CNET:Crave - Five reasons you SHOULDN'T buy a Blu Ray player.

edders · 02-07-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Philips had CD up and running long before Sony really, however at that time it was a 60 minute disc. Someone high up at Sony (I forget who) then stated he wanted someones symphony on it which was 74 minutes long without changing the disc and so Sony managed to convince Philips to opt for the 74 minute version, rather than their 60 minute version which they already had plants set up ready to manufacture.

Sony really just didn't want Philips ahving such a lead on the technology. But I'm sure everyone on here is now happy it was a 74 minute disc instead of 60 minute.

Ninth...."all men are brothers" a sentiment which sometimes gets lost now a days (not at all toward you or your post).

Ed

**PFC5** · 02-07-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

The CD and 3.5" floppy disc were sooooooooo evil.

Knowing what WE know now, I wonder WHY you are not having any differing view of this "Sony=evil" topic.

rrrrrroger · 02-08-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

If you use that logic than you must consider BD developed by Sony/Pioneer/Panasonic.

You can't just pick and choose when to call Sony's name when it is backs up your opinion.

Zing!

You are so right. Either:

- CDs, 3.5" floppies, and Blurays are totally Sony products (and thus you have to admit Sony's dominance of music and floppies has not destroyed the world)

-or-

- CDs, 3.5" floppies, and Blurays were cooperative products among multiple companies (and thus you have to stop trying to place all the blame on just Sony; share some of the blame with Philips, Pioneer, et al).

edders · 02-08-2008, 09:55 AM

the OP posted a link to an article which did not bash Sony, but pointed out that right now BR is probably something most people can put off buying. IT also voiced the opinion that Videophiles may want to wait for a finalized spec, but did go on to say that the video in video commentaries are not important to most people. So I really don't get the defensiveness about Sony.

Personally, I have grilled Sony over creating this whole format war (IMO) but not on this thread. I recognize that Sony has some really fine pro video equipment but have personally experienced some real dud products from them in the consumer worlds, they also have some great consumer products. A few duds or a few successes neither vilifies or deifies such a large corporation. Your two cent argument is in my opinion myopic, shallow in its assumptions, and without logical merit. That is not a personal criticism, but I must say that the apparent need to be an advocate and squelch any one who voices a different opinion entirely escapes me.

Ed

tomes · 02-08-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustEd

the OP posted a link to an article which did not bash Sony, but pointed out that right now BR is probably something most people can put off buying. IT also voiced the opinion that Videophiles may want to wait for a finalized spec, but did go on to say that the video in video commentaries are not important to most people. So I really don't get the defensiveness about Sony.

Personally, I have grilled Sony over creating this whole format war (IMO) but not on this thread. I recognize that Sony has some really fine pro video equipment but have personally experienced some real dud products from them in the consumer worlds, they also have some great consumer products. A few duds or a few successes neither vilifies or deifies such a large corporation. Your two cent argument is in my opinion myopic, shallow in its assumptions, and without logical merit. That is not a personal criticism, but I must say that the apparent need to be an advocate and squelch any one who voices a different opinion entirely escapes me.

Ed

EXCEPT PS3, he clearly stated that he could recommend buying that.

I think people are just getting tired of some people (not you) jumping in and calling Sony evil in every single thread at some point.

rrrrrroger · 02-08-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustEd

So I really don't get the defensiveness about Sony.

I'm just getting the sick of the whole "Sony sucks" vibe. I could understand people saying that if it was Comcast, but in Sony's case it's largely unjustified.

Most recently a guy said, "If Blu-ray wins, Sony will dominate and life will suck" (I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

And yet, we see how Sony dominate with other formats like CDs and 3.5" floppies. Also Betacam in the professional world, and mini-DV at home. Has the presence of these Sony-licensed products made life unbearable?

Nope.

