I was wrong about Blu Rays flesh tones.

Blue_Red · 02-05-2008, 05:59 AM

A while ago I posted that blu ray has light flesh tones and that HD DVD was much better. However I found out that when I got the blu ray player, I had to open a new video line on the XBR, forgetting that with this TV, every video feed has it's own settings. So I was looking at factory setting with the back light and picture at full blast.
Now it's all set, I just got season 3 of Lost on Blu Ray, and the picture is beyond amazing. HD DVD & Blu Ray are equal in PQ.

Bravestime · 02-05-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Red

A while ago I posted that blu ray has light flesh tones and that HD DVD was much better. However I found out that when I got the blu ray player, I had to open a new video line on the XBR, forgetting that with this TV, every video feed has it's own settings. So I was looking at factory setting with the back light and picture at full blast.
Now it's all set, I just got season 3 of Lost on Blu Ray, and the picture is beyond amazing. HD DVD & Blu Ray are equal in PQ.

Enjoy your calibrated set!

ThingontheFloo · 02-05-2008, 06:02 AM

When I got my new TV (upgrade from 720p to 1080p), the first thing I put on was LOST S3 on Blu-Ray and was really surprised how great it looked. I was so used to the DVDs and it even looks way better then the HD broadcast version of it. I hope they release the first 2 seasons quickly.

Nikopol · 02-05-2008, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Red

A while ago I posted that blu ray has light flesh tones and that HD DVD was much better. However I found out that when I got the blu ray player, I had to open a new video line on the XBR, forgetting that with this TV, every video feed has it's own settings. So I was looking at factory setting with the back light and picture at full blast.
Now it's all set, I just got season 3 of Lost on Blu Ray, and the picture is beyond amazing. HD DVD & Blu Ray are equal in PQ.

Good to hear that. Indeed the display should be calibrated for each source individually, if possible.

Blue_Red · 02-05-2008, 04:00 PM

Actually my XBR is 720p V40XBR1, I went with that one because I sit at 720p distance from the set. Lost looks awsome with the BD player in 720p. Some say to go 1080i, but I disagree, the disk is in 1080p, so I keep it in the progressive mode without interlacing the signal.

MikeRox · 02-05-2008, 04:01 PM

You'll get more detail in 1080i. I used to watch in 720p because I'm too lazy to switch my Xbox 360, but since getting a stand alone HD DVD player, I've noticed films look far better in 1080i than they did in 720p on my 360.

Blue_Red · 02-05-2008, 07:22 PM

Iinterlacing a progressive signal or disk is a sin, unless you have a 1080i set.

**kamspy** · 02-05-2008, 07:26 PM

Can't almost all 720p sets do 1080i

Blue_Red · 02-05-2008, 08:35 PM

720 sets display 1080i and 720 at 720.
But if you have a 1080i signal to start with, the monitor or player has to de interlace it and make it progressive. 720p signals look much better on 720p sets than the 1080i signal, there is no de interlacing with a 720p signal.
So if you have a 1080p disk and a 720p monitor, the signal is going to end up being displayed in progressive format, no matter what you set the player for, but you bypass the deinterlacing by keeping the 1080p disk in a progressive format.
The other way is the way of hard knox, from a progressive disk, to an interlaced 1080i, only to have the sets monitor de interlace it back to progressive format.

Just keep the progressive disk in a progressive format.

**kamspy** · 02-05-2008, 08:40 PM

1080i and 1080p are identical unless you have the eyes of the great American bald eagle or a projector with a screen that you have to measure in feet. I'm sure 1080i will look better on your set for HDM.

The only thing 720p beats 1080i in is video games and HD sports.

Blue_Red · 02-06-2008, 05:41 AM

All interlaced signals should be banned. 2 broken up fields.
They have a huge thread over at AVS about 720p and 1080p, and a lot a points were made about 1080p being as un-necessary as having a 3rd testicle.
I seen enough side by sides with blu rays signals for my own conclusions. Some 720p sets like Sony or Pioneer are going to look better than some 1080p sets like Vizio. It depends on the processors.
One of the posts that seemed neutralize the argument was this blind test of 720p next to a 1080p set with a blu ray Pirates Of The Carrabian. Although it was in another language, you can see that nothing jumped out at anyone as far as what one was clearly better, they all had to gaze at it. They used different people for the test to, and some chose the 720p set as the better picture, some chose the 1080p one. Keep in mind this was a blu ray signal, Not a 720p signal, which fits the 720 set better. The AVS thread is here,

http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167

and the video of the blind test is here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hayxSD8Ww7k

For my own decision , I seen the side by side of the blu ray signals, and the side by sides of the ESPN signals. It was the ESPN signals that leaned me to 720p for good. Someone else may see it different.

