HD DVD / Blu-ray disc Comparison - Before You Buy - You Need To Know!!!

Super XP · 11-08-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

[edit] HD DVD / Blu-ray disc comparison
Main article: Comparison of high definition optical disc formats
The primary rival to HD DVD is Blu-ray Disc. Currently, Blu-ray has the advantage in maximum disc capacity (50GB dual-layer versus 30GB dual-layer), but in September 2007 the DVD Forum approved the triple-layer 51GB HD DVD-ROM disc. As of 2007, the 51 GB HD DVD disc has only a preliminary specification, and no titles have been released. The first 50 GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc release[citation needed] was movie Click, on October 10, 2006, several months after the Blu-ray Disc format was released. As of September 2007 40% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB disc and 60% use the 25 GB disc[80] while almost all HD DVD movies are in the 30 GB dual layer format.[81]

In terms of audio/video compression, HD DVD and Blu-ray are similar on the surface: both support MPEG-2, VC-1, and H.264 for video compression. Virtually every HD DVD released uses an advanced codec (VC-1 or H.264) for video compression, reducing the required space for equivalent quality video. The first generation of Blu-ray Disc movies however used the older and less efficient video codec MPEG-2, and many new titles still do. In terms of audio, there are many differences. With HD DVD support for the new Dolby Digital Plus audio codec is mandatory at 3.0 Mbit/s, but for Blu-ray players it is optional at 1.7 Mbit/s.[42] Furthermore HD DVD players must be able to decode the new lossless audio codec Dolby True HD, but this is optional for Blu-ray players.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc support the 24p (traditional movie) frame rate, but technical implementations of this mode are different among the two formats. Blu-ray Disc supports 24p with its native timing, while HD DVD uses 60i timing for 24p (encoded progressively, replacing missing fields with "repeat field flags"). Decoders can ignore the “flags” to output 24p.[82] There is no impact on picture resolution or storage space as a result of this, as the HD DVD format uses the exact same video information—it simply adds notational overhead.

The formats differ in their support for interactivity, with HD DVD using Advanced Content and Blu-ray using BD-J. Every HD DVD player has the ability to play back two simultaneous video streams ("PIP") and connect to the internet, whilst early Blu-ray players have neither feature.

Since both formats launched in the spring of 2006, an estimated 4.98 million high-definition discs have been sold, including 3.01 million in Blu-ray and 1.97 million in HD DVD through the end of September.[83] However, those figures are dwarfed by the sales of regular DVDs. Combined, the two high-def disc formats accounted for only 2.5 % of overall disc sales during the first half of 2007.[84] And although Blu-ray has sold more discs, the HD DVD group claims that the attach rate (the number of movies bought per player) is higher for HD DVD than for Blu-ray.[85]

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A Table Comparing the High-definition Optical Media Formats
DVD included for comparison

Mandatory codecs must be supported by the player. Each disc must use one or more of the mandatory codecs.

As you can see HD DVD players have a mandatory Secondary Video Decoder & Secondary Audio Decoder. Dolby TrueHD is also Mandatory for HD DVD where as it is not for BD.
Blu-Ray IMO not having these mandatory specs is one of the problems with the BD format

mshulman · 11-08-2007, 02:29 PM

I really think there are at minimum two things someone buying in to either format needs to know.

1) Movie selection is different - check the titles that are "must haves" for you.

2) Read up on Blu-ray and its profiles. If being able to play future titles and all the features that go with them, then you will want a player that supports profile 2.0. PS3 is the only player today that MAY support this.

Other than that, is there really any surprise someone might get? PQ/AQ is all pretty much the same. I think the above are the only 2 items that could bite someone in the ass later.

**PFC5** · 11-08-2007, 02:41 PM

I think number 3 should be PQ/SQ is virtually the same, but with BD you pay 2-4x the price for it.

hippy fascist · 11-08-2007, 02:50 PM

and number 4 should be:

4.It's sony...do you mind paying between 10-15% sony tax for every disc you buy

deadeyedaryl · 11-08-2007, 02:55 PM

You got to remember on the audio codecs that a 8 kilobits/megabits is 1 kilobyte/megabyte.

mshulman · 11-08-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

I think number 3 should be PQ/SQ is virtually the same, but with BD you pay 2-4x the price for it.

I don't think player price is going to come to back to haunt anyone though so long as they know points #1 and #2.

