Sony DADC Produces 10 Millionth 50 Gigabyte Blu-ray Disc

GLOW · 10-02-2007, 11:02 AM

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4674217&EDATE=

Could someone help me, please. If BD50 yields are at 40% and Sony DADC alone has produced 10,000,000 BD50's, how many discs did they have to do altogether? 4 billion, is it?

When is David Vaughn going to tell us where Sony's secret landfill of 3.9 billion discs is?

He should know. Afterall, he IS an insider. Right?

Lee Stewart · 10-02-2007, 11:05 AM

So throwing out 25% of your produced product is good? Please explain that to me; how am I, a disc manufacturer, supposed to make a profit throwing out 1 out of every 4 discs produced.

?

GLOW · 10-02-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

So throwing out 25% of your produced product is good? Please explain that to me; how am I, a disc manufacturer, supposed to make a profit throwing out 1 out of every 4 discs produced.

?

I don't believe that RUMOR. Until someone provides solid evidence or the BDA announces it, I'll assume yields are much higher than 40%. Last September I remember people were saying that yields were at over 80%.

Lee Stewart · 10-02-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

I don't believe that RUMOR. Until someone provides solid evidence or the BDA announces it, I'll assume yields are much higher than 40%. Last September I remember people were saying that yields were at over 80%.

Rumor? Sony just announced that the yield rate is 75% for the BD50. That means 25% are rejected and tossed out. This is from your OP.

GLOW · 10-02-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

Rumor? Sony just announced that the yield rate is 75% for the BD50. That means 25% are rejected and tossed out. This is from your OP.

Oops, I meant to say BD25. Still ~75% is pretty good for such new and groundbreaking tech.

Let's not forget that one of the best looking discs on either format is MPEG-2 on a BD25.

MidnightWatche · 10-02-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4674217&EDATE=

Could someone help me, please. If BD50 yields are at 40% and Sony DADC alone has produced 10,000,000 BD50's, how many discs did they have to do altogether? 4 billion, is it?

When is David Vaughn going to tell us where Sony's secret landfill of 3.9 billion discs is?

He should know. Afterall, he IS an insider. Right?

GLOW, maybe you're bright enough to share with us just how many million BD50 discs were thrown away out of the 50 million produced? To achieve a yield rate of 75-79%, how much did they need to reduce the cycle time?

MikeRox · 10-02-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

Let's not forget that one of the best looking discs on either format is MPEG-2 on a BD25.

So you now agree that 50gb clearly isn't needed for a "better image"? :P

BobY · 10-02-2007, 12:11 PM

Lots of interesting figures there.

Look at the number of 50GB discs they've produced compared to total BD output!

They don't say they are actually counting *good* 50GB discs, only the number they've produced (although I do expect Sony's lines have better yields that third parties).

They don't say how many of the 50GB discs have much less than 50GB of content because the yield falls as the data gets nearer the outer edge.

Glow-

Get real. They've been making 50GB BD for over a year now, not for a few months. In the world of CE, that's a *mature* product. Throwing away 25% of your product is HORRENDOUS. If your new technology only has 75% yield, you don't introduce it until you've gotten something acceptable.

neal77 · 10-02-2007, 02:40 PM

Have they even sold 10 million bluray copies yet? I thought most of the bluray movies were on the smaller disc?

MikeRox · 10-02-2007, 03:35 PM

Don't think they've even sold 2 million Blu Ray movies worldwide yet, and as you say, most of them were on 25gb discs. Even if every PS3 titles was on a 50gb disc it would barely reach 10m.

**PFC5** · 10-02-2007, 04:14 PM

I think this SHOWS that David Vaughn's info was CORRECT!

They made 10 million BD50 discs but how many are out in retail? EXACTLY!!!!!!!

I assume they will get yields up over time, but how much time? There are certain laws of physics that might make it impossible to get over a certain yield using that spin coating method. Again, laws of physics cannot be broken because Sony wishes they can break them.

They have sold less then 2 million BD discs of BOTH sizes with over half on BD25 so far, but they made 10 million BD50 discs? Where are the other 9 million? I know, I know, they are in the trash dump now.

