blah.

Sure, it is water under the bridge but I do find it funny that the subject is pretty much split right down the middle...

again, it doesn't matter at this point.

ack_bak · 07-23-2008, 03:29 PM

It is not rocket science or magic suitcases full of money:
- Blu-Ray had the support of the majority of CE's. HD DVD has basically Toshiba making SAL players and selling them at a loss forcing other CE's to stay away.
- Blu-Ray had more studio support.
- Blu-Ray typically had better retail support.
- Blu-Ray had the PS3 going for it.
- Blu-Ray had access to more blockbuster movies.
- HD DVD software prices were too high typically
- HD DVD's marketing was horrendous.
- Did I mention Blu-Ray had the PS3 supporting it?
- Software sales were nearly 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray.

And if it did come down to payoffs from Sony then shame on Toshiba. They should have played hardball and stepped up to the plate with even bigger checks...

I started off HD DVD and then became pro Blu-Ray after I bought my first player and saw that the quickest end to the format war pointed to Blu-Ray. The writing was on the wall for Toshiba the minute the PS3 started selling..

Bravestime · 07-23-2008, 03:41 PM

Blu-ray won, HD-DVD lost,,,,,,let's move on!

Stew4HD · 07-23-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

Blu-ray won, HD-DVD lost,,,,,,let's move on!

For some, BD didn't win... I have other terms for it but why bother?

Louigi222 · 07-23-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravestime

Blu-ray won, HD-DVD lost,,,,,,let's move on!

Actually....they both lost. Now I'm ready to move on. Dish Network...bring on those 1080p VODS.

iDarren · 07-23-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I always wondered if THIS was how Sony found out about Fox/Warner instead of a "mole".

How hilariously ironic would it be if the very same guy(s) that were the fanboy kings of HD DVD caused the blunder of losing Warner & not getting Fox to change?

SuperXP caused HD DVD to lose the format war

PFC5 · 07-23-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigill

Indeed Toshiba where relying on the fact that super cheap player's would save the day for them but it didnt happen. No matter how low they sold there HD DVD players for , they didn't gain the momentum required to challenge BD sale's.

I don't think that is exactly right.

I think Toshiba had Warner/Fox changing their support to HD DVD and so they calculated (wrong) that they would not have to lower prices so fast during the holidays. At the same time, the BD mfg were offering some players during a 2+ month holiday season for only $300.00, that quickly went back up (almost a month after the holidays

).

Toshiba could have kept the pressure on IMO but they chose not to do that, which tells me that HD DVD player prices would not have continued to drop as fast as they did in the past if they won either.

I do believe that IF Warner/Fox rolled, then Disney would not have been far behind also. That would have left Sony basically alone like they were with Beta only with software/movies instead of hardware.

To those who keep saying that BD one all those weeks in 2007, what would have happened IF all studios supported BOTH formats for the first year? Do you STILL think BD would have won those weeks with the higher prices for players?

Nearly everyone agrees that HD DVD being in the game and the format war bought prices for players down faster than they likely would have gone so be thankful the war existed.

Dare · 07-23-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack_bak

It is not rocket science or magic suitcases full of money:
- Blu-Ray had the support of the majority of CE's. HD DVD has basically Toshiba making SAL players and selling them at a loss forcing other CE's to stay away.
- Blu-Ray had more studio support.
- Blu-Ray typically had better retail support.
- Blu-Ray had the PS3 going for it.
- Blu-Ray had access to more blockbuster movies.
- HD DVD software prices were too high typically
- HD DVD's marketing was horrendous.
- Did I mention Blu-Ray had the PS3 supporting it?
- Software sales were nearly 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray.

And if it did come down to payoffs from Sony then shame on Toshiba. They should have played hardball and stepped up to the plate with even bigger checks...

I started off HD DVD and then became pro Blu-Ray after I bought my first player and saw that the quickest end to the format war pointed to Blu-Ray. The writing was on the wall for Toshiba the minute the PS3 started selling..

And in spite of all that, Blu-ray still has barely registered.

In five days, The Dark Knight has made more money at the box office than all of the money every title combined on the entire Blu-ray format has made in the accumulated time since January 1, 2008 to today (July 23, 2008).

That's just one movie.

Indy 4 made half again more at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Hancock has made as much at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Kung-Fu Panda has made as much at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Iron Man made half again more at the box office as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

Wall-E will have made as much at the box office in a few days as the entire Blu-ray format in 2008.

And there are a lot more movies out there. I wouldn't be too proud of Blu-ray for beating HD-DVD. They were two gnats fighting on an elephant's butt.

07-23-2008, 12:47 PM	#63
MikeRox Connoisseur of Fine Games Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 15,756	lmao, the price you are prepared to pay dropped again? Wasn't it "a full featured BD player must be below $299" back in November? Then $199 in the firesales. Now we're down to $150. Are you dropping how much you'd pay in line with how much the value of your A35 is dropping? __________________ Currently Playing: Xenoblade Chronicles, Ridge Racer 3D, DIRT 3

07-23-2008, 12:49 PM	#65
Dare I moon you. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 4,523	News flash: Corporations did screwy things, and messed up early adopters. In other news, dog bit man. Film at 11. __________________ LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray & HD DVD ROM Drive 58 Lost count

07-23-2008, 03:41 PM	#70
Bravestime Supporter of HiDef Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Aiken, SC Age: 56 Posts: 4,510	Blu-ray won, HD-DVD lost,,,,,,let's move on! __________________ Life is Short, Watch a Movie

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07-23-2008, 03:28 PM	#68
Stew4HD SD HURTS MY EYES Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tejas Baby Posts: 9,989	Not that it matters anymore but.. I find it hilarious that: HD DVD fans believe in this theory/fact and BD supports scoff at it. BD was not kicking HD DVD's ass. BD's numbers were higher but in raw and real numbers, it wasn't much at all. Sure, the PS3 sold a lot more but disc sales never dictated such a commanding lead. I will always believe Sony/BDA was behind the sudden announcements by WM, BB and others to go BD exclusive within a few days of each other using the same verbage "the consumer has chosen".. blah blah. Sure, it is water under the bridge but I do find it funny that the subject is pretty much split right down the middle... again, it doesn't matter at this point.

07-23-2008, 03:29 PM	#69
ack_bak Hidef Junkie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,560	It is not rocket science or magic suitcases full of money: - Blu-Ray had the support of the majority of CE's. HD DVD has basically Toshiba making SAL players and selling them at a loss forcing other CE's to stay away. - Blu-Ray had more studio support. - Blu-Ray typically had better retail support. - Blu-Ray had the PS3 going for it. - Blu-Ray had access to more blockbuster movies. - HD DVD software prices were too high typically - HD DVD's marketing was horrendous. - Did I mention Blu-Ray had the PS3 supporting it? - Software sales were nearly 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray. And if it did come down to payoffs from Sony then shame on Toshiba. They should have played hardball and stepped up to the plate with even bigger checks... I started off HD DVD and then became pro Blu-Ray after I bought my first player and saw that the quickest end to the format war pointed to Blu-Ray. The writing was on the wall for Toshiba the minute the PS3 started selling..