The player is a one time investment. Movie prices are the big key. Although with the price difference one could afford $300 or more in movies

Nikopol · 11-08-2007, 03:04 PM

for anyone interested in importing or buying imported movies it is imo also important to know, that for the time being no HD DVDs have region coding and some (but not all) Blu-rays have region coding.

alvin · 11-08-2007, 03:52 PM

The way that prices are dropping, it won't be unrealistic for many households to own both players. It is somewhat silly that you may have to do this to view all of your favorite movies, but in a year it will most likely be very affordable.

Super XP · 11-08-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

The way that prices are dropping, it won't be unrealistic for many households to own both players. It is somewhat silly that you may have to do this to view all of your favorite movies, but in a year it will most likely be very affordable.

One format is going to die off, and Q4 2007 might spell that out. Two formats cannot be out at the same time. Just won't work.

This is VHS vs. Beta now, and we know what happend to BetaMax

The only difference is both HD DVD & BD have equal PQ & AQ right now.

BucJam07 · 11-08-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

The only difference is both HD DVD & BD have equal PQ & AQ right now.

If this is true then why do so many people defend each format like it's thier own personal crusade?

I own both a PS3 and an HDDVD player, I can care less who wins. I'm here to enjoy the ride not belittle one or the other. When one of these formats taps out, I'll be buying thier 1080p movies for far less than $40.00 a piece and continue to be happy, won't you?

**PFC5** · 11-08-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super XP

One format is going to die off, and Q4 2007 might spell that out. Two formats cannot be out at the same time. Just won't work.

This is VHS vs. Beta now, and we know what happend to BetaMax

The only difference is both HD DVD & BD have equal PQ & AQ right now.

But didn't that VHS vs Beta war take 8-12 years to play out?

If that is the example for both not surviving, then they will both be around until they are both replaced by the next great format that WILL be unified, but it will be many years from now.

Super XP · 11-08-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucJam07

If this is true then why do so many people defend each format like it's thier own personal crusade?

I own both a PS3 and an HDDVD player, I can care less who wins. I'm here to enjoy the ride not belittle one or the other. When one of these formats taps out, I'll be buying thier 1080p movies for far less than $40.00 a piece and continue to be happy, won't you?

The main difference IMO is HD DVD has a set of "Working" standards completely approved by the DVD Forum and almost guaranteed future compatibility with past, present & future products. HD DVD also has Mandatory Secondary Video Decoder, Secondary Audio Decoder & Dolby TrueHD. We are talking about true PIP along with the option to always have TrueHD whenever a HD DVD movie supports it etc. HD DVD is not plagued with all this different profile problems Blu-Ray is experiencing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC5

But didn't that VHS vs Beta war take 8-12 years to play out?

If that is the example for both not surviving, then they will both be around until they are both replaced by the next great format that WILL be unified, but it will be many years from now.

I think this HD war will end sooner than people really think. One reason why I think so is due to the fact that HD DVD/BD players have DVD compatability, so you are really not throwing out your DVD's. With VHS/Beta, it was a different story. Companies should really market HD DVD/BD players as advanced Hi def disc players (Or HD DVD should due to using the term DVD)
Right now it’s the Studio's which hold the balance. One example is whichever side Warner chooses, the other might have major problems in keeping up with Block Buster etc movie content, and therefore that formats library eventually dwindles away IMO.

This is why it’s extremely important for HD DVD to sell players like there was no tomorrow.

mshulman · 11-08-2007, 07:14 PM

I agree Super. My 2 main reasons for supporting HD DVD over blu-ray is simple.

1. HD DVD has all the features, specs and players that support it.

2. Combos/Twins. HD DVD thought about how we'll use our discs.

I think blu-ray was released a year or two too early. Had they waiting until Summer of 08, they'd have players that were complete and wouldn't need to be replaced. I just can't promote blu-ray because of the profile issues they have created for themselves.

Lee Stewart · 11-08-2007, 09:30 PM

IMO - HD DVD knew that because it was an evolutionary format:

1. It better be compatible with DVD - everyway possible, because it gave the best chance to replace DVD with HD DVD

2. Felt from the getgo that special features would be important to distinguish HD DVD from DVD. "If the higher PQ and AQ don't interest you . . . try these."

3. Uses existing DVD pressing lines and the actual structure of the disc mimicks DVD. Same disc - just more data on each layer.

4. Felt that pricing was a major issue. Wanted to get to mass adoption pricing as soon as possible. If you can sell something by the million(s) - you can make money. Especially because you mmake some of the more expensive parts like the motherboard and the actual drive (most expensive part of an HD player)

HD DVD is on the right road heading in the right direction. No longer an "if" but a "when."

art4mad · 11-09-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucJam07

If this is true then why do so many people defend each format like it's thier own personal crusade?

That says more about human nature than any real opinion in a format war.

