Why Blu-Ray should never win this Hi Def Format War.

Stew4HD · 10-16-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Yep you're right....oh except for the fact that they don't feel they have enough capacity which is why they're trying to make an HD51 disc.

Oh and of course the 360 add-on, which cannot output lossless audio, which makes a bit of a mockery of the "mandatory TrueHD" argument, because it's really only 2-channel decoding of TrueHD that's mandatory which is about as useful as tits on a bull.

Oh and of course then there's the idea of trying to get the bandwidth up to 1.5x which would be....wait for it....the same as Blu-ray!!

Grasping at straws, are we? Nice try but no points for you. The 51TL is tauted to replace the 2-sided combos, but you know that. The AO is for those with a 360 already and a cheap way to get into HD, but you knew that already too.

Do you really think the MAJORITY of people give a rats ass about lossless audio? NO, resoundlingly, NO! You techno junkies parade things like 1080p, 1080p/24, lossless audio like it's everything. It is to you but not to most people... shit, most people don't even have a an AVR to go with their HDTVs, so what good would they get out of lossless?.. hello, come back to earth now.
BEEEP, try again

dobyblue · 10-16-2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew4HD

Grasping at straws, are we? Nice try but no points for you. The 51TL is tauted to replace the 2-sided combos, but you know that. The AO is for those with a 360 already and a cheap way to get into HD, but you knew that already too.

Do you really think the MAJORITY of people give a rats ass about lossless audio? NO, resoundlingly, NO! You techno junkies parade things like 1080p, 1080p/24, lossless audio like it's everything. It is to you but not to most people... shit, most people don't even have a an AVR to go with their HDTVs, so what good would they get out of lossless?.. hello, come back to earth now.
BEEEP, try again

Um.....have you seen the sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD? The only people buying it ARE technophiles so get a grip on yourself and stop settling for mediocrity.

Go back to DVD if you don't care about getting the most out of HD formats, that's just sad man.

MikeRox · 10-16-2007, 04:04 PM

settling for medicrity? I find HD DVD the far better format from a completion perspective. But then I have more interest in interesting (dismiss them all you want, there are some incredibly intriguing IME features now) special features than lossless audio even audiophiles seem to be struggling to notice the difference with.

dobyblue · 10-16-2007, 07:12 PM

Lee is correct - this from Sony insider paidgeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by paidgeek

The new XBR sets will not only display 24p as 5:5, but they will also take 60i, convert it to 24p, then display it at 120hz 5:5. The downside of the latter is that it takes a few frames to lock on the cadence of the signal, so it is better to feed 24p if possible. Be sure to check out the "theatre" viewing mode as well. SPE helped out with that and it works well. It is designed to emulate the picture on a professional display.

Stew4HD · 10-16-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Um.....have you seen the sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD? The only people buying it ARE technophiles so get a grip on yourself and stop settling for mediocrity.

Go back to DVD if you don't care about getting the most out of HD formats, that's just sad man.

Aren't we just high and mighty? You are full of it, as always. Just because you are a number junkie, doesn't mean that everyone buying these players are. Why else would Wallyworld be selling them? So many techno junkies shopping there too??? Seriously, your head is in the clouds.

I am not talking about me but about WHO WILL DECIDE this war.

You are the one that needs to come back to reality. I have a system that can display 24p, 1080p and all the other buzz words you like to throw around. But you know what? To me, the audio is not THAT huge of an upgrade over DD 5.1, You can say what you want, talk all you want but I am not a minority here either.

I do buy SDs when I can't find it on HD but I sure don't need a bloated egomaniac like you to tell me what to buy.

BobY · 10-16-2007, 08:18 PM

I really have to chuckle over the Blu-Boys who decry HD DVD's "mediocrity" on paper, somehow preferring Blu-Ray's mediocrity in practice (25GB SL discs, MPEG2 encodes, missing audio capabilties, missing features, poor price/performance ratio, etc., etc.)

For an objective view of HD DVD's inferiority, try:

Exclusive Interview With Richard J. Casey Regarding The Format War & Nature's Journey

--Hmm, a quality-fixated professional whose company depends on producing superior quality video says that when maxed out, anyone would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between Blu-Ray and HD DVD and that both look superb. But apparently mediocre

Super XP · 10-16-2007, 08:49 PM

Nice info Boby

daleb · 10-16-2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

But apparently mediocre

Ahh, but different degrees of mediocrity!

Stew4HD · 10-17-2007, 04:13 AM

Awash in a sea of mediocrity... How often to we get to see that word used?

BobY, thanks for the catch.

Super XP · 10-17-2007, 05:41 AM

Some guy wrote that HD DVD player can not play SD DVD's back in Jan 2007

This is the kind of crap going around back then.

MARCMAK · 10-17-2007, 06:27 AM

Too expensive, who the hell does Blueray think they are? Like we can all afford B&W 801 matrix speakers, thats what they are making the comsumers feel, BLUECRAP for the rich! Well so be it, I also hope Microsoft drops the deal with sony, and sticks with Toshiba!

GLOW · 10-17-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARCMAK

Too expensive, who the hell does Blueray think they are? Like we can all afford B&W 801 matrix speakers, thats what they are making the comsumers feel, BLUECRAP for the rich! Well so be it, I also hope Microsoft drops the deal with sony, and sticks with Toshiba!

Ummmm....

GLOW · 10-17-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobY

(25GB SL discs, MPEG2 encodes, missing audio capabilties, missing features, poor price/performance ratio, etc., etc.)

