Grading all Blu-Ray studios in 2007

Jimmy Smith · 01-02-2008, 02:37 PM

Buena Vista - My personal favorite studio of 2007 without a doubt. Disney throughout 2007 released titles consistantly with all the DVDs extras plus some (often in high definition too), full lossless audio on every title (often at full 24 bits), and excellent video transfers on almost every title. My only complaint about Disney has been the titles they haven't released. Most signifigantly the ignoring of the Platnum line of classic animation. Peter Pan and The Jungle Book unbeliably were released as new DVD only special editions. Truth is Disney could have easily given them Blu-Ray versions and still had plenty of catalog for years to come. My only complaint about them is quantity not quality. Buena Vista overall has given us consistant excellent quality and I can't wait to see what they got for 2008

I give em an A-

Fox - Fox fucked up plain and simple. The positives first. Fox's titles have had mostly very good video transfers and very nice DTS Master Audio audio. I believe this is the best audio format to use since its both more space efficient then the wasteful PCM tracks and gives nice 1.5 megabit per second cores for those of us without HDMI recievers. However Fox has done more bad then good. First all my biggest complaint is Fox has simply been the worst studio when it comes to extras. Fox doesn't seem to understand that high def consumers want to replace their DVD collections with high def replacements and we don't want to keep out DVDs. Porting over extras is a great way to do this. With Blu-Rays 50 gig capacity and the fact that standard def extras can be ported over very cheaply there is simply never any excuse to drop extras from the DVDs. Fox has been getting better with some releases such as The Fly including all extras but Fox has a long way to go. Almost as bad was Fox's 6 month hyatus. Between April and October Fox didn't release a single title due to copy protection bullshit. No matter what some asshole is always going to find a way to copy movies but there is no reason to push innocent law abiding consumers because of this. They even still have delayed titles after citing manufactoring problems as if after not releasing titles for six fucking months they couldn't have got those problems long worked out. Blu-Ray was counting on strong Fox support for a quick victory and had Fox not fucked up like they did its possible this war would be over.

I give Fox a C

Sony - Sony has improved alot over the horrid transfers that nearly doomed Blu-Rays launch. Sony in 2007 switched from the wasteful MPEG-2 to the more efficient AVC and more recently have stoped using PCM and switched to the more efficient TrueHD. They now put out good transfers much more consistantly. Unfortunitly they still sometimes drop extras. Like Fox there logic behind this makes no real sense. For example I quickly changed my pre-order of the Spider-Man trilogy to just Spider-Man 3 when I found out that Sony was unbeliably dropping all extras from the first two movies. Still Sony has released a greater catalog then any other Blu-Ray exclusive stuidio and they definutly deserve credit for that.

I give Sony a B

Lionsgate - Lionsgate is a small studio. Lionsgate has signifigantly improved in 2007. They now frequently ofer 7.1 lossless audio (the only studio to do this) and very good transfers. They also have stopped dropping extras and now have been great at importing all the extras. My only complaint has been the lack of titles. Even for a studio as small as Lionsgate they have just been slow.

I give Lionsgate a B

Warner - Warner is the biggest movie studio in terms of catalog and they reflected that in their numerous releases. On both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray they have released almost 80 titles. They have also been probably in terms of picture the most consistant studio from the beginning. Warner with a few race exceptions also has been a huge pioneer at making sure that all DVD extras are ported over in all high def releases. Warner also has had some problems. For one thing is that some titles even with any picture in picture content such as Casalbanca and the Adventures of Robin Hood remain HD-DVD exclusive. Even for titles with picture in picture Blu-Rays extra storage should have allowed them to create a separate picture in picture version of the movie. So far they have only done this with Terminator 3 while releasing 300 dropping picture in picture despite more then enough storage existing to do a separate encode. Hopefully with Profile 1.1 now here this will no longer be a problem. Up until the recent releases or Terminator 3 and Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheniox Warner had been unwilling to use more then 30 gigs of the the 50 gig Blu-Ray. But my least favorite thing about Warner has been that many titles as still released only with 640 kilobyte per second soundtracks. This is a bit rate lower then some DVDs and is simply not adequate for high definition. Still with such huge catalogs and consistantly good picture and extras there is no doubt that Warner has been a huge benefit for both formats and if one format were to loose Warner it would be a major major blow.