Thus the original accusation that, "If Blu-ray wins, Sony will dominate and life will suck" is not a reasonable thing to say. History has shown that Sony dominance has NOT destroyed music, or data storage, or professional television, or home camcorders. It has NOT made life suck.

I'm all for criticizing corporations (like Comsucks).
But only if the criticism has true merit.
This particular criticism had none.

cbcdesign · 02-08-2008, 11:49 AM

Certain aspects of Sony are trully irritating though. For example, doesn't it annoy you though when you see a MGM or Sony movie, all the characters in it are only using Sony products? I find this sort of one sided product placement incredibly shallow and irritating. How about inventing a fictional movie critic? How about bucking every trend in CE by trying to force a non standard technology on people? How about creating products that won't communicate with other CE products, a classic example being the poxy blue tooth PS3 remote control nonsense that makes it non compatible with all the major remotes in the world?

And you wonder why people dislike Sony so much!

BobY · 02-08-2008, 01:22 PM

The reason I'm not fond of SONY gear is they often intentionally design it to be less compatible with other brands than their own, arbitrarily requiring use of other SONY products and accessories to take advantage of certain features or performance capabilities.

I've owned a number of SONY products over the years and it was even true of my SONY headphones(!) which needed a special SONY screw-on gold-plated adapter to convert from 1/8" to 1/4".

I understand why they do this, but I still don't like it. Based on that history, I don't like SONY being the major license-holder of Blu-Ray player and disc technology (thus having some degree of price control over every Blu-Ray player or disc sold from any company), the major manufacturer of Blu-Ray discs and in control of content for those discs.

Can they use that power to jerk the market around, manipulate competition and squeeze consumers? You bet! Will they? They have often made business decisions that were not ultimately in their best interest...

Blu-Ray is primarily a SONY technology. Pioneer helped SONY develop recordable BD (as a computer storage media, which is how it was introduced), but SONY turned it into a format for HD movies, along with developing BD-ROM production and manufacturing. Most of the "hard" patents and licenses are SONY's.

mobiushky · 02-08-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbcdesign

Certain aspects of Sony are trully irritating though. For example, doesn't it annoy you though when you see a MGM or Sony movie, all the characters in it are only using Sony products? I find this sort of one sided product placement incredibly shallow and irritating. How about inventing a fictional movie critic? How about bucking every trend in CE by trying to force a non standard technology on people? How about creating products that won't communicate with other CE products, a classic example being the poxy blue tooth PS3 remote control nonsense that makes it non compatible with all the major remotes in the world?

And you wonder why people dislike Sony so much!

You can certainly look at it that way, or you could take a slightly more positive spin and think that perhaps Sony is being "too" innovative. I LOVE the idea of a BT remote. Love it to death!!!!! I hate that my $500 harmony doesn't work (well didn't, I have fixed that, and now it does) with the PS3. BUT, I am willing to accept the idea of a BT remote because the possibilities for the future are litterally mind blowing. Imagine:

-E-mail alerts from your pc on your universal remote.
-Browsing your media collection on the screen of your remote while something else is playing on the tv.
-Caller id on your remote.
-A uni remote that does not require logging into a website to update, the devices in your system simply tell it what they are and what they can do.
-simple HT setup where each device can communicate with each other and determine the best way to interacte.
-less cables and wires to run ir blasters all over the place
-miscelaneous device information such as temps.
-gadgets like Vista or Mac that can display anything you want

The list is nearly endless with possibilities that a BT remote open up. You are no longer talking about a one way communication. Your TV can communicate with your remote and display information to you. BT remotes are the future. Does is suck that Sony only went BT? A little. But I can live with that considering what can be done with it. I am glad Sony did it even though it is not convenient.

cbcdesign · 02-08-2008, 01:54 PM

How did you solve the problem with your Harmony? I would love to know as I have the Harmony 895 and the "one" thing putting me off getting a PS3 for Blu Ray at the moment is the fact that I cannot control it with my UR.

edders · 02-08-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrrrrroger

I'm just getting the sick of the whole "Sony sucks" vibe. I could understand people saying that if it was Comcast, but in Sony's case it's largely unjustified.