Thanks for helping to PROVE David was correct with his info. As far as the 75% yields for BD50 discs, I would say Sony has to PROVE it and state HOW they are measuring yields. Are they counting every discs from when they turn the replication machines on, or after they spend x amount of time tweaking each machine daily for the optimum results? Are they even counting the discs that are junk while doing the daily setup for the machines?

Certainly some things have been answered, but I would not say it is GOOD answers for BD50 discs. It is BAD news considering there are 9 million BD50 discs unaccounted for.

Thanks GLOW!

Lee Stewart · 10-02-2007, 04:29 PM

So someone please explain to me how a manufacturer is supposed to make money when:

15% of all BD25's are thrown out

25% of all BD50's are thrown out

I used to work with manufacturing companies (sold rapid prototyping) and the accepted reject rate was between 3% and 5% for products made in the millions.

Sure Sony can afford big loses. What about the independent line owners?

You can't possibly make money with those reject rates.

crazyal · 10-02-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart

So someone please explain to me how a manufacturer is supposed to make money when:

15% of all BD25's are thrown out

25% of all BD50's are thrown out

I used to work with manufacturing companies (sold rapid prototyping) and the accepted reject rate was between 3% and 5% for products made in the millions.

Sure Sony can afford big loses. What about the independent line owners?

You can't possibly make money with those reject rates.

That depends on how the cotract is written. My guess is the independants say they want 100,000 copies then it's up to Sony (or whoever) to make them 100,000 copies for the agreed price. If there's a yeild problem based on the master that was given to copy from then it's not replicator's fault. If it's because they can't make 100,000 without throwing 25,000 away then either the agreed apon price will reflect it so the replicator can make a profit or the replicator will eat the added cost and make less/ loose money on the deal.

What's really going to add up is the testing of the discs. I have to believe SD DVD's yeilds are as high as they will ever get (probably close to 100%) and they don't bother testing them. If somebody gets a bad one you just return it for a new one. But if 1 in 5 (or worse) is bad then you can't ship them out untested.

Lee Stewart · 10-02-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyal

That depends on how the cotract is written. My guess is the independants say they want 100,000 copies then it's up to Sony (or whoever) to make them 100,000 copies for the agreed price. If there's a yeild problem based on the master that was given to copy from then it's not replicator's fault. If it's because they can't make 100,000 without throwing 25,000 away then either the agreed apon price will reflect it so the replicator can make a profit or the replicator will eat the added cost and make less/ loose money on the deal.

What's really going to add up is the testing of the discs. I have to believe SD DVD's yeilds are as high as they will ever get (probably close to 100%) and they don't bother testing them. If somebody gets a bad one you just return it for a new one. But if 1 in 5 (or worse) is bad then you can't ship them out untested.

They do inspect discs - just not ALL produced (random sample after first 100?). here is a company that makes the equipment to test discs:

http://www.datarius.com/products/inspect.html

Super XP · 10-02-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyal

That depends on how the cotract is written. My guess is the independants say they want 100,000 copies then it's up to Sony (or whoever) to make them 100,000 copies for the agreed price. If there's a yeild problem based on the master that was given to copy from then it's not replicator's fault. If it's because they can't make 100,000 without throwing 25,000 away then either the agreed apon price will reflect it so the replicator can make a profit or the replicator will eat the added cost and make less/ loose money on the deal.

What's really going to add up is the testing of the discs. I have to believe SD DVD's yeilds are as high as they will ever get (probably close to 100%) and they don't bother testing them. If somebody gets a bad one you just return it for a new one. But if 1 in 5 (or worse) is bad then you can't ship them out untested.

Sony is either bleeding money out of their head or something does not make sense.

