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IMO: Can You Really Compare HDM to DVD?

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Old 03-24-2008, 10:19 AM   #1
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Question IMO: Can You Really Compare HDM to DVD?

OK - the very basic - they both are a movie on a disc. But that is not enough for a comparison . . . IMO

Here is what DVD brought to the table when it took on VHS:

1. No more rewinding (no more rewinding charges)
2. No tracking adjustment
3. Constant image quality no matter how many times you play it.
4. Introduced multiple languages
5. Introduced selective sub titles
6. The menu system
7. Chapter search for favorite scenes
8. Smaller packaging
9. Introduced the Interactive feature (Some DVD's had DVD ROM info on them.
10. Worked with any TV
11. The audio comentary
12. Better PQ
13. Better AQ
14. For those with 16x9 TV's - Anamorphic Transfer - better PQ than those that had a 4x3 TV.

DVD has currently reached 82% of all households with a TV (98% of all households). The VTR only reached 75% and it took over 30 years. DVD did it in less than 10. DVD is the fastest selling CE product in CE history.

Now let's take a look at HDM.

1. Better PQ for those that have an HDTV (70% don't)
2. Better AQ for those that have the equipment to play lossless
3. DS PIP
4. Web Enable
5. Fancier menus

Did I miss any? Trying to make an apples to apples comparison.

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 03-24-2008 at 10:28 AM. Reason: fix title
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #2
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I agree with everything you said Lee. The biggest improvement that I enjoyed with DVD or VHS were the subtitles. I watch all of my movies with subtitles because there are times when you can't hear what's being said.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:07 PM   #3
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VCRs took a long time to adopt, thats what happens when you have a decade long format war with Beta.

Heres some more extras for BD that DVD didnt have over VCRs.
1.Backwards compatible
2.Most people that do have an HDTV will feel the need to take advantage of 'HD'(paid for it, might as well use it mentality) Same goes for Audio equipment.
3.BD-J Interactivity(interactive movies, games, search etc.) not possible on DVD.
4.190+ minute movies can fit on one disc.
5.Less discs needed overall(No more crappy 'special editions' that cost $4 more for a few extra features)

Last edited by ssjLancer; 03-24-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjLancer View Post
VCRs took a long time to adopt, thats what happens when you have a decade long format war with Beta.

Heres some more extras for BD that DVD didnt have over VCRs.
1.Backwards compatible
Yes - good one - from the get go. You could later buy a DVD/VHS player

Quote:
2.Most people that do have an HDTV will feel the need to take advantage of 'HD'(paid for it, might as well use it mentality) Same goes for Audio equipment.
I don't see that as being a "bullet" feature of the format.

Quote:
3.BD-J Interactivity(interactive movies, games, search etc.)
Listed above as Web Enable. BD-J and HDi make that work.

I guess we should add "HDM players Upscale DVD" as a bullet. Not just compatible but improve the PQ.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjLancer View Post
VCRs took a long time to adopt, thats what happens when you have a decade long format war with Beta.

Heres some more extras for BD that DVD didnt have over VCRs.
1.Backwards compatible
2.Most people that do have an HDTV will feel the need to take advantage of 'HD'(paid for it, might as well use it mentality) Same goes for Audio equipment.
3.BD-J Interactivity(interactive movies, games, search etc.)
Ugh... I have to be the one to take that apart.

1. BD is no more backwards compatible with DVD than S-VHS was with VHS. Sure, S-VHS machines would play VHS tapes, but S-VHS tapes wouldn't play in VHS machines. And S-VHS died an obscure death.

2. It's getting really difficult to find a TV that isn't HDTV anymore. People aren't buying HDTV's for the 'HD' part, they are buying them for the 'TV' part.

3. I believe Lee already covered that.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjLancer View Post
VCRs took a long time to adopt, thats what happens when you have a decade long format war with Beta.

Heres some more extras for BD that DVD didnt have over VCRs.
1.Backwards compatible
2.Most people that do have an HDTV will feel the need to take advantage of 'HD'(paid for it, might as well use it mentality) Same goes for Audio equipment.
3.BD-J Interactivity(interactive movies, games, search etc.) not possible on DVD.
Also, a lot of people conform. If they are told Blu-ray is so much better, they'll accept that and just buy it whether they see much of a difference or not simply because they've been told it's better, therefore they believe it's better.

The same philosophy can be applied to Apple fanboys
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRox View Post
Also, a lot of people conform. If they are told Blu-ray is so much better, they'll accept that and just buy it whether they see much of a difference or not simply because they've been told it's better, therefore they believe it's better.

The same philosophy can be applied to Apple fanboys
That only applies to us. Most people value their money more, or have better priorities.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:43 PM   #8
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Heres 2 more.
4.190+ minute movies can fit on one disc.
5.Less discs needed overall(No more crappy 'special editions' that cost $4 more for a few extra features)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Yes - good one - from the get go. You could later buy a DVD/VHS player
I guess.. but most people just got a DVD player and threw away their VHS collection. The transition to BD is much easier.
Quote:
I don't see that as being a "bullet" feature of the format.
If you give everyone a free car with no wheels, dont you think there will be a boom in retail tire sales?

Quote:
Listed above as Web Enable. BD-J and HDi make that work.
No. Example would be the BD-J features in Independence Day which arent Web Enabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare View Post
Ugh... I have to be the one to take that apart.