Most recently a guy said, "If Blu-ray wins, Sony will dominate and life will suck" (I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it).

And yet, we see how Sony dominate with other formats like CDs and 3.5" floppies. Also Betacam in the professional world, and mini-DV at home. Has the presence of these Sony-licensed products made life unbearable?

Nope.

Thus the original accusation that, "If Blu-ray wins, Sony will dominate and life will suck" is not a reasonable thing to say. History has shown that Sony dominance has NOT destroyed music, or data storage, or professional television, or home camcorders. It has NOT made life suck.

I'm all for criticizing corporations (like Comsucks).
But only if the criticism has true merit.
This particular criticism had none.

I understand your point of view. What did confuse me and make me feel you were reading into my posts is that "If Blu-ray wins, Sony will dominate and life will suck" quote. I understand you now to say that it was not necessarily from this thread hence my initial confusion (notice how cleverly I skirted around the fact that several people are on my "ignore" list though obviously not you). I had just commented on how tired I get of hearing that Sony invented the CD and was pointing out that it was not JUST SONY. Possibly that made a couple of people identify my post with the quoted sentiment.

Don't think we are really that far apart on our opinions. And will go on record that if Sony wins the BR vs HD-DVD the whole world will suck no more than usual

Ed -- There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks (old old line).

ssjLancer · 02-08-2008, 04:26 PM

Is the PS3 remote the only BT remote out there?

You got bluetooth in your phone, your car, your game systems, and your computer. Its weird that logictech hasnt been keeping up with their remotes. How much more would it cost to have a remote with BT and IR? 20.. 30 dollars more?

mobiushky · 02-08-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbcdesign

How did you solve the problem with your Harmony? I would love to know as I have the Harmony 895 and the "one" thing putting me off getting a PS3 for Blu Ray at the moment is the fact that I cannot control it with my UR.

Actually it's pretty simple. I bought a $14 Niko IR remote. It comes with a usb adapter for IR. I then programmed all the Niko remote buttons into the Harmony. It's not the most elegant way, but it works. Took me a few tweaks also, delays and repeat stuff, but the Harmony software is almost idiot proof for fixing those things.

It does not have all of the buttons of the BD remote, but almost. I don't have eject and the PS button. I also don't have a power button, so I can't turn it on or off, but I do that when I put the disc in anyway.

There is another way though. website is www.schmartz.com. He makes a usb/ir adapter that uses the ps2 remote codes. When you program the harmony with the ps3, it tells you it can't control it. But it also preloads the ps2 codes into it. He even makes one with power on/off. But it's $50. I'll probably get one, but the Niko deal is working pretty well right now.

rrrrrroger · 02-11-2008, 12:24 PM

Every time I turn on Smallville, I see everyone driving Toyotas. Should I be offended? No? Then why should I be offended by seeing Sony products in a movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

The reason I'm not fond of SONY gear is they often intentionally design it to be less compatible with other brands than their own, arbitrarily requiring use of other SONY products and accessories to take advantage of certain features or performance capabilities.

We're discussing Sony, not Apple.

Or maybe you meant Microsoft?

Or perhaps Nintendo?

JVC has done similar things.

And on and on and on..... don't let your bias overlook the fact that other companies are doing the same thing. If you hate Sony, then you should hate the other companies too.

crazyal · 02-11-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrrrrroger

Every time I turn on Smallville, I see everyone driving Toyotas. Should I be offended? No? Then why should I be offended by seeing Sony products in a movie. We're discussing Sony, not Apple.

Or maybe you meant Microsoft?

Or perhaps Nintendo?

JVC has done similar things.

And on and on and on..... don't let your bias overlook the fact that other companies are doing the same thing. If you hate Sony, then you should hate the other companies too.

