HD/BD sell 57,000 SAL units on Black Friday; HD scores 62%, BD 37%

crazyal · 12-08-2007, 04:34 PM

It's funny. Those who support BD want to include the PS3 when people are talking about stand alone players but when things like attach rates come up it's a who different story. The HD DVD supporters keep saying not all PS3s are being used as players, never once heard any HD DVD supporter say the PS3 doesn't count as a BD player. If every one always counted that would put the BD attach rate in the toilet.

Bunter · 12-08-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quexos

I disagree. The PS3 is a gaming system AND a Bluray player. I swear I can see bluray movies with it, yes yes !

Personally, I love the can opener, the fish scaler, and the nail file, too!

Cowboy X · 12-08-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunter

Personally, I love the can opener, the fish scaler, and the nail file, too!

I prefer the integrated shoe de-interlacer.

mshulman · 12-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard

The PS3 outsells HD DVD all of the time. That isn't worth mentioning here. The fact the PS3 is a better HD disc player that does much more than any HD DVD player isn't worth mentioning here. The fact the PS3 will pass 7,000,000 sold before all HD DVD players combined pass 1,000,000 sold isn't worth mentioning here. Until I owned a PS3 I didn't realize how much better it is than anything that HD DVD has to offer, it is no wonder it sells, despite being much higher priced.

Chris

Do you really believe what you write?

Why is it the PS3 has sold the numbers its sold? Think it may have something to do with the PS3 part and less with the blu-ray part?

I can completely agree that MANY people use their PS3's for movies. As PFC5 pointed out, we could estimate 20% of them are used frequently for this. But to think its sold what its sold today BECAUSE of blu-ray is completely ignorant. Without Blu-ray, it still would be very close to where it is in sales today.

Many who bought it with the intent of using it as a blu-ray player, would have bought it any way for the games. Blu-ray was the bonus.

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswoods1

Where are you getting the "HD SALs sold another 160k on 11/28" part?

From what I understand, there were an estimated 320k HD SALs before the Wal-mart $99 sale. Then the WM sale weekend sold 90k, putting the estimated number to 410k. Then this article says on BF they sold about 35k, puttting the total to at least 445k. Then if you add in about 10k per week between the Wal-mart sale and BF, you get about 30k more, or 475k total. This is in the ballpark range of the HD group saying there are 750k total SALs + add-ons out there.

But this article has a very weird picture of the BD SAL total. It says that by year end, there will be 461k BD SALs... but at the end of September, Microsoft said the add-on had sold 220k and that was more than all BD SALs combined. So, where did these extra 240k BD SALs come from?

Assuming BD SALs sold 10k per week for the rest of the year (and 20k during BF week), that would be just 130k more, bringing the BD SAL total to, at most, 350k by year-end.

The number was 420,000 HD players before the WM sale. Then all you do is track the announcements.

And BD has sold less than 200,000 SAL's since June 2006! That is what DEG said. So that 10K per week is an over inflated number. They would be lucky to see 5K per week and only because it's the Xmas holiday.

$400 to $500 is an EA price. And EA's know about the profile issue now. The best deal IS the PS3 and we can see that in the sales. The BD SAL's just aren't selling well at all.

**PFC5** · 12-08-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomes

Not counting ps3 is kind of ridiculous, seeing it is likely the only current player you can buy that will be profile 2.0 compatible (at some point), do all sorts of other stuff, AND costs the same or less as all SAL's.

You have to count the PS3 BECAUSE it is the best BD player that looks like it will be updated to be 2.0 compliant, but I just think that is sad it has to be a game console with only blue tooth for the remote control without having to jury rig a USB device. I will not buy another one because of this IF my son takes the PS3 to his room now that he has a HDTV there.

So yes, the PS3 needs to be counted. It is just what percentage of them to count. Both sides have played the count it here but not count it there, but I think we just need to get an accurate count of how many are used as mostly/frequent BD movie players. So far that number looks to be about 20%.

Does counting 20% as BD movie players sound good?

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

You have to count the PS3 BECAUSE it is the best BD player that looks like it will be updated to be 2.0 compliant, but I just think that is sad it has to be a game console with only blue tooth for the remote control without having to jury rig a USB device. I will not buy another one because of this IF my son takes the PS3 to his room now that he has a HDTV there.

So yes, the PS3 needs to be counted. It is just what percentage of them to count. Both sides have played the count it here but not count it there, but I think we just need to get an accurate count of how many are used as mostly/frequent BD movie players. So far that number looks to be about 20%.

Does counting 20% as BD movie players sound good?

PFC5 - you are trying to nail JELL-O to the wall. It just can't be done.

Sony says 80% have tried a BD movie in a PS3 (BS) while NPD says 50% don't even realize it plays movies.

It's a moving target based on the title that is released. We don't even know how many are attached to HDTV's which they have to be to take advantage of HD.

20%, 30%, 40% - it's literally pick a number.

IMO - they all count - just like all the HD DVD devices count.

It is the only way to look at the market with any certainty because we are given the numbers ad nauseum.

Johnny Reb · 12-08-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

PFC5 - you are trying to nail JELL-O to the wall. It just can't be done.