Nikopol · 02-06-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Red

They have a huge thread over at AVS about 720p and 1080p, and a lot a points were made about 1080p being as un-necessary as having a 3rd testicle.
I seen enough side by sides with blu rays signals for my own conclusions. Some 720p sets like Sony or Pioneer are going to look better than some 1080p sets like Vizio. It depends on the processors.
One of the posts that seemed neutralize the argument was this blind test of 720p next to a 1080p set with a blu ray Pirates Of The Carrabian. Although it was in another language, you can that nothing jumped out at anyone as far as what one was clearly better, they all had to stare at it. They used different people for the test to, and some chose the 720p set as the better picture, some chose the 1080p one. Keep in mind this was a blu ray. Not a 720p signal, which fits the 720 set better. The AVS thread is here,

http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167

and the video of the blind test is here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hayxSD8Ww7k

For my own decision , I seen the side by side of the blu ray signals, and the side by sides of the ESPN signals. It was the ESPN signals that leaned me to 720p for good. Someone else may see it different.

I don´t know if that is the thead you´re referring to, but some time ago a few greek people at AVS did a similar test with Marantz front projectors (one 720p/ one1080p) and they came to similar conclusions. It was pre HDM, so the sources are better now and it might be a bit different today.

Basicly, if you own a 720p display, don´t expect a jump in quality by going to 1080p that is about the same as going from 480p to 720p. There will be an improvement, especially if you don´t sit too far back. But many improvements will also be coming from better overall digital technology today (most 720p sets are somewhat dated now regarding the technology afaik), like better contrast ratios, better color reproduction, stuff like that having nothing to do with resolution.

mfabien · 02-06-2008, 06:02 AM

Movies recorded on HD DVD and BD discs are in 1080p.

For those with 720p and 768p displays, by selecting the players output at 720p, you are causing the player to downconvert to 540p then it upconverts and outputs 720p resolution.

A 768p display TV will provide more details if a 1080p output is used at the source compared to 720p.

Blue_Red · 02-06-2008, 06:07 AM

That is not true, that has only been proven with sets and players that used a cheap way to convert 1080 to 720p. They chop off half a field. Many of them passed the test, many failed. See here http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/hdtvnot.htm

Here is the correct way to convert 1080i to 720p.

Here is the correct way.

"Simple Example of 1080i to 720p Conversion

Consider the first five scan lines of the odd 540 line 1080i source field as: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9.

After conversion to 720p, imagine that the "odd" target frame has as its first 7 scan lines source lines 1, 3, 3, 5, 7, 9, 9, respectively, without blending or interpolation.

An even 540 line 1080i source field begins with lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10.

Upconverted to 720p the "even" target frame, treated "differently", has scan lines 2, 2, 4, 6, 8, 8, 10.

On the screen we see, optically blended,

Line 1 source lines 1 and 2
Line 2 source lines 2 and 3
Line 3 source lines 3 and 4
Line 4 source lines 5 and 6
Line 5 source lines 7 and 8
Line 6 source lines 8 and 9
Line 7 source lines 9 and 10
Notice that all seven target scan lines are unique.

Now consider using the "same" upconversion formula for both odd and even fields:

The odd 540 line 1080i field has lines 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. Let's say the upconverted "odd" 720p frame has the scan line content as the preceding example: 1, 3, 3, 5, 7, 9, 9.

The even 540 line 1080i field has lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Converted to 720p in the "same fashion", the "even" frame has source scan line content 2, 4, 4, 6, 8, 10, 10.

On the screen we see, also optically blended,

Line 1 source lines 1 and 2
Line 2 source lines 3 and 4
Line 3 source lines 3 and 4
Line 4 source lines 5 and 6
Line 5 source lines 7 and 8
Line 6 source lines 9 and 10
Line 7 source lines 9 and 10
Here, notice that of the seven scan lines, only five are unique so we can understand why we have a net downconversion to 540 lines of resolution.

The de-interlacing concepts of "bob" and "weave" also apply. Above we showed the "bob" method (actually the degenerate case consisting of plain doubling), filling in all lines of the target field. De-facto interpolation occurs via optical blending on the screen. Better results are probably had with no specific interpolation of scan line content during the upconversion process for each field. There are no motion artifacts (combing) but there is image softening.

Example Using Weave Method

If only 540 lines of the 720 line frame are filled in for each incoming field, the other 180 lines keeping what was left over from the previous frame, this is the "weave" method which gives the full 720 lines of resolution but which shows combing artifacts for moving subjects.

