Why Does DD+ Exist?

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 10:53 PM

Since you need the same AVR to pass DD+ and TrueHD, why the hell does DD+ exist?

I am unaware of any AVR or player that can pass DD+ and not THD.

Dare has shown that the storage is almost equal for a DD+ track and a TrueHD track.

So why the hell does this codec exist?

If you say bandwidth issues, and you support HD DVD only, you have just eaten a big roasted crow.

Harry Potter 5 shows us that 5 star PQ and lossless can fit on a long-ish movie in the HD DVD format.

Me thinks Dolby wants to help the studios cop-out on putting lossless on every disc. Studios <heart> Dolby for reasons like this.

Your thoughts?

Lee Stewart · 12-26-2007, 10:56 PM

Maybe this will help - right from the horses mouth:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...ital_plus.html

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Maybe this will help - right from the horses mouth:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...ital_plus.html

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

I have been lamented with the "splendors" of Dolby encodes on AVS, trust me, but what is the point in making a lossy codec, that can only be decoded by HDMI lossless capable AVRs?

And in some cases, including a DD+ track and a TrueHD track on the same movie. What is the point?

oblioman · 12-26-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

I have been lamented with the "splendors" of Dolby encodes on AVS, trust me, but what is the point in making a lossy codec, that can only be decoded by HDMI lossless capable AVRs?

And in some cases, including a DD+ track and a TrueHD track on the same movie. What is the point?

No point really,,,kind of like advertising 7.1 THX certified. Is there any movie soundtracks that actually use 7.1???

Lee Stewart · 12-26-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

I have been lamented with the "splendors" of Dolby encodes on AVS, trust me, but what is the point in making a lossy codec, that can only be decoded by HDMI lossless capable AVRs?

And in some cases, including a DD+ track and a TrueHD track on the same movie. What is the point?

If I don't have an HDMI receiver - how am I going to hear the 5.1 soundtrack? DD+ - that's how.

Some DD+ titles go beyond the 640K bit rate via Toslink. They show up on my reveiver as DTS 5.1 not DD5.1.

**PFC5** · 12-26-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

If I don't have an HDMI receiver - how am I going to hear the 5.1 soundtrack? DD+ - that's how.

Some DD+ titles go beyond the 640K bit rate via Toslink. They show up on my reveiver as DTS 5.1 not DD5.1.

Lee, they do that with DtHD also.

Lee Stewart · 12-26-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

No point really,,,kind of like advertising 7.1 THX certified. Is there any movie soundtracks that actually use 7.1???

Nope - none - nada - no such thing.

A few 6.1 - The Star wars movies - they add a back surround channel.

A Theater only has 3 walls - where does the 7th channel go?

Only IMAX uses 6 full range channels - 4 behind the screen and 2 in the theater.

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 11:30 PM

DD+ degrades to DD5.1@448kbps when passed via toslink/spdif/optical/coax.

I read the link, and dolby is pushing it to be the next cable digital audio format, that I can see.

But why is it on HDM? Did we need another lossy codec?

Some releases have TrueHD and DD+, what's the point?

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oblioman

No point really,,,kind of like advertising 7.1 THX certified. Is there any movie soundtracks that actually use 7.1???

Ultimate Avengers and Crank so far.

War is slated to have 7.1

Lee Stewart · 12-26-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Lee, they do that with DtHD also.

So you are saying I can select DTHD from the audio menu setup from Blade Runner (has both DD+ and DTHD) and via the Toslink connection - I will get DD5.1?

Is that right?

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

So you are saying I can select DTHD from the audio menu setup from Blade Runner (has both DD+ and DTHD) and via the Toslink connection - I will get DD5.1?

Is that right?

Yes.

I know from experience.

Pop it in via optical and check it out. Same thing as DD+. They both get turned into a DD5.1@448kbps stream, unless your player recodes the PCM to a higher(1.5mbps) dts stream. The A2 does this, not sure about the A3. My add-on lets me choose between DD and DTS since it cannot pass lossless or DD+.

If I set my add-on to DD, than DD+ and THD get turned into DD5.1@448kbps. If I set it to DTS, they go to 1.5mbps.

Lee Stewart · 12-26-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

Yes.

I know from experience.

Pop it in via optical and check it out. Same thing as DD+. They both get turned into a DD5.1@448kbps stream, unless your player recodes the PCM to a higher(1.5mbps) dts stream. The A2 does this, not sure about the A3. My add-on lets me choose between DD and DTS since it cannot pass lossless or DD+.

If I set my add-on to DD, than DD+ and THD get turned into DD5.1@448kbps. If I set it to DTS, they go to 1.5mbps.

I will give it a try tomorrow. I will post results here.

I have an A2

**kamspy** · 12-26-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

I will give it a try tomorrow. I will post results here.

I have an A2

I guarantee the same results.

The A2 turns everything into DTS@1.5mbps when using optical.

**PFC5** · 12-27-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamspy

I guarantee the same results.

The A2 turns everything into DTS@1.5mbps when using optical.

Yes it does, but the A3x only down samples the higher codecs to DD @640kbps, which is why I prefer the A2 over the A3, even though I have a HDMI receiver. at some point I will get a newer model HD DVD player and the A2 will better for the non HDMI receiver since it transcodes the DD+/DtHD to DTS@1.5mbps.

**kamspy** · 12-27-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

Yes it does, but the A3x only down samples the higher codecs to DD @640kbps, which is why I prefer the A2 over the A3, even though I have a HDMI receiver. at some point I will get a newer model HD DVD player and the A2 will better for the non HDMI receiver since it transcodes the DD+/DtHD to DTS@1.5mbps.

Which is why I did not buy an A3. Wish I would have got my ass to Wally's for a $99 A2.

12-26-2007, 10:53 PM	#1
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,045	Why Does DD+ Exist? Since you need the same AVR to pass DD+ and TrueHD, why the hell does DD+ exist? I am unaware of any AVR or player that can pass DD+ and not THD. Dare has shown that the storage is almost equal for a DD+ track and a TrueHD track. So why the hell does this codec exist? If you say bandwidth issues, and you support HD DVD only, you have just eaten a big roasted crow. Harry Potter 5 shows us that 5 star PQ and lossless can fit on a long-ish movie in the HD DVD format. Me thinks Dolby wants to help the studios cop-out on putting lossless on every disc. Studios <heart> Dolby for reasons like this. Your thoughts?

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12-26-2007, 10:56 PM	#2
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,188	Maybe this will help - right from the horses mouth: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...ital_plus.html http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD.html

12-26-2007, 11:30 PM	#8
kamspy Esteban Moderatoro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati,OH Good Posts: 12 Posts: 13,045	DD+ degrades to DD5.1@448kbps when passed via toslink/spdif/optical/coax. I read the link, and dolby is pushing it to be the next cable digital audio format, that I can see. But why is it on HDM? Did we need another lossy codec? Some releases have TrueHD and DD+, what's the point?