New AVS rules a major win for Blu-Ray fans

Revolv · 11-09-2007, 07:33 AM

Well, we knew that AVS would probably re-do their rules while they shut down the HD sections - but we all probably had no idea how much the rules would be tilted to Blu-ray supporters.

It is now illegal to talk about player sales numbers!!

But yet - it is perfectly OK to talk about the Nielsen, and only the Nielsen, numbers that BD fans are so fond of.

No discussion about anything that might show a coming reversal of the format war positions.

I'm also guessing it'll now be illegal for folks to discuss that they've discovered a great Black Friday sale at Walmart or Sears for $150 Toshiba A3's...!

Below is a quote from their new HD section's rules - with some commentary...

Quote:

Originally Posted by new AVS HD section rules

So along these lines, we feel the following information does not have a need to be on this site and will be removed as reported or seen.

Number of player units sold. Wow - this is targeted DIRECTLY at HD DVD posters, since this is where HD DVD is beating Bluray BADly.
Number of disc titles and format types sold.
(Unless from a disinterested third party site like Nelson where real numbers are tracked) So Grubert gets to keep his Nielsen thread going, but all other sales threads are taboo from now - why didn't they just ban ALL sales discussion???

"X is winning" type posts. So talking about the fact that the war is reversing and HD DVD has taken the lead would be illegal
"I support X so deal with it."
No Trolling or posting just inciting others. Good rule
Accusing of someone of being a paid shill. (If you have proof, show us.) Considering most of the paid shills are Sony posters...?
Posting of information that can not be verified but is stated as fact. (Proof?) No more rumours or inside info then...
Attacking another site for their thoughts on the subject. Bluray.com is now a protected species...
Attacking other members of the press or media.
Promoting other sites.Looks like Bill Hunt has now got some help...
No petitions posts. take that, rdjam!
No "Buy Days" to support going out to purchase on a certain day. Considering that AVS was the only site with a good number of HD DVD supporters, bluray.com will now be the only "buy day" voice in town... Yeah, that's fair

As always, no hacking chat. Now that BD+ is hacked, let's keep that info under wraps... no one stopped talk on it before, it'll be interesting to see how tightly this is controlled...

Looks like a lot, sure. But we believe the above are some of the items that make it worse on this site for it's members who then get into back and forth over it. Some of the above are worse than others, some just really have no place here. Their are other sites that allow it, this is not one. Moderators will try to be fair and objective. It is not the letter of the law, but more the spirit of the rule. We do what we can.

What can you chat about? Here is a simple example...

Need help with a player?
Have an issue with a title playing? Expect loads of BD undercover posts talking about how their HD player doesn't work... these will have to be countered without breaking a new rule...
Talk about the movies and quality in the proper area.
Technical aspects
Updates, Patches
Being helpful to others when you can be.
Etc.

All in all no real need to attack each other, for remember, it is one thing to debate and another thing to attack. You can chat about the formats without getting into personal attacks and the "who is winning". We want these AVS sections to again be under control and helpful to it's members and guests. (and the industry for technical issues and what have you.)

Please also be aware that this also applies to signatures and private messages.

What will happen if someone continues this on the site? Account Suspensions, Accounts Banned, IP's Banned and ISP's notified if needed, and for the worst offenders, all posts made to this site, even if thousands, removed for the member. Please note...THIS IS YOUR ONLY NOTICE ON THIS.

Lee Stewart · 11-09-2007, 07:38 AM

How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?

Madhatter · 11-09-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?

Here's an idea. Get in touch with the people at Nielsen and ask to why they don't include Walmart figures. Maybe you can convince them to start including them.

MikeRox · 11-09-2007, 07:43 AM

It's Wal Mart that tell them where to go I guess.

Lee Stewart · 11-09-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Here's an idea. Get in touch with the people at Nielsen and ask to why they don't include Walmart figures. Maybe you can convince them to start including them.

Ah . . everyone knows why. WM for years has refused to divulge POS data to any 3rd party. I believe that decision was made in 1999. Previous to this they did report POS data.

Madhatter · 11-09-2007, 07:51 AM

Then organize a campaign against Walmart. I'm sure you have the know how and plenty of time to do it. That way maybe all this "we could have had xxx amount of ratio" talk can be put to rest.

**bruceames** · 11-09-2007, 07:54 AM

You can still post rumors according to the rules. It says

Quote:

Posting of information that can not be verified but is stated as fact.

.