The odd 1080i field has lines 1, 3, 5, 7, 9.

After conversion to 720p, the "odd" frame may have as first 7 scan lines: 1, 3, "unchanged", 5, 7, 9, "unchanged".

The even 540 line 1080i field has lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10.

Converted to 720p "even" frame, if treated differently, may have scan line content: "unchanged", 2, 4, 6, "unchanged", 8, 10.

On the screen we see, optically blended if applicable:

Line 1 source line 1
Line 2 source lines 2 and 3
Line 3 source line 4
Line 4 source lines 5 and 6
Line 5 source line 7
Line 6 source lines 8 and 9
Line 7 source line 10

They're starting to find out that the contrast ratio thing has now become a marketing thing as well.
See this
http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html "

The consensus is that under 65 inches, 720 & 1080p is irrelevant.
Over 65 inches 1080p matters.
http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

mfabien · 02-06-2008, 06:20 AM

I repeat, HD DVD's and BD movies are in 1080p (and not in 1080i) as the source recording.

02-05-2008, 05:59 AM	#1
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	I was wrong about Blu Rays flesh tones. A while ago I posted that blu ray has light flesh tones and that HD DVD was much better. However I found out that when I got the blu ray player, I had to open a new video line on the XBR, forgetting that with this TV, every video feed has it's own settings. So I was looking at factory setting with the back light and picture at full blast. Now it's all set, I just got season 3 of Lost on Blu Ray, and the picture is beyond amazing. HD DVD & Blu Ray are equal in PQ. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player

02-05-2008, 04:00 PM	#5
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	Actually my XBR is 720p V40XBR1, I went with that one because I sit at 720p distance from the set. Lost looks awsome with the BD player in 720p. Some say to go 1080i, but I disagree, the disk is in 1080p, so I keep it in the progressive mode without interlacing the signal. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player

02-05-2008, 04:01 PM	#6
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,414	You'll get more detail in 1080i. I used to watch in 720p because I'm too lazy to switch my Xbox 360, but since getting a stand alone HD DVD player, I've noticed films look far better in 1080i than they did in 720p on my 360. __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

02-05-2008, 07:22 PM	#7
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	Iinterlacing a progressive signal or disk is a sin, unless you have a 1080i set. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player

02-05-2008, 08:35 PM	#9
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	720 sets display 1080i and 720 at 720. But if you have a 1080i signal to start with, the monitor or player has to de interlace it and make it progressive. 720p signals look much better on 720p sets than the 1080i signal, there is no de interlacing with a 720p signal. So if you have a 1080p disk and a 720p monitor, the signal is going to end up being displayed in progressive format, no matter what you set the player for, but you bypass the deinterlacing by keeping the 1080p disk in a progressive format. The other way is the way of hard knox, from a progressive disk, to an interlaced 1080i, only to have the sets monitor de interlace it back to progressive format. Just keep the progressive disk in a progressive format. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player

02-05-2008, 06:02 AM	#3
ThingontheFloo How can anyone watch standard def? Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 27	When I got my new TV (upgrade from 720p to 1080p), the first thing I put on was LOST S3 on Blu-Ray and was really surprised how great it looked. I was so used to the DVDs and it even looks way better then the HD broadcast version of it. I hope they release the first 2 seasons quickly.

02-05-2008, 07:26 PM	#8
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,040	Can't almost all 720p sets do 1080i

02-05-2008, 08:40 PM	#10
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,040	1080i and 1080p are identical unless you have the eyes of the great American bald eagle or a projector with a screen that you have to measure in feet. I'm sure 1080i will look better on your set for HDM. The only thing 720p beats 1080i in is video games and HD sports.

02-06-2008, 05:41 AM	#11
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	All interlaced signals should be banned. 2 broken up fields. They have a huge thread over at AVS about 720p and 1080p, and a lot a points were made about 1080p being as un-necessary as having a 3rd testicle. I seen enough side by sides with blu rays signals for my own conclusions. Some 720p sets like Sony or Pioneer are going to look better than some 1080p sets like Vizio. It depends on the processors. One of the posts that seemed neutralize the argument was this blind test of 720p next to a 1080p set with a blu ray Pirates Of The Carrabian. Although it was in another language, you can see that nothing jumped out at anyone as far as what one was clearly better, they all had to gaze at it. They used different people for the test to, and some chose the 720p set as the better picture, some chose the 1080p one. Keep in mind this was a blu ray signal, Not a 720p signal, which fits the 720 set better. The AVS thread is here, http://www./avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768167 and the video of the blind test is here. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hayxSD8Ww7k For my own decision , I seen the side by side of the blu ray signals, and the side by sides of the ESPN signals. It was the ESPN signals that leaned me to 720p for good. Someone else may see it different. __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player Last edited by Blue_Red; 02-06-2008 at 05:57 AM.