I have supported HD DVD because I believe it's closer ties with DVD will be the deciding factor. I know many HD fans hate the combo or twin disc idea, but the twin disk is going to be the killer blow in the format war. Once that disk format is perfected and released, HD DVD need only convince studios who distribute HD DVD to release only twin disk versions of it's films, instead of a DVD and HD DVD version. If they'd been able to do that with "Transformers" alone, there would be 8.5 million HD DVD versions of that film in households right now. That's double the entire total of all HD disks sold so far put together. That is 4 times the "trojan horse" that the PS3 ever was in numbers alone, not to mention all the other films that would follow suit. If over the next year every consumer who bought a DVD of any movie other than the BD exclusives also had the HD DVD version through osmosis, which HD player would they buy when the time came? Couple that with the price advantage of HD DVD players and it would be all over.

The thing is I am not sure that the Twin disk is anywhere near ready for prime time yet, nor that the HD DVD camp can convince all studios to go twin vs dual release. Would production costs be too much higher for a twin vs. dual release? That would be a big factor.

11-08-2007, 02:41 PM	#3
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,331	I think number 3 should be PQ/SQ is virtually the same, but with BD you pay 2-4x the price for it. __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier

11-08-2007, 02:55 PM	#5
deadeyedaryl High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: southampton , UK Age: 19 Posts: 621	You got to remember on the audio codecs that a 8 kilobits/megabits is 1 kilobyte/megabyte. __________________ 50" HD plasma xbox 360/ + add on PS3 60GB HD-EP30 + 11 Xbox Live gamertag = Deadeyedaryl PSN = Deadeyedaryl http://www.bebo.com/deadeyedaryl

11-08-2007, 07:14 PM	#13
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,572	I agree Super. My 2 main reasons for supporting HD DVD over blu-ray is simple. 1. HD DVD has all the features, specs and players that support it. 2. Combos/Twins. HD DVD thought about how we'll use our discs. I think blu-ray was released a year or two too early. Had they waiting until Summer of 08, they'd have players that were complete and wouldn't need to be replaced. I just can't promote blu-ray because of the profile issues they have created for themselves. __________________ Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 PS3 Sanyo PLV-Z3 Canon HF-10 Onkyo 805 "I eat green berets for breakfast and I'm very hungry!"

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11-08-2007, 02:29 PM	#2
mshulman My Projector is High Def. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Marlborough, MA Age: 35 Posts: 6,572	I really think there are at minimum two things someone buying in to either format needs to know. 1) Movie selection is different - check the titles that are "must haves" for you. 2) Read up on Blu-ray and its profiles. If being able to play future titles and all the features that go with them, then you will want a player that supports profile 2.0. PS3 is the only player today that MAY support this. Other than that, is there really any surprise someone might get? PQ/AQ is all pretty much the same. I think the above are the only 2 items that could bite someone in the ass later. __________________ Toshiba HD-A2 and HD-A3 PS3 Sanyo PLV-Z3 Canon HF-10 Onkyo 805 "I eat green berets for breakfast and I'm very hungry!"

11-08-2007, 02:50 PM	#4
hippy fascist Illusions Michael! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 694	and number 4 should be: 4.It's sony...do you mind paying between 10-15% sony tax for every disc you buy

11-08-2007, 03:04 PM	#7
Nikopol Uwe Boll's my hero Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maelstrom Blu-rays: 14 Age: 4 Posts: 6,374	for anyone interested in importing or buying imported movies it is imo also important to know, that for the time being no HD DVDs have region coding and some (but not all) Blu-rays have region coding.

11-08-2007, 03:52 PM	#8
alvin A couch and an HDTV to go please. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 12	The way that prices are dropping, it won't be unrealistic for many households to own both players. It is somewhat silly that you may have to do this to view all of your favorite movies, but in a year it will most likely be very affordable.

11-08-2007, 09:30 PM	#14
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,188	IMO - HD DVD knew that because it was an evolutionary format: 1. It better be compatible with DVD - everyway possible, because it gave the best chance to replace DVD with HD DVD 2. Felt from the getgo that special features would be important to distinguish HD DVD from DVD. "If the higher PQ and AQ don't interest you . . . try these." 3. Uses existing DVD pressing lines and the actual structure of the disc mimicks DVD. Same disc - just more data on each layer. 4. Felt that pricing was a major issue. Wanted to get to mass adoption pricing as soon as possible. If you can sell something by the million(s) - you can make money. Especially because you mmake some of the more expensive parts like the motherboard and the actual drive (most expensive part of an HD player) HD DVD is on the right road heading in the right direction. No longer an "if" but a "when."