I give Warner a B+

Paramount - Up until August Paramount was a Blu-Ray studio until they put short term profit (150 million anyone) over longterm high def success. I am not going to pretend that loosing Paramount was a blow to Blu-Ray it was but if Blu-Ray had to loose any studio I am glad it was Paramount. Paramount was the only Blu-Ray studio to never use lossless audio even on big action titles that needed it like Flags of our Fathers. Despite citing interactivity as a reason for leaving Blu-Ray they never used even the simplest BD-J features. Now as an HD-DVD exclusive studio they continue there no lossless audio policies. Paramount for such a big studio also continues to trikle out titles very slowly. Paramount we hardly knew you.

I give Paramount a D

HD Goofnut · 01-02-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Buena Vista - My personal favorite studio of 2007 without a doubt. Disney throughout 2007 released titles consistantly with all the DVDs extras plus some (often in high definition too), full lossless audio on every title (often at full 24 bits), and excellent video transfers on almost every title. My only complaint about Disney has been the titles they haven't released. Most signifigantly the ignoring of the Platnum line of classic animation. Peter Pan and The Jungle Book unbeliably were released as new DVD only special editions. Truth is Disney could have easily given them Blu-Ray versions and still had plenty of catalog for years to come. My only complaint about them is quantity not quality. Buena Vista overall has given us consistant excellent quality and I can't wait to see what they got for 2008

I give em an A-

Fox - Fox fucked up plain and simple. The positives first. Fox's titles have had mostly very good video transfers and very nice DTS Master Audio audio. I believe this is the best audio format to use since its both more space efficient then the wasteful PCM tracks and gives nice 1.5 megabit per second cores for those of us without HDMI recievers. However Fox has done more bad then good. First all my biggest complaint is Fox has simply been the worst studio when it comes to extras. Fox doesn't seem to understand that high def consumers want to replace their DVD collections with high def replacements and we don't want to keep out DVDs. Porting over extras is a great way to do this. With Blu-Rays 50 gig capacity and the fact that standard def extras can be ported over very cheaply there is simply never any excuse to drop extras from the DVDs. Fox has been getting better with some releases such as The Fly including all extras but Fox has a long way to go. Almost as bad was Fox's 6 month hyatus. Between April and October Fox didn't release a single title due to copy protection bullshit. No matter what some asshole is always going to find a way to copy movies but there is no reason to push innocent law abiding consumers because of this. They even still have delayed titles after citing manufactoring problems as if after not releasing titles for six fucking months they couldn't have got those problems long worked out. Blu-Ray was counting on strong Fox support for a quick victory and had Fox not fucked up like they did its possible this war would be over.

I give Fox a C

Sony - Sony has improved alot over the horrid transfers that nearly doomed Blu-Rays launch. Sony in 2007 switched from the wasteful MPEG-2 to the more efficient AVC and more recently have stoped using PCM and switched to the more efficient TrueHD. They now put out good transfers much more consistantly. Unfortunitly they still sometimes drop extras. Like Fox there logic behind this makes no real sense. For example I quickly changed my pre-order of the Spider-Man trilogy to just Spider-Man 3 when I found out that Sony was unbeliably dropping all extras from the first two movies. Still Sony has released a greater catalog then any other Blu-Ray exclusive stuidio and they definutly deserve credit for that.

I give Sony a B

Lionsgate - Lionsgate is a small studio. Lionsgate has signifigantly improved in 2007. They now frequently ofer 7.1 lossless audio (the only studio to do this) and very good transfers. They also have stopped dropping extras and now have been great at importing all the extras. My only complaint has been the lack of titles. Even for a studio as small as Lionsgate they have just been slow.

I give Lionsgate a B

Warner - Warner is the biggest movie studio in terms of catalog and they reflected that in their numerous releases. On both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray they have released almost 80 titles. They have also been probably in terms of picture the most consistant studio from the beginning. Warner with a few race exceptions also has been a huge pioneer at making sure that all DVD extras are ported over in all high def releases. Warner also has had some problems. For one thing is that some titles even with any picture in picture content such as Casalbanca and the Adventures of Robin Hood remain HD-DVD exclusive. Even for titles with picture in picture Blu-Rays extra storage should have allowed them to create a separate picture in picture version of the movie. So far they have only done this with Terminator 3 while releasing 300 dropping picture in picture despite more then enough storage existing to do a separate encode. Hopefully with Profile 1.1 now here this will no longer be a problem. Up until the recent releases or Terminator 3 and Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheniox Warner had been unwilling to use more then 30 gigs of the the 50 gig Blu-Ray. But my least favorite thing about Warner has been that many titles as still released only with 640 kilobyte per second soundtracks. This is a bit rate lower then some DVDs and is simply not adequate for high definition. Still with such huge catalogs and consistantly good picture and extras there is no doubt that Warner has been a huge benefit for both formats and if one format were to loose Warner it would be a major major blow.