Who prefers MPEG-2 on a BD-25? I've said before that it's good enough for a 5-star transfer with one of the best looking titles on either format- Crank, but I never said it should be used. Obviously, high-bitrate MPEG-4/AVC on a BD-50 is the most ideal, but there's nothing wrong with high-bitrate MPEG-2 on a BD-50. The quality of the presentation is ultimately in the compressionist's hands. But you already knew that.

Missing audio? Who's format only has 17% lossless audio tracks? That's right, HD DVD! Oh but wait, DD+ can sound EXACTLY like lossless.

cbcdesign · 10-17-2007, 08:28 AM

DD+ isn't a bad audio format in fact. It can carry up to 13 full range audio channels afterall and a data rate ten times that of DD 5.1. It may not be as good as the lossless system but it isn't anything like as bad as the blu side implies.

Stew4HD · 10-17-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

Who prefers MPEG-2 on a BD-25? I've said before that it's good enough for a 5-star transfer with one of the best looking titles on either format- Crank, but I never said it should be used. Obviously, high-bitrate MPEG-4/AVC on a BD-50 is the most ideal, but there's nothing wrong with high-bitrate MPEG-2 on a BD-50. The quality of the presentation is ultimately in the compressionist's hands. But you already knew that.

Missing audio? Who's format only has 17% lossless audio tracks? That's right, HD DVD! Oh but wait, DD+ can sound EXACTLY like lossless.

And just what makes YOU think it cannot? Oh wait, You can hear the difference, right? I would be willing to bet that IF you didn't know what the encoding was, YOU could not tell the difference. How that heck can you ever enjoy a movie when you worry/think too much abou tthe audio? "Oh well, the movie was pretty good, great story, but that soundtrack wasn't lossless." That kind of stuff makes me

Even a sound engineer has stated his opinion about encoded vs PCM.

But, it's your money and your opinion, but one not shared by many. I guess that is how you (and a handfull of other BD backers/technophiles) justify backing BD like you.. the PERFCEPTION of higher quality. I don't mean to beat on you, GLOW, but that whole line about audio (lossless vs lossy) is getting old. I don't mean the 640kbps because there is noticible difference, but DD+ vs PCM. I'm hard pressed to hear any loss of audio and I have very decent equipment.....

whew, Ok, /endrant..

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10-16-2007, 08:49 PM	#127
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,813	Nice info Boby __________________ Toshiba REGZA 46" 1080p LCD HDTV (46RF350U) - (Living Room) Toshiba REGZA 47" 1080p 240Hz LCD HDTV (47ZV650U) - (Theatre Room) Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Speakers DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10 HAF-932 Red Dragon MOD http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html

10-17-2007, 04:13 AM	#129
Stew4HD High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tejas Baby Posts: 9,184	Awash in a sea of mediocrity... How often to we get to see that word used? BobY, thanks for the catch. __________________ ___________________________________

10-17-2007, 05:41 AM	#130
Super XP Star Trek: The Movie! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, ON. Canada Posts: 5,813	Some guy wrote that HD DVD player can not play SD DVD's back in Jan 2007 This is the kind of crap going around back then. __________________ Toshiba REGZA 46" 1080p LCD HDTV (46RF350U) - (Living Room) Toshiba REGZA 47" 1080p 240Hz LCD HDTV (47ZV650U) - (Theatre Room) Toshiba HD-A35 / HD-A3 / XD-E500 LG GGC-H20L Super Multi / PC Drive Onkyo TX-SR605 7.1 TrueHD/DTS HD MA Precision Acoustics™ 8Ch. Hi Def Speakers DVD's = 200 = 130 = 10 HAF-932 Red Dragon MOD http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html

10-17-2007, 06:27 AM	#131
MARCMAK HDseeker Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 58	Too expensive, who the hell does Blueray think they are? Like we can all afford B&W 801 matrix speakers, thats what they are making the comsumers feel, BLUECRAP for the rich! Well so be it, I also hope Microsoft drops the deal with sony, and sticks with Toshiba! __________________ Current Gear: Sony STR 800 AVR 7.1 Samsung HLR 4667 HDTV Motorolla HD 6200-2 Signal Receiver Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Proscan Super VHS Project Turntable Harman Kardon Tape deck Cambridge Soundworks M-80 Speakers Cables: Tara Labs for Phono, Tape, Speakers Cables: Monster Cable, HDMI, and S-video And Verizon Fios network

10-16-2007, 04:04 PM	#123
MikeRox Blu Blu Skies! :D Join Date: May 2007 Location: Huddersfield, United Kingdom Posts: 13,442	settling for medicrity? I find HD DVD the far better format from a completion perspective. But then I have more interest in interesting (dismiss them all you want, there are some incredibly intriguing IME features now) special features than lossless audio even audiophiles seem to be struggling to notice the difference with.

10-16-2007, 08:18 PM	#126
BobY What's all this, then?... Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,197	I really have to chuckle over the Blu-Boys who decry HD DVD's "mediocrity" on paper, somehow preferring Blu-Ray's mediocrity in practice (25GB SL discs, MPEG2 encodes, missing audio capabilties, missing features, poor price/performance ratio, etc., etc.) For an objective view of HD DVD's inferiority, try: Exclusive Interview With Richard J. Casey Regarding The Format War & Nature's Journey --Hmm, a quality-fixated professional whose company depends on producing superior quality video says that when maxed out, anyone would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between Blu-Ray and HD DVD and that both look superb. But apparently mediocre

10-17-2007, 08:28 AM	#134
cbcdesign High Definition is the definition of life. Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Somerset, UK Posts: 1,333	DD+ isn't a bad audio format in fact. It can carry up to 13 full range audio channels afterall and a data rate ten times that of DD 5.1. It may not be as good as the lossless system but it isn't anything like as bad as the blu side implies.

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