02-06-2008, 06:02 AM	#13
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	Movies recorded on HD DVD and BD discs are in 1080p. For those with 720p and 768p displays, by selecting the players output at 720p, you are causing the player to downconvert to 540p then it upconverts and outputs 720p resolution. A 768p display TV will provide more details if a 1080p output is used at the source compared to 720p. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

02-06-2008, 06:07 AM	#14
Blue_Red OK so BD won by payoff Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 131	That is not true, that has only been proven with sets and players that used a cheap way to convert 1080 to 720p. They chop off half a field. Many of them passed the test, many failed. See here http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/hdtvnot.htm Here is the correct way to convert 1080i to 720p. Here is the correct way. "Simple Example of 1080i to 720p Conversion Consider the first five scan lines of the odd 540 line 1080i source field as: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. After conversion to 720p, imagine that the "odd" target frame has as its first 7 scan lines source lines 1, 3, 3, 5, 7, 9, 9, respectively, without blending or interpolation. An even 540 line 1080i source field begins with lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Upconverted to 720p the "even" target frame, treated "differently", has scan lines 2, 2, 4, 6, 8, 8, 10. On the screen we see, optically blended, Line 1 source lines 1 and 2 Line 2 source lines 2 and 3 Line 3 source lines 3 and 4 Line 4 source lines 5 and 6 Line 5 source lines 7 and 8 Line 6 source lines 8 and 9 Line 7 source lines 9 and 10 Notice that all seven target scan lines are unique. Now consider using the "same" upconversion formula for both odd and even fields: The odd 540 line 1080i field has lines 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. Let's say the upconverted "odd" 720p frame has the scan line content as the preceding example: 1, 3, 3, 5, 7, 9, 9. The even 540 line 1080i field has lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Converted to 720p in the "same fashion", the "even" frame has source scan line content 2, 4, 4, 6, 8, 10, 10. On the screen we see, also optically blended, Line 1 source lines 1 and 2 Line 2 source lines 3 and 4 Line 3 source lines 3 and 4 Line 4 source lines 5 and 6 Line 5 source lines 7 and 8 Line 6 source lines 9 and 10 Line 7 source lines 9 and 10 Here, notice that of the seven scan lines, only five are unique so we can understand why we have a net downconversion to 540 lines of resolution. The de-interlacing concepts of "bob" and "weave" also apply. Above we showed the "bob" method (actually the degenerate case consisting of plain doubling), filling in all lines of the target field. De-facto interpolation occurs via optical blending on the screen. Better results are probably had with no specific interpolation of scan line content during the upconversion process for each field. There are no motion artifacts (combing) but there is image softening. Example Using Weave Method If only 540 lines of the 720 line frame are filled in for each incoming field, the other 180 lines keeping what was left over from the previous frame, this is the "weave" method which gives the full 720 lines of resolution but which shows combing artifacts for moving subjects. The odd 1080i field has lines 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. After conversion to 720p, the "odd" frame may have as first 7 scan lines: 1, 3, "unchanged", 5, 7, 9, "unchanged". The even 540 line 1080i field has lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Converted to 720p "even" frame, if treated differently, may have scan line content: "unchanged", 2, 4, 6, "unchanged", 8, 10. On the screen we see, optically blended if applicable: Line 1 source line 1 Line 2 source lines 2 and 3 Line 3 source line 4 Line 4 source lines 5 and 6 Line 5 source line 7 Line 6 source lines 8 and 9 Line 7 source line 10 They're starting to find out that the contrast ratio thing has now become a marketing thing as well. See this http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html " The consensus is that under 65 inches, 720 & 1080p is irrelevant. Over 65 inches 1080p matters. http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/ __________________ Panasonic TC-P42S1 1080p Plasma Sony Blu Ray Disk Player XA2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony KDL40S3000 (bedroom) A2 HD DVD Directv HD DVR Sony Blu Ray Disk Player Last edited by Blue_Red; 02-06-2008 at 06:17 AM.

02-06-2008, 06:20 AM	#15
mfabien High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,087	I repeat, HD DVD's and BD movies are in 1080p (and not in 1080i) as the source recording. __________________ Samsung LN52B750, SA8300HD, Energy speakers, Yamaha RX-V540, SVS PB12-ISD, Harmony 880, HD-A1, BDP-1400, Oppo DV-970HD, Zektor HDS4.1

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