1. BD is no more backwards compatible with DVD than S-VHS was with VHS. Sure, S-VHS machines would play VHS tapes, but S-VHS tapes wouldn't play in VHS machines. And S-VHS died an obscure death.
BC wasnt why S-VHS died off. Stay relevant please.

Quote:
2. It's getting really difficult to find a TV that isn't HDTV anymore. People aren't buying HDTV's for the 'HD' part, they are buying them for the 'TV' part.
Hence the 'paid for it, might aswell use it' mentality.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare View Post
That only applies to us. Most people value their money more, or have better priorities.
"Let's see . . . "

"Should I go out to dinner for sushi . . . or go buy an HDM title and eat Ramen Noodles for dinner?"

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Old 03-24-2008, 12:46 PM   #10
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Maybe in 10 years, we'll be comparing some NEW technology to the "old" blu-ray. Who knows. IMO, blu-ray has at least a fair chance to succeed due to advertising.

1. New movies that are to be on blu-ray - clearly state that in the commercials. So, we hear it.
2. HDTV's and Blu-ray are pasted all over the BB's and CC's of the world. Not hidden down some obscure aisle never to be seen.

Though the blu-ray thing hasn't taken off like some seem to think it should have already, I believe the advertising is good and plenty aggressive for now. I mean - look at how much talk it generates on this forum. My feeling is it will capture a nice percentage of new purchases, especially as prices drop and new players with nicer prices appear. I've said it before, but seems just a matter of time. It will get forced on us - BB and CC will give more and more space to the technology and something has to give - that will be DVD. By default, we will accept it. Time. It takes time - we are all so impatient.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjLancer View Post
Heres 2 more.
4.190+ minute movies can fit on one disc.
5.Less discs needed overall(No more crappy 'special editions' that cost $4 more for a few extra features)
Same thing IMO and studios feel that they add value when they add a 2nd disc to justify the higher price. BTW - there are less than 100 films that can't fit on a DL DVD so I don't know how important that is.

http://leesmovieinfo.net/Browse.php?time1=125&time2=500

Quote:
I guess.. but most people just got a DVD player and threw away their VHS collection. The transition to BD is much easier.
If you give everyone a free car with no wheels, dont you think there will be a boom in retail tire sales?
- That's a little extreme don't you think?

Quote:
No. Example would be the BD-J features in Independence Day which arent Web Enabled.
OK - so DVD had special features (so did LD by the way) and HDM's special features are more advanced.

Last edited by Lee Stewart; 03-24-2008 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:52 PM   #12
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I'll be the broken record here: BD will not really take off as long as the price stays high. There will be slow to mederate sales only.

The % of people with HDTVs are still reletively low too.

DVD will continue as it has, slower than it once was but still sell well.

All IMO but based on what I see.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:58 PM   #13
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The purpose of this thread was to look at both formats (DVD and HDM) and compare them against what they are/were trying to replace.

To see what the consumer is getting for their money should they switch over.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
OK - the very basic - they both are a movie on a disc. But that is not enough for a comparison . . . IMO

Here is what DVD brought to the table when it took on VHS:

1. No more rewinding (no more rewinding charges)
2. No tracking adjustment
3. Constant image quality no matter how many times you play it.
4. Introduced multiple languages
5. Introduced selective sub titles
6. The menu system
7. Chapter search for favorite scenes
8. Smaller packaging
9. Introduced the Interactive feature (Some DVD's had DVD ROM info on them.
10. Worked with any TV
11. The audio comentary
12. Better PQ
13. Better AQ
14. For those with 16x9 TV's - Anamorphic Transfer - better PQ than those that had a 4x3 TV.

DVD has currently reached 82% of all households with a TV (98% of all households). The VTR only reached 75% and it took over 30 years. DVD did it in less than 10. DVD is the fastest selling CE product in CE history.

Now let's take a look at HDM.

1. Better PQ for those that have an HDTV (70% don't)
2. Better AQ for those that have the equipment to play lossless
3. DS PIP
4. Web Enable
5. Fancier menus

Did I miss any? Trying to make an apples to apples comparison.
Pretty good list, if you add SSJLancer's bullet points. His second one is about as unnecessary than your number 12 is though (both 12 and 14 are directly related to PQ - so one of them will suffice). I'd probably say "Better PQ - Due to higher quality outputs, better video quality stored on the media and additional anamorphic capabilities to utilize the resolution more efficiently). On the better AQ point I would probably expand with that you get Digital Surround formats such as DD and DTS - up to 6.1 discrete channels unlike VHS where you could only get stereo, that was made into 4 channels through matrixing (left and right were used to generate front and surrounds (one channel for surrounds, not two).

I don't get your number 10 either. I'm pretty sure VHS players worked with any tv you tried to hook it up to. (you could get picture/sound, no problem)
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Same thing IMO and studios feel that they add value when they add a 2nd disc to justify the higher price.
Bad for the studio, better for the consumer now that theres just one version. Now the only thing studios can do for a 'Special Edition' is maybe stick in a little figurine or book to actually add real value.
Quote:
BTW - there are less than 100 films that can't fit on a DL DVD so I don't know how important that is.
I hate the 'insert second disc' screen in Kingdom of Heaven and LotR. And I bet alot of people double dipping into those 2 movies will appreciate the feature aswell.

Quote:
- That's a little extreme don't you think?
Same idea.

Quote:
OK - so DVD had special features (so did LD by the way) and HDM's special features are more advanced.
Yup.

Last edited by ssjLancer; 03-24-2008 at 01:17 PM.
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