I give Warner a B+

Paramount - Up until August Paramount was a Blu-Ray studio until they put short term profit (150 million anyone) over longterm high def success. I am not going to pretend that loosing Paramount was a blow to Blu-Ray it was but if Blu-Ray had to loose any studio I am glad it was Paramount. Paramount was the only Blu-Ray studio to never use lossless audio even on big action titles that needed it like Flags of our Fathers. Despite citing interactivity as a reason for leaving Blu-Ray they never used even the simplest BD-J features. Now as an HD-DVD exclusive studio they continue there no lossless audio policies. Paramount for such a big studio also continues to trikle out titles very slowly. Paramount we hardly knew you.

I give Paramount a D

Blu Ray FUD in 5...4...3...wait just look above.

Stew4HD · 01-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Yay, another post centered around .. what else?... lossless.. gag!

Sorry for a spam type response but still said what I mean.

Jimmy Smith · 01-02-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Yay, another post centered around .. what else?... lossless.. gag!

Sorry for a spam type response but still said what I mean.

You obviously didn't read it if you thought my grades were about lossless audio I put all things into consideration

Number of titles
Picture
Audio
Extras

All into consideration equaly. HD-DVD lovers just hate lossless audio being brought up because they know it makes their format look bad given that Blu-Ray exclusive studios use lossless audio constantly while its a rare sight on an HD-DVD exclusive title.

mshulman · 01-02-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

All into consideration equaly. HD-DVD lovers just hate lossless audio being brought up because they know it makes their format look bad given that Blu-Ray exclusive studios use lossless audio constantly while its a rare sight on an HD-DVD exclusive title.

No. I have both HD DVD and Blu-ray. I have the Onkyo 805. Personally, I just can't see a discernable difference between the various formats.

I think many people just THINK its better because technically speaking it should be. Hmm.. kind of like blu-ray

In reality however, most people can't tell the difference. I've flipped back and forth between formats and still can't tell a difference.

Super XP · 01-02-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

You obviously didn't read it if you thought my grades were about lossless audio I put all things into consideration

Number of titles
Picture
Audio
Extras

All into consideration equaly. HD-DVD lovers just hate lossless audio being brought up because they know it makes their format look bad given that Blu-Ray exclusive studios use lossless audio constantly while its a rare sight on an HD-DVD exclusive title.

Dolby TrueHD sounds better thank U.

MikeRox · 01-02-2008, 04:15 PM

Can you hear the difference then Super XP? I can't hear the difference between DTS/DD 5.1 and the lossless codecs, so to be able to hear the difference between True HD and PCM you must have ears like a bat.

**kamspy** · 01-02-2008, 04:21 PM

Disney/BV: A+, reference disc after reference disc. Best studio doing HDM IMO.

Sony: B, what's up with dropping PCM on many titles and the new super-high MSRP

Lionsgate: B, more than I expected from them.

Warner/New Line: A, 300, Blade Runner, 2001, Harry Potters, Pan's Labyrinth etc. Second only to Disney in churning out reference discs.

Paramount/Dreamworks: C, Shooter has standard Dolby Digital, nuff said. Impressive PQ keeping them away from an F

LucasFilm: F Didn't release a thing.

apocolypse · 01-02-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

You obviously didn't read it if you thought my grades were about lossless audio I put all things into consideration

Number of titles
Picture
Audio
Extras

All into consideration equaly. HD-DVD lovers just hate lossless audio being brought up because they know it makes their format look bad given that Blu-Ray exclusive studios use lossless audio constantly while its a rare sight on an HD-DVD exclusive title.

I personally don't hate lossless being brought up for this reason. I think it's honestly much ado about nothing for a large percentage of the buying public. While I'm sure that it's a nice feature/benefit, I don't think it plays a large factor in the grand scheme of things when most people either can't hear or can't appreciate it, for whatever reason.

As far as the studio grading is concerned, I appreciate hearing your take on the matter. Interesting stuff.

Super XP · 01-02-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Can you hear the difference then Super XP? I can't hear the difference between DTS/DD 5.1 and the lossless codecs, so to be able to hear the difference between True HD and PCM you must have ears like a bat.

Thanks for clarifying my point further. And FACT - Oh now nice Transformers HD DVD sounds

**kamspy** · 01-02-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRox

Can you hear the difference then Super XP? I can't hear the difference between DTS/DD 5.1 and the lossless codecs, so to be able to hear the difference between True HD and PCM you must have ears like a bat.

Count me in! Check out the new sig!

Now to photoshop bat ears onto my avatar..............

