DVD Forum approves 51GB triple-layer HD DVD spec

[ThePug]

Where's your god now, Blu Ray?

Toshiba's been demoing a triple-layer hybrid HD DVD / DVD system for a couple years now, but it's been all unofficial until today, when the DVD Forum steering committee voted to approve the spec as part of the official HD DVD standard. The third 15GB layer bumps the total capacity of HD DVD up to 51GB, matching Blu-ray's 50GB disks. Of course, we wouldn't expect to see a flood of content on the new disks anytime soon, what with all those shiny new double-layer players getting sold right now, but it's interesting to see HD DVD step up in the one area Blu-ray was clearly superior. The stalemate continues!

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/15/d...r-hd-dvd-spec/

[PFC5]

Welcome to the forum!

There is already a thread on this here:

40th DVD Forum Steering Committee Meeting Results

But you have the better thread title that clearly labels it.

[ThePug]

Originally Posted by PFC5

Welcome to the forum!

There is already a thread on this here:

40th DVD Forum Steering Committee Meeting Results

But you have the better thread title that clearly labels it.

Read that thread before posting this. Saw what bruceames said and decided to go ahead and post it.

Thanks for the welcome.

[DKwhite]

Originally Posted by ThePug

Where's your god now, Blu Ray?



http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/15/d...r-hd-dvd-spec/

what with all those shiny new double-layer players getting sold right now

I'm assuming this means current players will NOT be able to play the new disks?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by DKwhite

I'm assuming this means current players will NOT be able to play the new disks?

From what I've read:

G3 players: Yes
G2 players: probably
G1 players: maybe


The critical players are the G2 (A2, A20, XA2...and the add-on). Those really need to be capable of playing them or the spec will probably not ever be used on mainstream media in the future. I'm crossing my fingers.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by bruceames

From what I've read:

G3 players: Yes
G2 players: probably
G1 players: maybe


The critical players are the G2 (A2, A20, XA2...and the add-on). Those really need to be capable of playing them or the spec will probably not ever be used on mainstream media in the future. I'm crossing my fingers.

The Gen1 HD DVD players have an NEC drive in them - not a Toshiba drive. And this shows what the NEC drive can read:



By going from 45GB to 51GB it was found that the drives can read the data easier.

The Gen2 and Gen3 have the exact same drive in them

You will also notice that the DL and TL Twin are also listed on the chart - from NEC BTW.

[bruceames]

You're right, Lee. If they have the same drive and the G3 are very likely to read the TL51s, then the G2 would be as well. Is there anything besides the drive that would affect the probably that they would work?

Anyway, it's very encouraging that we'll see TL51s next year.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by bruceames

You're right, Lee. If they have the same drive and the G3 are very likely to read the TL51s, then the G2 would be as well. Is there anything besides the drive that would affect the probably that they would work?

Anyway, it's very encouraging that we'll see TL51s next year.

When I say "drive" I also include the laser pickup. This consists of the triple laser diode and the focal lens - all the same for the 3 generations

Worst case scenerio - a FW UP is needed.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Worst case scenerio - a FW UP is needed.

Wow, I hope you're right. It's exiting to think it could really happen.

I heard that Disney voted in favor of the TL51. Is there any meaning behind this? Do they realize also that TL51 is for real and they may jump on board when it becomes reality?

[PFC5]

I think that ALL HD DVD players will play the TL 51GB disc from what I have read. As Lee stated, going from 15GB per layer to 17GB per layer actually IMPROVED the readability of the disc.

Once we see a TL 51Gb disc we will know for sure but it looks very likely to me. I am as excited about the possibility of seeing a DL 34GB discs as well. Just having the data 13% closed together should improve the bandwidth by about 13% also.

[crazyal]

I'm sure the only questions are what will happen once we mass produce them and the tollerances aren't as tight. I'm sure they are looking into yeilds right now and what plants can make them. I'm sure at least one movie will make it out on a TL very soon (just for bragging rights).

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by PFC5

I think that ALL HD DVD players will play the TL 51GB disc from what I have read. As Lee stated, going from 15GB per layer to 17GB per layer actually IMPROVED the readability of the disc.

Once we see a TL 51Gb disc we will know for sure but it looks very likely to me. I am as excited about the possibility of seeing a DL 34GB discs as well. Just having the data 13% closed together should improve the bandwidth by about 13% also.

That one is a myth - I know you are going to say; "well they can now do 17 GB per layer so why not upgrade both the 15 and 30 to 17 and 34."

There is nothing whatsoever to lead us to believe that this is being done.

I am trying to chase down a myth right now . . .

That with a FW UP, Toshiba will be able to go from 1X speed to 2X speed because the drive have this capability built into them. This would put the MUX rate at 60.48 Mbps.

But it may be one of those "Once Upon A Time" stories.

[PFC5]

I understand about the SL/DL 17GB/layer being a myth since they never tried to get approval for it, but that would be nice as well. That is why I said "possibility".

I remember reading that they were only looking to increase the disc spin speed to 1.5x not 2x, but either would be fine if they can do it.

Let us know.

[Lee Stewart]

Well I have gotten a hold of the tail of the myth I alluded to.

The info is posted on WIKI (to the right at the top of the page underneath the HD DVD logo):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

Read mechanism: 1x@36 Mbit/s & 2x@72 Mbit/s

But that 36 Mbit rate is the raw data transfer rate.

I don't know what to make of this. Could it be associated with a HD DVD RW format?

I need to look into this and see why WIKI is listing this info.

More to come later . . .

[Super XP]

Originally Posted by DKwhite

I'm assuming this means current players will NOT be able to play the new disks?

Toshiba already new about the Tripple Layer 51GB discs before then ever released the HD DVD format. They had quite a few prototypes including a 35GB & a 45GB if my memory serves me well.

And reading up on the DVD Forum, they will make sure they are completely compatable or they will not approve them.