Since your still allowed to express opinion, maybe you can say "their's a rumor going around that Toshiba sold 100k players.."
Oh wait...that breaks another rule. Doh!

I can understand everything except the no sales talk. (Although I think prohibiting buy day threads and petitions in your sig is pretty lame. As for 'hacking', I don't believe Slysoft did anything illegal) If their going to cut that out, they shouldn't just include just Nielson and let Grubert keep his holy thread as it makes the war out to be just a Nielson battle and it's deceptive to lurkers who would visit there looking for a balance of info.

Lee Stewart · 11-09-2007, 07:58 AM

Well the first two threads were posted . . and one was immediately removed after 4 posts - the article on Sir Howard calling the war a Stalemate.

Lee Stewart · 11-09-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Then organize a campaign against Walmart. I'm sure you have the know how and plenty of time to do it. That way maybe all this "we could have had xxx amount of ratio" talk can be put to rest.

Madhatter · 11-09-2007, 08:04 AM

You are always complaining about Neilsen ratings not counting the Walmart sales, and when I offer suggestions you don't want to hear it.

11-09-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Well the first two threads were posted . . and one was immediately removed after 4 posts - the article on Sir Howard calling the war a Stalemate.

...which is being posted right on their front page (but may not be discussed, as it would appear)

Fkyou · 11-09-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

You are always complaining about Neilsen ratings not counting the Walmart sales, and when I offer suggestions you don't want to hear it.

I have to agree, that was a valid post to push Walmart to report their numbers.

Dare · 11-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Interesting... the iron curtain closes around AVS just when things are looking up for HD-DVD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?

Do you think that Wal-Mart would sell a disproportionately higher percentage of HD-DVDs vs. Blu-rays than anywhere else that they are available? Enough of a difference to tip the balance? I can see how not including Wal-mart would affect total sales numbers, but would the market share percentages be any different?

Lee Stewart · 11-09-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fkyou

I have to agree, that was a valid post to push Walmart to report their numbers.

I believe thay call it "pissing in the wind."

WM does not want ANYONE to know their sales data. It is for internal use only.

Look at their threat of legal action for anyone caught divulging their Black Friday ad info.

cbcdesign · 11-09-2007, 08:23 AM

Oh well, I guess AVS HD Forums will be pretty dull now, so be it. Clearly whomeever thought up these new rules doesn't think that Nielson ever put a foot wrong dispite their woefully inaccurate "Guestimate" on how many Transformer HD DVD titles sold. Time to ignore AVS as a balanced forum I suppose.

11-09-2007, 07:43 AM	#4
MikeRox Connoisseur of Fine Games Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 15,756	It's Wal Mart that tell them where to go I guess. __________________ Currently Playing: Xenoblade Chronicles, Ridge Racer 3D, DIRT 3

Similar Threads to New AVS rules a major win for Blu-Ray fans
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why I think Blu Ray will win the Format War	venomxr8	High Definition Media	82	07-17-2009 06:10 PM
The Beginner's Guide to HDTV	mswoods1	The High Definition Lounge	19	04-28-2008 02:03 PM
If you didnt have a HD machine today, would you still buy a Blu Ray Player?	connerc_37	High Definition Media	54	02-20-2008 05:09 AM
What are all the differences between HD DVD and Blu Ray? Huh?	mswoods1	High Definition Media	75	01-17-2008 04:44 PM

11-09-2007, 07:38 AM	#2
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . . QUESTION: How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?

11-09-2007, 07:51 AM	#6
Madhatter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 409	Then organize a campaign against Walmart. I'm sure you have the know how and plenty of time to do it. That way maybe all this "we could have had xxx amount of ratio" talk can be put to rest.

11-09-2007, 07:58 AM	#8
Lee Stewart Muscle Cars Forever! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 35,092	Well the first two threads were posted . . and one was immediately removed after 4 posts - the article on Sir Howard calling the war a Stalemate.

11-09-2007, 08:04 AM	#10
Madhatter High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 409	You are always complaining about Neilsen ratings not counting the Walmart sales, and when I offer suggestions you don't want to hear it.

11-09-2007, 08:23 AM	#15
cbcdesign High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Somerset, UK Posts: 1,394	Oh well, I guess AVS HD Forums will be pretty dull now, so be it. Clearly whomeever thought up these new rules doesn't think that Nielson ever put a foot wrong dispite their woefully inaccurate "Guestimate" on how many Transformer HD DVD titles sold. Time to ignore AVS as a balanced forum I suppose.