Jimmy Smith · 01-02-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocolypse

I personally don't hate lossless being brought up for this reason. I think it's honestly much ado about nothing for a large percentage of the buying public. While I'm sure that it's a nice feature/benefit, I don't think it plays a large factor in the grand scheme of things when most people either can't hear or can't appreciate it, for whatever reason.

Same can be said about high definition period.

For some to say that lossless audio doesn't matter because titles like Transformers sound better then many lossless discs is like saying there is no difference between DVD and high definition because Revenge of the Sith on upconverted DVD looks better then Christmas Vaction does on HD disc.

apocolypse · 01-02-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Same can be said about high definition period.

For some to say that lossless audio doesn't matter because titles like Transformers sound better then many lossless discs is like saying there is no difference between DVD and high definition because Revenge of the Sith on upconverted DVD looks better then Christmas Vaction does on HD disc.

First off, I for some reason thought you meant "uncompressed" instead of "lossless" (even though it was clearly written out for me

) so I didn't mean to imply that lossless didn't matter. What I meant to imply was that the difference between lossless and uncompressed didn't matter for the majority of the buying public. And for the record, HD-DVD can and does have lossless, it's just the studios have a bit of an odd track record with using it.

However, you are comparing apples and oranges as everyone with a HDTV and see and appreciate the difference between SD-DVD and HD-DVD/Blu Ray. Not everyone has the audio rig to say the same.

**PFC5** · 01-02-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshulman

No. I have both HD DVD and Blu-ray. I have the Onkyo 805. Personally, I just can't see a discernable difference between the various formats.

I think many people just THINK its better because technically speaking it should be. Hmm.. kind of like blu-ray

In reality however, most people can't tell the difference. I've flipped back and forth between formats and still can't tell a difference.

Apparently Filmmixer (a real Hollywood film mixer) had a double blind test with some of the so called "golden ear" AVS members who have the very high end audio/video equipment and they all basically could not tell the difference between 24 bit DD+ @ 1.5mbps and the lossless soundtracks, so lets just stop talking about how "important" lossless is when comparing the exact same material with the different codecs.

I can hear a distinct difference with DD+ when it is like Warner's at only 640kbps, but that was being done to make it easy to port it as DD for the limits of BD not HD DVD.

It is nice to have lossless, but the difference when compared to 24 bit DD+ @1.5mbps is almost nil for something like 99% of the population. I would take an excellent DD+ done right over a DtHD/DTS-HD MA/PCM lossless soundtrack done poorly.

**kamspy** · 01-02-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I would take an excellent DD+ done right over a DtHD/DTS-HD MA/PCM lossless soundtrack done poorly.

It is all in the mix! Even a bat eared, spec whore like myself can see that!

