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New AVS rules a major win for Blu-Ray fans

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Old 11-09-2007, 07:33 AM   #1
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Default New AVS rules a major win for Blu-Ray fans

Well, we knew that AVS would probably re-do their rules while they shut down the HD sections - but we all probably had no idea how much the rules would be tilted to Blu-ray supporters.

It is now illegal to talk about player sales numbers!! But yet - it is perfectly OK to talk about the Nielsen, and only the Nielsen, numbers that BD fans are so fond of.

No discussion about anything that might show a coming reversal of the format war positions.

I'm also guessing it'll now be illegal for folks to discuss that they've discovered a great Black Friday sale at Walmart or Sears for $150 Toshiba A3's...!

Below is a quote from their new HD section's rules - with some commentary...

Quote:
Originally Posted by new AVS HD section rules
So along these lines, we feel the following information does not have a need to be on this site and will be removed as reported or seen.

Number of player units sold. Wow - this is targeted DIRECTLY at HD DVD posters, since this is where HD DVD is beating Bluray BADly.
Number of disc titles and format types sold.
(Unless from a disinterested third party site like Nelson where real numbers are tracked) So Grubert gets to keep his Nielsen thread going, but all other sales threads are taboo from now - why didn't they just ban ALL sales discussion???

"X is winning" type posts. So talking about the fact that the war is reversing and HD DVD has taken the lead would be illegal
"I support X so deal with it."
No Trolling or posting just inciting others. Good rule
Accusing of someone of being a paid shill. (If you have proof, show us.) Considering most of the paid shills are Sony posters...?
Posting of information that can not be verified but is stated as fact. (Proof?) No more rumours or inside info then...
Attacking another site for their thoughts on the subject. Bluray.com is now a protected species...
Attacking other members of the press or media.
Promoting other sites.Looks like Bill Hunt has now got some help...
No petitions posts. take that, rdjam!
No "Buy Days" to support going out to purchase on a certain day. Considering that AVS was the only site with a good number of HD DVD supporters, bluray.com will now be the only "buy day" voice in town... Yeah, that's fair
As always, no hacking chat. Now that BD+ is hacked, let's keep that info under wraps... no one stopped talk on it before, it'll be interesting to see how tightly this is controlled...

Looks like a lot, sure. But we believe the above are some of the items that make it worse on this site for it's members who then get into back and forth over it. Some of the above are worse than others, some just really have no place here. Their are other sites that allow it, this is not one. Moderators will try to be fair and objective. It is not the letter of the law, but more the spirit of the rule. We do what we can.

What can you chat about? Here is a simple example...

Need help with a player?
Have an issue with a title playing? Expect loads of BD undercover posts talking about how their HD player doesn't work... these will have to be countered without breaking a new rule...
Talk about the movies and quality in the proper area.
Technical aspects
Updates, Patches
Being helpful to others when you can be.
Etc.

All in all no real need to attack each other, for remember, it is one thing to debate and another thing to attack. You can chat about the formats without getting into personal attacks and the "who is winning". We want these AVS sections to again be under control and helpful to it's members and guests. (and the industry for technical issues and what have you.)

Please also be aware that this also applies to signatures and private messages.

What will happen if someone continues this on the site? Account Suspensions, Accounts Banned, IP's Banned and ISP's notified if needed, and for the worst offenders, all posts made to this site, even if thousands, removed for the member. Please note...THIS IS YOUR ONLY NOTICE ON THIS.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:38 AM   #2
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How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?
Here's an idea. Get in touch with the people at Nielsen and ask to why they don't include Walmart figures. Maybe you can convince them to start including them.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:43 AM   #4
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It's Wal Mart that tell them where to go I guess.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter View Post
Here's an idea. Get in touch with the people at Nielsen and ask to why they don't include Walmart figures. Maybe you can convince them to start including them.
Ah . . everyone knows why. WM for years has refused to divulge POS data to any 3rd party. I believe that decision was made in 1999. Previous to this they did report POS data.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:51 AM   #6
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Then organize a campaign against Walmart. I'm sure you have the know how and plenty of time to do it. That way maybe all this "we could have had xxx amount of ratio" talk can be put to rest.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:54 AM   #7
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You can still post rumors according to the rules. It says

Quote:
Posting of information that can not be verified but is stated as fact.
.

Since your still allowed to express opinion, maybe you can say "their's a rumor going around that Toshiba sold 100k players.."
Oh wait...that breaks another rule. Doh!

I can understand everything except the no sales talk. (Although I think prohibiting buy day threads and petitions in your sig is pretty lame. As for 'hacking', I don't believe Slysoft did anything illegal) If their going to cut that out, they shouldn't just include just Nielson and let Grubert keep his holy thread as it makes the war out to be just a Nielson battle and it's deceptive to lurkers who would visit there looking for a balance of info.

Last edited by bruceames; 11-09-2007 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:58 AM   #8
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Well the first two threads were posted . . and one was immediately removed after 4 posts - the article on Sir Howard calling the war a Stalemate.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter View Post
Then organize a campaign against Walmart. I'm sure you have the know how and plenty of time to do it. That way maybe all this "we could have had xxx amount of ratio" talk can be put to rest.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:04 AM   #10
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You are always complaining about Neilsen ratings not counting the Walmart sales, and when I offer suggestions you don't want to hear it.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Well the first two threads were posted . . and one was immediately removed after 4 posts - the article on Sir Howard calling the war a Stalemate.
...which is being posted right on their front page (but may not be discussed, as it would appear)
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madhatter View Post
You are always complaining about Neilsen ratings not counting the Walmart sales, and when I offer suggestions you don't want to hear it.

I have to agree, that was a valid post to push Walmart to report their numbers.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:17 AM   #13
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Interesting... the iron curtain closes around AVS just when things are looking up for HD-DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
How to limit the importance of the Nielsens . . .

QUESTION:

How can the valadity of the Nielsens be accepted when they do not count Wal-Mart who is just now beginning to sell HDM software?
Do you think that Wal-Mart would sell a disproportionately higher percentage of HD-DVDs vs. Blu-rays than anywhere else that they are available? Enough of a difference to tip the balance? I can see how not including Wal-mart would affect total sales numbers, but would the market share percentages be any different?
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkyou View Post
I have to agree, that was a valid post to push Walmart to report their numbers.

I believe thay call it "pissing in the wind."

WM does not want ANYONE to know their sales data. It is for internal use only.

Look at their threat of legal action for anyone caught divulging their Black Friday ad info.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:23 AM   #15
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Oh well, I guess AVS HD Forums will be pretty dull now, so be it. Clearly whomeever thought up these new rules doesn't think that Nielson ever put a foot wrong dispite their woefully inaccurate "Guestimate" on how many Transformer HD DVD titles sold. Time to ignore AVS as a balanced forum I suppose.
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