Sony says 80% have tried a BD movie in a PS3 (BS) while NPD says 50% don't even realize it plays movies.

It's a moving target based on the title that is released. We don't even know how many are attached to HDTV's which they have to be to take advantage of HD.

20%, 30%, 40% - it's literally pick a number.

IMO - they all count - just like all the HD DVD devices count.

It is the only way to look at the market with any certainty because we are given the numbers ad nauseum.

All of the 40GB PS3's came with Spiderman 3 in the box. I guess that means that almost 100% of the 40GB model buyers have seen a Blu Ray movie.

Stew4HD · 12-08-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Reb

All of the 40GB PS3's came with Spiderman 3 in the box. I guess that means that almost 100% of the 40GB model buyers have seen a Blu Ray movie.

And how many of those are NOT connected to an HDTV? We may never know....

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

And how many of those are NOT connected to an HDTV? We may never know....

If they follow the national average . . 30% have an HDTV so 70% have put SPM3 in the player and saw no difference with a regular DVD. THAT doesn't sound good.

mswoods1 · 12-08-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

The number was 420,000 HD players before the WM sale. Then all you do is track the announcements.

?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Home Media Magazine

Industry sources say that in the three days after Wal-Mart lowered the price of the second-generation HD-A2 player to less than $100, the big discount chain sold 60,000 units. Other chains that matched the price, both in stores and online, brought the total sold to nearly 100,000 units. Add that to the estimated 320,000 dedicated HD DVD players already in homes, and total household penetration is at about 420,000 units — a number format backers expect will exceed 500,000 units by the end of this month.

Link: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_ID=11509

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswoods1

?

Link: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/new...ticle_ID=11509

Great! - lets use these numbers then. 320K on 11/1 - 100K on 11/2 for a total number of 420K on 11/3.

Then on 11/28 the number jumped to 750,000.

So between 11/3 and 11/28 they sold 330,000 HD DVD players.

And the lowest price for the players was offered during the BF 4 day weekend . . and they sold 57,000 SAL?

?

OBTW . . . from your OP . . .

Quote:

Paul Erickson, director of DVD and HD DVD market research at DisplaySearch, said that HD DVD’s retail pricing, which on average was 50% cheaper than Blu-ray stand-alones

Since when is the price difference 50% when one is priced at $199 and the $399?

Oh I know he is using MSRP - $299 to $399 but we both know very few A2's or A3's were sold at $299 while almost all the SAL's were sold at $399.

?

I smell FUD

mswoods1 · 12-08-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Great! - lets use these numbers then. 320K on 11/1 - 100K on 11/2 for a total number of 420K on 11/3.

Then on 11/28 the number jumped to 750,000.

So between 11/3 and 11/28 they sold 330,000 HD DVD players.

And the lowest price for the players was offered during the BF 4 day weekend . . and they sold 57,000 SAL?

The 750,000 number includes Xbox add-ons, which total around 250,000 at the moment. Exact quote from OP:

Quote:

The HD DVD camp earlier said its total sales of set-top players and gaming devices reached 750,000 units following widespread holiday retail sales, notably including $99-priced players at Wal-Mart and Best Buy.

The 57,000 number included both BD and HD SALs. HD SALs alone only sold about 35k during BF week according to the article.

Using these numbers, 420k after WM sale + 250k HD-DVD add-ons + 35k sold on BF = 705k HD devices.

The article is only claiming the HD SALs sold around 45k between the Wal-mart sale and BF.

Quote:

Since when is the price difference 50% when one is priced at $199 and the $399?

199/399 ~= 200/400 = 50% price difference. An HD SAL costs 50% of what a BD SAL costs

Lee Stewart · 12-08-2007, 10:12 PM

Time to start over . . . OP . . .

Quote:

HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc stand-alone players sold 57,000 units during the week ended Nov. 24, the day marking the official kick-off to the holiday season.

Based on the quote - that total of 57,000 is from Friday the 17th to Friday the 24, which includes Black Friday. That seems very low with all the sales the A2 and A3 were having.

So this number does not include the rest of the weekend - Sat. and Sun

And on Monday the 29th - the total of HD DVD devices sold was 750,000.

OBTW - $200 to $400 is a 100% price difference. $200 to $300 would be a 50% price difference.

crazyal · 12-08-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Reb

All of the 40GB PS3's came with Spiderman 3 in the box. I guess that means that almost 100% of the 40GB model buyers have seen a Blu Ray movie.

They may have seen a Blu-Ray disc but I wonder how many of those movies got played on a SDTV in some kids room once then left out of it's case only to be damaged and forgotten about. Yes that's some experience talking. I've watched my GF boy's and every movie that they've gotten their hands on I have found in the bottom of a closet or mixed in with other crap out of it's case.

12-08-2007, 04:34 PM	#46
crazyal Smarter than the ave bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,312	It's funny. Those who support BD want to include the PS3 when people are talking about stand alone players but when things like attach rates come up it's a who different story. The HD DVD supporters keep saying not all PS3s are being used as players, never once heard any HD DVD supporter say the PS3 doesn't count as a BD player. If every one always counted that would put the BD attach rate in the toilet. __________________ Please don't feed the Unicorns

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