The Reason We Still Have Black Bars on Our Screens

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

Fine. Replace "How the West Was Won" with "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" or "Ben Hur" then.

A centercut transfer would not work for these movies either.

Troy - you are specifically looking at again - super wide frame formats - Ultra Panavision/MGM Camera 65.

There are 10 . . . again - 10 films that were ever filmed in these 2 film processes.

Their aspect ratio is 2.76 (with a soundtrack on the print - without the soundtrack - they are 2.94). As compared to Panavision/anamorphic which is 2.35/2.40

You want to address those films? There are 10's of thousands of 35mm films shot in anamorphic.

BrianO · 12-08-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Troy - you are specifically looking at again - a super wide frame formats - Ultra Panavision/MGM Camera 65.

There are 10 . . . again - 10 films that were ever filmed in these 2 film processes.

Their aspect ratio is 2.76 (with a soundtrack on the print - without the soundtrack - they are 2.94). As compared to Panavision/anamorphic which is 2.35/2.40

You want to address those films? There are 10's of thousands of 35mm films shot in anamorphic.

Good point, Lee. The vast majority of anamorphic movies have been filmed at 2.35:1 and there are thousands of them. However your phrasing leaves your post open to the misinterpretation that the 2.76:1 movies were not anamorphic.

MGM Camera65/UltraPanavision 70 (2 different names for the same process) was an anamorphic process too with a squeeze factor of 5:4 on the 65mm negative and 70mm prints rather than the 2:1 factor used by CinemaScope and its numerous clones, including Panavision. 35 mm prints of these movies were CinemaScope-compatible prints with a squeeze factor of 2:1.

railven · 12-09-2008, 03:45 PM

So I've read threads such as these before. And I never really experienced any of my family/friends complain about the black bars until my girlfriend's father bought an HD TV.

I explained why SD content looked awful on his screen and told him to use the 4:3 ratio. He complained about the black bars.

It was an awkward conversation. Explaining to someone why their new HD TV is "smaller" because of the bar and ratios.

Lee Stewart · 12-09-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by railven

So I've read threads such as these before. And I never really experienced any of my family/friends complain about the black bars until my girlfriend's father bought an HD TV.

I explained why SD content looked awful on his screen and told him to use the 4:3 ratio. He complained about the black bars.

It was an awkward conversation. Explaining to someone why their new HD TV is "smaller" because of the bar and ratios.

- My standard post, when this issue come up - and the solution seems to work most of the time - when explaining letterbox movies to people and why the bars are there:

Which would you rather watch - The Magnificent Seven? . or . the Magnificent Four?

electrictroy · 12-11-2008, 08:51 AM

That response doesn't apply here. The issue is displaying 4:3 content on a widescreen. A better answer would be: "Which would you rather watch - Seinfeld? . or . Seinfeld the Headless?" Headless is what you get when you zoom 4:3 content.

deadhead68 · 12-11-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

That response doesn't apply here. The issue is displaying 4:3 content on a widescreen. A better answer would be: "Which would you rather watch - Seinfeld? . or . Seinfeld the Headless?" Headless is what you get when you zoom 4:3 content.

And why would you zoom?

DeadHead68

electrictroy · 12-14-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadhead68

And why would you zoom?

DeadHead68

So Uncle Charlie (or whatever his name was) will stop bitchin' about how Seinfeld doesn't fill the whole screen.

1080PsF · 12-14-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictroy

"How the West Was Won" was not filmed to be 4:3 safe.

I'm sorry that I was not clear about the shot in 16:9 but safe for 4:3. The point I was trying to make is only on the new things being shot they sometimes will shoot in 16:9 but it will be 4:3 safe, and remember not everything is shot that way just some. So Pan & Scan is still used and on all of the older titles (Ben Hur) they will have to be done that way. On some of the slates that we put at the head of the program we will have to note "16:9 1.78 stp 14:9" or "16:9 1.78 stp 4:3" (stp = shot to protect) so when it goes to the end user they know if they can do a center cut or not with that program.

HD Goofnut · 12-15-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1080PsF

I'm sorry that I was not clear about the shot in 16:9 but safe for 4:3. The point I was trying to make is only on the new things being shot they sometimes will shoot in 16:9 but it will be 4:3 safe, and remember not everything is shot that way just some. So Pan & Scan is still used and on all of the older titles (Ben Hur) they will have to be done that way. On some of the slates that we put at the head of the program we will have to note "16:9 1.78 stp 14:9" or "16:9 1.78 stp 4:3" (stp = shot to protect) so when it goes to the end user they know if they can do a center cut or not with that program.

Again, Ben Hur was one of those few films with extremely wide aspect ratios. You have to make your comparison using 2:35:1, 2:40:1, 1:85:1, or 1:78:1 as these are the main aspect ratios of movies.

Lee Stewart · 12-15-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Again, Ben Hur was one of those few films with extremely wide aspect ratios. You have to make your comparison using 2:35:1, 2:40:1, 1:85:1, or 1:78:1 as these are the main aspect ratios of movies.

In 1970 SMPTE changed the 2.35 AR to 2.39 to better hide the splices for anamorphic film.

The AR is still referred to 2.35 or rounded up to 2.40

There are only two surviving film formats now; 2.39 and 1.85.

StanDaMan · 02-05-2009, 10:30 PM

What what a great comparrison. That's huge!

sprkeng · 02-27-2009, 03:43 PM

If anyone who is worried or doesn't like the black bars, IMO and my solution is to buy a larger screen, to the point where the black bars are not an issue anymore..aren't they introducing an 82" LCD for the consumer? No worries. Although I bet Directors will start toning it down and getting away from panoramic filming to satisfy the home viewer whom buys DVD's.

12-11-2008, 08:51 AM	#50
electrictroy Wii 480p looks good to me Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,895	That response doesn't apply here. The issue is displaying 4:3 content on a widescreen. A better answer would be: "Which would you rather watch - Seinfeld? . or . Seinfeld the Headless?" Headless is what you get when you zoom 4:3 content. __________________ TV Band/whitespace Devices will block my Baltimore/Philly stations. No more channels 2,3,6,10,11,12,13,17,35,45,57,61,65

02-27-2009, 03:43 PM	#57
sprkeng HD Rocks Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southwest Washington Posts: 2,030	If anyone who is worried or doesn't like the black bars, IMO and my solution is to buy a larger screen, to the point where the black bars are not an issue anymore..aren't they introducing an 82" LCD for the consumer? No worries. Although I bet Directors will start toning it down and getting away from panoramic filming to satisfy the home viewer whom buys DVD's. __________________ Sony XBR-46 LCD PanasonicBD35 DTV HDDVR-HR21.100 Toshiba A-2 Toshiba A-3 Samsung DVD Recorder Yamaha AVR KEF 5.1 speakers Samsung LCD 32-720P DTV HD DVR R22.100 Samsung BN22 LCD D*TV HD H23.600 George Foreman Grill

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12-09-2008, 03:45 PM	#48
railven High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,724	So I've read threads such as these before. And I never really experienced any of my family/friends complain about the black bars until my girlfriend's father bought an HD TV. I explained why SD content looked awful on his screen and told him to use the 4:3 ratio. He complained about the black bars. It was an awkward conversation. Explaining to someone why their new HD TV is "smaller" because of the bar and ratios.

02-05-2009, 10:30 PM	#56
StanDaMan High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 39	What what a great comparrison. That's huge!