10-02-2007, 11:02 AM	#1
GLOW PUBLIC ENEMY #1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chi 'til I die Age: 30 Posts: 7,647	Sony DADC Produces 10 Millionth 50 Gigabyte Blu-ray Disc http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4674217&EDATE= Could someone help me, please. If BD50 yields are at 40% and Sony DADC alone has produced 10,000,000 BD50's, how many discs did they have to do altogether? 4 billion, is it? When is David Vaughn going to tell us where Sony's secret landfill of 3.9 billion discs is? He should know. Afterall, he IS an insider. Right? __________________ "In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria." - Benjamin Franklin

10-02-2007, 02:40 PM	#9
neal77 High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: L.A. California Posts: 495	Have they even sold 10 million bluray copies yet? I thought most of the bluray movies were on the smaller disc? __________________ HD-DVDS: 155 DVD's: 1,800 SHARP 52" 52d92u LCD TV XBOX360 ELITE HD-DVD ADD ON Toshiba A30

10-02-2007, 04:14 PM	#11
PFC5 Super Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28,383	I think this SHOWS that David Vaughn's info was CORRECT! They made 10 million BD50 discs but how many are out in retail? EXACTLY!!!!!!! I assume they will get yields up over time, but how much time? There are certain laws of physics that might make it impossible to get over a certain yield using that spin coating method. Again, laws of physics cannot be broken because Sony wishes they can break them. They have sold less then 2 million BD discs of BOTH sizes with over half on BD25 so far, but they made 10 million BD50 discs? Where are the other 9 million? I know, I know, they are in the trash dump now. Thanks for helping to PROVE David was correct with his info. As far as the 75% yields for BD50 discs, I would say Sony has to PROVE it and state HOW they are measuring yields. Are they counting every discs from when they turn the replication machines on, or after they spend x amount of time tweaking each machine daily for the optimum results? Are they even counting the discs that are junk while doing the daily setup for the machines? Certainly some things have been answered, but I would not say it is GOOD answers for BD50 discs. It is BAD news considering there are 9 million BD50 discs unaccounted for. Thanks GLOW! __________________ Denon AVR-887 Klipsch RP-5 Pwred Towers (mains) (525 watts peak each 12"Subs) All Klipsch RC-25(ctr),(2)SS1(surr),(2)SS1(rearSurr) Toshiba (2)HD-A20,PS3,BD35 For SACD/DVD-A Samsung HD-841 Panny 50pz80u plasma SETTINGS RCA HD50LPW162 50"DLP w/HD2+ SA 3250HD 47" LCD+Yamaha5790+HD-A1(bedroom) Harmony 680 + (2) 670s (amazing remote/support) Game room with Onkyo receiver & B&W Speakers The_Cable_Game Take the high ground and be happier Last edited by PFC5; 10-02-2007 at 04:18 PM.

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10-02-2007, 11:05 AM	#2
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	So throwing out 25% of your produced product is good? Please explain that to me; how am I, a disc manufacturer, supposed to make a profit throwing out 1 out of every 4 discs produced. ?

10-02-2007, 12:11 PM	#8
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	Lots of interesting figures there. Look at the number of 50GB discs they've produced compared to total BD output! They don't say they are actually counting good 50GB discs, only the number they've produced (although I do expect Sony's lines have better yields that third parties). They don't say how many of the 50GB discs have much less than 50GB of content because the yield falls as the data gets nearer the outer edge. Glow- Get real. They've been making 50GB BD for over a year now, not for a few months. In the world of CE, that's a mature product. Throwing away 25% of your product is HORRENDOUS. If your new technology only has 75% yield, you don't introduce it until you've gotten something acceptable.

10-02-2007, 03:35 PM	#10
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 12,416	Don't think they've even sold 2 million Blu Ray movies worldwide yet, and as you say, most of them were on 25gb discs. Even if every PS3 titles was on a 50gb disc it would barely reach 10m.

10-02-2007, 04:29 PM	#12
Lee Stewart Behold - the future! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Albuquerque, NM Age: 58 Posts: 25,193	So someone please explain to me how a manufacturer is supposed to make money when: 15% of all BD25's are thrown out 25% of all BD50's are thrown out I used to work with manufacturing companies (sold rapid prototyping) and the accepted reject rate was between 3% and 5% for products made in the millions. Sure Sony can afford big loses. What about the independent line owners? You can't possibly make money with those reject rates.