Actually that does bother me, lol. Here's is poor old dirt farmer Clark in a brand new fully loaded Tundra.

Most of Sony is good. It's the crap they pulled where they installed software on your computer when you played on of their music CDs. Great idea to put a BT remote on the PS3 but where are the other products to work with it? Does Sony have TV's, sterios, anything that uses BT other than the PS3?

Here's two ideas they could have done 1:Just add IR to it and let the market adapt to BT remotes. and/or 2: Have a full lineup of CE that use the BT remote as well so we could start to see the full potential of BT remote controled CEs.

Sony is good for giving me options others don't. Sony is bad for leaving out the options that are industry standards in favor of their own.

02-08-2008, 09:55 AM	#34
edders Ever Eddy Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,455	Or the OP posted a link to an article which did not bash Sony, but pointed out that right now BR is probably something most people can put off buying. IT also voiced the opinion that Videophiles may want to wait for a finalized spec, but did go on to say that the video in video commentaries are not important to most people. So I really don't get the defensiveness about Sony. Personally, I have grilled Sony over creating this whole format war (IMO) but not on this thread. I recognize that Sony has some really fine pro video equipment but have personally experienced some real dud products from them in the consumer worlds, they also have some great consumer products. A few duds or a few successes neither vilifies or deifies such a large corporation. Your two cent argument is in my opinion myopic, shallow in its assumptions, and without logical merit. That is not a personal criticism, but I must say that the apparent need to be an advocate and squelch any one who voices a different opinion entirely escapes me. Ed

02-08-2008, 04:26 PM	#42
ssjLancer High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,968	Is the PS3 remote the only BT remote out there? You got bluetooth in your phone, your car, your game systems, and your computer. Its weird that logictech hasnt been keeping up with their remotes. How much more would it cost to have a remote with BT and IR? 20.. 30 dollars more? Last edited by ssjLancer; 02-08-2008 at 04:42 PM.

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02-08-2008, 11:49 AM	#37
cbcdesign High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Somerset, UK Posts: 1,313	Certain aspects of Sony are trully irritating though. For example, doesn't it annoy you though when you see a MGM or Sony movie, all the characters in it are only using Sony products? I find this sort of one sided product placement incredibly shallow and irritating. How about inventing a fictional movie critic? How about bucking every trend in CE by trying to force a non standard technology on people? How about creating products that won't communicate with other CE products, a classic example being the poxy blue tooth PS3 remote control nonsense that makes it non compatible with all the major remotes in the world? And you wonder why people dislike Sony so much!

02-08-2008, 01:22 PM	#38
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	The reason I'm not fond of SONY gear is they often intentionally design it to be less compatible with other brands than their own, arbitrarily requiring use of other SONY products and accessories to take advantage of certain features or performance capabilities. I've owned a number of SONY products over the years and it was even true of my SONY headphones(!) which needed a special SONY screw-on gold-plated adapter to convert from 1/8" to 1/4". I understand why they do this, but I still don't like it. Based on that history, I don't like SONY being the major license-holder of Blu-Ray player and disc technology (thus having some degree of price control over every Blu-Ray player or disc sold from any company), the major manufacturer of Blu-Ray discs and in control of content for those discs. Can they use that power to jerk the market around, manipulate competition and squeeze consumers? You bet! Will they? They have often made business decisions that were not ultimately in their best interest... Blu-Ray is primarily a SONY technology. Pioneer helped SONY develop recordable BD (as a computer storage media, which is how it was introduced), but SONY turned it into a format for HD movies, along with developing BD-ROM production and manufacturing. Most of the "hard" patents and licenses are SONY's.

02-08-2008, 01:54 PM	#40
cbcdesign High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Somerset, UK Posts: 1,313	How did you solve the problem with your Harmony? I would love to know as I have the Harmony 895 and the "one" thing putting me off getting a PS3 for Blu Ray at the moment is the fact that I cannot control it with my UR.