01-02-2008, 02:37 PM	#1
Jimmy Smith 50>30 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,998	Grading all Blu-Ray studios in 2007 Buena Vista - My personal favorite studio of 2007 without a doubt. Disney throughout 2007 released titles consistantly with all the DVDs extras plus some (often in high definition too), full lossless audio on every title (often at full 24 bits), and excellent video transfers on almost every title. My only complaint about Disney has been the titles they haven't released. Most signifigantly the ignoring of the Platnum line of classic animation. Peter Pan and The Jungle Book unbeliably were released as new DVD only special editions. Truth is Disney could have easily given them Blu-Ray versions and still had plenty of catalog for years to come. My only complaint about them is quantity not quality. Buena Vista overall has given us consistant excellent quality and I can't wait to see what they got for 2008 I give em an A- Fox - Fox fucked up plain and simple. The positives first. Fox's titles have had mostly very good video transfers and very nice DTS Master Audio audio. I believe this is the best audio format to use since its both more space efficient then the wasteful PCM tracks and gives nice 1.5 megabit per second cores for those of us without HDMI recievers. However Fox has done more bad then good. First all my biggest complaint is Fox has simply been the worst studio when it comes to extras. Fox doesn't seem to understand that high def consumers want to replace their DVD collections with high def replacements and we don't want to keep out DVDs. Porting over extras is a great way to do this. With Blu-Rays 50 gig capacity and the fact that standard def extras can be ported over very cheaply there is simply never any excuse to drop extras from the DVDs. Fox has been getting better with some releases such as The Fly including all extras but Fox has a long way to go. Almost as bad was Fox's 6 month hyatus. Between April and October Fox didn't release a single title due to copy protection bullshit. No matter what some asshole is always going to find a way to copy movies but there is no reason to push innocent law abiding consumers because of this. They even still have delayed titles after citing manufactoring problems as if after not releasing titles for six fucking months they couldn't have got those problems long worked out. Blu-Ray was counting on strong Fox support for a quick victory and had Fox not fucked up like they did its possible this war would be over. I give Fox a C Sony - Sony has improved alot over the horrid transfers that nearly doomed Blu-Rays launch. Sony in 2007 switched from the wasteful MPEG-2 to the more efficient AVC and more recently have stoped using PCM and switched to the more efficient TrueHD. They now put out good transfers much more consistantly. Unfortunitly they still sometimes drop extras. Like Fox there logic behind this makes no real sense. For example I quickly changed my pre-order of the Spider-Man trilogy to just Spider-Man 3 when I found out that Sony was unbeliably dropping all extras from the first two movies. Still Sony has released a greater catalog then any other Blu-Ray exclusive stuidio and they definutly deserve credit for that. I give Sony a B Lionsgate - Lionsgate is a small studio. Lionsgate has signifigantly improved in 2007. They now frequently ofer 7.1 lossless audio (the only studio to do this) and very good transfers. They also have stopped dropping extras and now have been great at importing all the extras. My only complaint has been the lack of titles. Even for a studio as small as Lionsgate they have just been slow. I give Lionsgate a B Warner - Warner is the biggest movie studio in terms of catalog and they reflected that in their numerous releases. On both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray they have released almost 80 titles. They have also been probably in terms of picture the most consistant studio from the beginning. Warner with a few race exceptions also has been a huge pioneer at making sure that all DVD extras are ported over in all high def releases. Warner also has had some problems. For one thing is that some titles even with any picture in picture content such as Casalbanca and the Adventures of Robin Hood remain HD-DVD exclusive. Even for titles with picture in picture Blu-Rays extra storage should have allowed them to create a separate picture in picture version of the movie. So far they have only done this with Terminator 3 while releasing 300 dropping picture in picture despite more then enough storage existing to do a separate encode. Hopefully with Profile 1.1 now here this will no longer be a problem. Up until the recent releases or Terminator 3 and Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheniox Warner had been unwilling to use more then 30 gigs of the the 50 gig Blu-Ray. But my least favorite thing about Warner has been that many titles as still released only with 640 kilobyte per second soundtracks. This is a bit rate lower then some DVDs and is simply not adequate for high definition. Still with such huge catalogs and consistantly good picture and extras there is no doubt that Warner has been a huge benefit for both formats and if one format were to loose Warner it would be a major major blow. I give Warner a B+ Paramount - Up until August Paramount was a Blu-Ray studio until they put short term profit (150 million anyone) over longterm high def success. I am not going to pretend that loosing Paramount was a blow to Blu-Ray it was but if Blu-Ray had to loose any studio I am glad it was Paramount. Paramount was the only Blu-Ray studio to never use lossless audio even on big action titles that needed it like Flags of our Fathers. Despite citing interactivity as a reason for leaving Blu-Ray they never used even the simplest BD-J features. Now as an HD-DVD exclusive studio they continue there no lossless audio policies. Paramount for such a big studio also continues to trikle out titles very slowly. Paramount we hardly knew you. I give Paramount a D __________________ Blu-Ray the only high definition disc format

01-02-2008, 02:49 PM	#3
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,068	Yay, another post centered around .. what else?... lossless.. gag! Sorry for a spam type response but still said what I mean. __________________ ___________________________________

01-02-2008, 04:15 PM	#7
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,417	Can you hear the difference then Super XP? I can't hear the difference between DTS/DD 5.1 and the lossless codecs, so to be able to hear the difference between True HD and PCM you must have ears like a bat. __________________ REGION B 4TW! Latest HD additions - I Love You Man - 17 Again - Born on the 4th of July - Paul Blart: Mall Cop - Monsters, Inc. HD Movies - Um... Lost count >_< bout 250 Latest Gaming Additions - Mirrors Edge - Scene It BOS - Wartech: Senko No Ronde - Lego Indiana Jones/Kung Fu Panda 2 pack - Silent Hill

01-02-2008, 04:21 PM	#8
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,057	Disney/BV: A+, reference disc after reference disc. Best studio doing HDM IMO. Sony: B, what's up with dropping PCM on many titles and the new super-high MSRP Lionsgate: B, more than I expected from them. Warner/New Line: A, 300, Blade Runner, 2001, Harry Potters, Pan's Labyrinth etc. Second only to Disney in churning out reference discs. Paramount/Dreamworks: C, Shooter has standard Dolby Digital, nuff said. Impressive PQ keeping them away from an F LucasFilm: F Didn't release a thing. Last edited by kamspy; 01-02-2008 at 04:25 PM.

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